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  1. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Well, I can explain it based on God's word. God's judgment and wrath are just two words describing the same events. In Revelation, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are referred to as plagues, judgments and wrath, which is speaking in regards to the unprecedented plagues of wrath that God...
  2. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Thanks for responding! You are correct in that "this verse seems to prove an action taken to shelter or protect us from it." Below is the verse: "Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you [out of] the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole...
  3. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Hello JTB, The blood on the door post was a shadow of what the Lord would do by shedding His blood for the forgiveness of sins. Our part is having faith from beginning to end. I would refer you back to Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from...
  4. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    The person that you are posting to is obviously on my ignore list. If you don't mind me asking, what is the verse in question? Is it Revelation 3:10 by any chance?
  5. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Hello Marilyn, If you are saying that we are meeting the Lord in the air and then escorting Him somewhere else other than back to heaven, then I would have to wholeheartedly disagree. When the Lord appears He will fulfill His promise in John 14:1-3. He said that He was going to the Father's...
  6. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Hi P, Sure I did. I mentioned it a couple of times by book, chapter and verse marked in red below: "In addition, the "Trumpet of God" and the "last trumpet" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52, respectively, is not the same as the "Loud Trumpet call" referred to in Matthew 24:31...
  7. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    That doesn't really explain what I was talking about. Many of the apostles claimed that it was the last days, yet here we are 2,000 years later without fulfillment of many events. As I said, the 2,300 days is from the prophesy of Antiochus Epiphanes when he desecrated the temple. It was a shadow...
  8. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Hello Blain! The reason, for the most part, is that they have adopted the false teachings of men and labeled it as God's word. We are warned about this time when people would not put up with sound doctrine: "For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching...
  9. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    So by believing the above, you are saying that you do not believe that Jesus satisfied God's wrath on our behalf and that His appearing is not imminent. The gathering of the church prior to God's wrath being poured out, is not a "man-made idea." It is from scriptural deduction that we under...
  10. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Hello RA, It is not a false premise. I am giving you the scriptural reasons as to why the church cannot go through God's wrath. Regarding Christ Isaiah says the following: "Surely He took on our infirmities and carried our sorrows; yet we considered Him stricken by God, struck down and...
  11. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Dream on regarding what?
  12. Ahwatukee

    Hello from California

    Greetings and Welcome, Gary! It seems that I have already responded to some of your posts before seeing your introduction. Welcome to Christian Chat. Look forward to seeing you out on the Forum.
  13. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Yes, I agree completely. Christ's return to gather the church has always been imminent. I've always said that if I was here during the time of God's wrath I could follow it like a road map. I would know what plague of wrath was coming next. Then after I saw the events of the 7th bowl judgment...
  14. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Well, if you have no gathering of the church prior to God's wrath, which is that entire seven years, then the only other place you can put the gathering is after God's wrath and after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. This would put the living church through the entire wrath of God...
  15. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    Well said! Not only that, but the church would be suffering the same wrath as the wicked. I think that one of the problems is that people don't understand the severity of God's coming wrath. For example, when has the world have seen demonic beings coming up out of the Abyss to torment mankind...
  16. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Hello again, You are mixing prophesies. The 2,300 days, is about 6 1/3 years. This prophecy was fulfilled before the birth of Christ, during the reign of king Antiochus IV (Epiphanes). Antiochus desecrated the temple in Jerusalem and severely persecuted the Jews from about September 171 BC to...
  17. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Hi Marilyn, The tribulation period, i.e. the seven years that were prophesied of in Daniel 9:27 will not be shortened. The seven years is divided up into two 3 1/2 year period, with the setting up of the abomination marking the middle of the seven. When Jesus says, "unless those days were...
  18. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    You still can't have the church on the earth during that time, because regardless of what Satan and the beast do, God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be taking place throughout that entire time period. Satan getting tossed out of heaven is the result of God's wrath, the...
  19. Ahwatukee

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Vs. Matthew 24:29-31

    1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with...
  20. Ahwatukee

    Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

    Your error is that you are not bringing in the other scriptures regarding God's wrath. Since God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, then the living church cannot enter into that time of wrath because we...