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I'm not so much into saying what God can or cannot do to bushes and new suits. :D I'm more into fitting the verses into place without declaring what God can and can't do, rather than remaining in a confusion of suppositions and speculations.

This is very intriguing and we can definitely look into it! Why would God call the lake of fire by that name in one place and call the lake of fire the outer darkness in another place and call the lake of fire "hell" in yet another place? As to the wailing and gnashing of teeth...(I love...

Well the "fear", to my mind, is speaking of a fear on the part of the one doing the pulling out of the fire. It doesn't read to me as meaning: put them in fear. As to your next paragraph, I have a funny thought. I think you will see the humor in it. If dead can mean eternally alive, then...

I don't know that many will be able to understand what I'm saying here, but I'm pretty sure at least pennEd will. The famous verse in Isaiah which Jesus read aloud. He stopped in midverse because the fulfillment was at that time occurring only for the first part. But it reads as if the verse is...

I don't believe we are, UNTIL we are given Gods' Spirit.

Yes, that's the other verse that was earlier brought up that needs to be fit in too. He brings him to ashes upon the earth and he shall never be any more. It seems to my mind to war with being in torment forever. That is why I said I thought the two verses were speaking of different points in...

I believe it IS a vital issue. I've heard unbelievers say they do not and cannot believe in a God who is supposedly merciful causing unbelievers to be tortured and tormented for all of eternity. They want no part of a God who is portrayed as being so angry at sin that He causes men to live...

We are completely on the same page as far as seeing the discrepancies. Our difference is that I see both sides as having them and you only see the one side having them. :)

Agreed. We already do have an example of a seemingly imperishable being - satan. I just think we've somehow assumed we are like him in that respect.

The only instance of the actual showing of "a greater damnation" that I have seen is the unholy trinity being "in torment forever and ever" versus the later phrase for others, "this is the second death."

I don't think this is sensical or should be kept as any kind of strong point in the debate. It's like...oh, God yelled at you worse before He perished you forever so you are worse off! :LOL:

But I do think it would be a worse plight to be one of the unholy trinity and be in torment forever and ever and it would be a better plight to be forever put out of misery by perishing.

And I'm well aware that the " it will be worse for so and so on the day of judgement" needs to be fit into the equation. I cannot fit it in yet.

If you could give the verses you use to arrive at some part of them that's indestructible or else it would be impossible God to resurrect them, I would listen.

I agree. That's what I see too - that all will be resurrected - some to eternal life and some to a second death.

The way I see it, either it was translated wrong or I just don't understand English.

I honestly haven't seen that. I have seen verses brought up that don't specifically state it, and I've been told that God expects us to make the deduction, but I haven't seen a clear verse that says men are born with eternal life of any sort. One man recently stated that the we are said to be...

I really, really like to hear your take on verses even though they don't always match with what I see when I read. :) I do see the verse differently. Rather than a statement that all men are eternal beings, I see it more like...there is something in men that desires to not die and to live...

Everyone does.. So apparently everyone dies and everyone lives forever and no one dies a second death.

Bedtime here. As always, great conversation. At least until ben made my head explode. :LOL: Night, Ben. :) You owe me a bottle of Aleve.