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God will send trouble upon Jacob, but He will also send them the 2 witnesses and 12000 witness's from each of the 12 tribes, there will be great trouble and revival along side each other.

My guess is you already know the pre-trib view point of this, so my challenge to you is, just to be open minded and to see if when you combine all the verses of the bible together form either post or pre trib, to see if it does line up. Verse 30 of Matt 24, (immediately after the tribulation)...

I try and read the passages without bias, or looking at it from a pre trib or post trib point of view, (I know no one actually does this, but I try) but pre-trib does seem to have clarity and answers while the post trib view has a lot of un-answered questions. Yet I believe if I don't see...

If you somehow stay a float and survive the judgment of the flood that God used on unbelieving mankind, would be the more parallel scenario

Agreed, and another reason post trib makes zero sense, if all believers are raptured and are clothed in immortality, when the Lord arrives to set up His kingdom in Israel, there are no longer any mortal saints left to enter the kingdom, which means no aging or children for they shall be like...

I don't really have view on Enoch and Elijah, I don't know the how and why they went to heaven. I view the others of faith as going down to Sheol or Abrahams Bosom, when the Lord died He also went down there, and emptied the place out. This is a brief glimpse of how I imagine or guess the Good...

Disagree, I think its talking about being changed into our immortal bodies, not preceding them means they are resurrected first then we are transformed/changed in the twinkling of an eye. Then we go to meet the Lord. And with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we...

When we are caught up together with the resurrected dead, at the same time, shows we do not precede them or go first. Resurrection literally means to stand up again, Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection and is the pattern for the resurrection, that is coming out of the grave to stand...

1cor 1:12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ," What a condemnation against those at Corinth, for some to say that they follow only after certain ones, all scripture is for us, and all scripture presents the one...

So we both see those that are asleep in Christ are in heaven and are not resurrected yet. Then we both see that Christ descends from heaven with a shout and the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord. The difference...

Not how I see it, I see us as expediently waiting to be raptured at any moment, to be changed in the twinkling of an eye, meaning we put on our immortal bodies and go to be with the Lord. Paul is telling us (those who believe in a pre-trib rapture, because he presumes we agree with him for this...

Not to belabour any thing, But a lot of what you say is also true from looking at it from my perspective, if I can explain the Lords coming like a train coming. The train pulls into London(clouds) and stops and loads up with its passengers on route to its destination Glasgow(earth) It is a 7hr...

Thanks for your explanation of your position, even though I may disagree I still enjoyed reading your previous post, I don't have to agree to still enjoy seeing how others view scripture, and one of the points I obviously I may have trouble agreeing with is apparently obvious to you as well as...

Thanks, I can understand how you can see it that way, but I can also see the ambiguity of these verses means it can be taken either way, for instance notice in verse 1 it we are given the topic of our gathering/rapture to Jesus. Now brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and...

My understanding of what the bible says, is that there will be a resurrection of all those who are asleep in Christ(dead past saints) and also those of us who are currently alive changed, and then we will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air! I was just wondering when you thought...

As the husband it is my responsibility to make all the important decisions, of course my wife tells me what decisions are important :sneaky:

With the resurrected saints that come with Him, When does He catch them up to himself? just before He arrives on earth, an hour beforehand, 3 1/2 years before or seven years before?

Exactly. the rapture is something to look forward to, its a blessing, we are to wait expectantly for His coming, He who testifies to these things says, "Surly I am coming quickly" Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! Rev 22:20 or elsewhere, Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our...

Yes, and we fear not for Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come.

Understandable, The Day of the Lord is linked to the 7 years of tribulation and the wrath, and also His second coming, and agree the rapture is a separate event, which is the whole reason for the writing of the epistle to the Thessalonians, to me they thought they were in the tribulation period...