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No one is denying this. Sin = Death. God is holy. The wrath of God is a reality. There is a state called hell, it is permanent separation from God. My argument is what ‘permanent’ in this context, means. Permanent does not require the lost to be eternally conscious and in the same pain that a...

No you don’t! That’s the point about a parable. It uses a set of images to reveal a deeper spiritual truth. The flames and the eternal suffering are the images, the truth is the separation from God and the loss of eternal life. This is such a desperately horrible possibility that the best way of...

It seems to me that the sufferings of hell are directly related to lost opportunity - wailing and gnashing of teeth! The lost will realise what they could have had, and will be faced with NEVER having it. It’s worse than losing a winning lotto ticket. This ‘NEVER’ is what gives an eternal...

Interesting post. I had the impression that Enoch, Noah and other OT saints were selected by God because even without the spirit, they were upright and God fearing. This is why God was so pleased with them. In a way they did it in their own strength, which although isn't enough to earn...

We also found Is 26:18-19, Septuagint Daniel 12:2-3, Septuagint Both of which offer the promise. My question wasn't a trick. I just didn't know the bible well enough!

Actually trofimus solved the problem. The promise of eternal life is made in the prophets - see his post.

Our experience of time is NOT illusory. Past, present and future are real. Time has an arrow, there really are one way physical processes. Mathemarically, it doesn’t have to be this way, but mathematics is not physics. Not everything modelled in mathematics corresponds to physical reality...

Actually science, by which I mean the consensus among scientists based on published and proved material, does not believe 'the essence of time is non existent'. Nor would science endorse you keyboard theory. Science makes no comment about life after death. Philosophical questions, like 'why do...

I hope you watched the video. It shows that time most definitely does exist. The point about past, present and future being an illusion is only from the global perspective. For any individual, time, with it's past, present and future are the familiar reality that we all know. But from a global...

I think you’ve cracked it, trofimus! These are general promises! Thanks very much.

I challenge you to send me a link where any scientist is proposing that time does not exist!

My friend, there are individual scientists and doctors who will say anything. What do you think? Does this idea sound reasonable to you?

And what was this hope based on?

True. But after the fall, is there any reason a person under the old covenant could expect eternal life? Or was this promise hidden until Christ was revealed?

I don’t think I explained my question clearly enough. I was asking whether under the old covenant, I had any OT promise to give me hope of eternal life. See my comments lower down.

Exactly. I think the old covenant saints inferred it from their experience. It seems most people believed they woukd end up in Sheol.

Well, if what you can draw is to be the arbiter of truth, then we seem to have adandoned reason altogether. So, you are saying before man, the animals were all frozen like statues, since events could not procede from one another. Einstein would certainly find your comment very strange, as would...

Exactly! I don’t know. I am asking. I can’t find the promise, but I could easily have missed it or failed to infer it.

Certainly eternal life was offered in Christ. My question is whether this was known before Christ was revealed. Is there a universal promise that fallen man under the old covenant, had any hope of eternal life?

But if you only had the OT, would you be able to say that God offered you eternal life. God’s love may br forever, but that does not mean you will live for ever to enjoy it.