A call for unity and love

[Jordon]

Yes but knowing something beforhand is different from causing and dictating it against the Will of the subjects . He has foreknowledge indeed that’s biblical

I understand that so many people equate this fallacy but then project it in to what you must be meaning,

It's quite a common miss understanding I think, especially made more so by miss interpretation,

From my perspective a persons fait being decided before there born has nothing to do with prediction or control a person life or interfering with there there own choice .

It simply has to do with God knowing the future and for knowing each and every person and that's it friend, as his eyes go before me and you and everyone, as the holy bible declares his eyes go before us friend.

 

[Magenta]

2 Chronicles 16::9a The eyes of the LORD roam to and fro over all the earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are fully devoted to Him.

 

[Jordon]

May I aid add it has nothing to with God interfering with a person life to, or as other absurd fallacies go pre determination from God, nope not that either with.

To be clear it only had to with how well God foreknew you, peace and blessings

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I understand that so many people equate this fallacy but then project it in to what you must be meaning,

It's quite a common miss understanding I think, especially made more so by miss interpretation,

From my perspective a persons fait being decided before there born has nothing to do with prediction or control a person life or interfering with there there own choice .

It simply has to do with God knowing the future and for knowing each and every person and that's it friend, as his eyes go before me and you and everyone, as the holy bible declares his eyes go before us friend.

yeah I agree God foreknows things

“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My view is That’s God speaking from foreknowledge informing man of the certain danger in his presence

Which what I’m saying is that’s different fromGod dictating what they do and causing thier decisions and actions .

 

[Ouch]

I wanted to sort of make a reminder that we as brothers and sisters in Christ are called for unity and love for one another. I am aware there are differences in opinions and doctrinal understanding but we can disagree with love

Certain topics such as free will and predestination and the likes tend to bring out strife among us

1 Thessalonians 5:11 emphasizes mutual encouragement and building up, saying, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing". Romans 14:19 highlights the pursuit of peace and building up, stating, "Let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding". Hebrews 3:13 encourages daily encouragement to prevent hardening of hearts, urging, "But encourage one another daily

I would love nothing more than to see this with each other and to see this site become one of love and light a reminder of what Christs love does in the hearts of those who carry his name

Yes Sir, I agree. The problems roots are real deep.

We have GODS word which we do not need to interpret it says what it says.

But men for thousands of years think they know better or just don't like the rules, thus so many different denominations.

People can get others to follow them whatever they are selling.

If we all just as little children follow what HIS rule book says we could all get along.

I myself will not accept anything someone says it true if they can't back it up with scripture.

I for sure don't know everything and I don't know anyone who does so we all can learn, but it has to be FROM JESUS not man.

The question is, is it love shaing HIS word and and asking others to prove what they say, or tell someone that is not in HIS word.

Or is it love just letting people follow man with their opinions and their twist on HIS word, with out a challenge?

Our lives depend on it, eternity is a long time.

 

[Blain]

Yes Sir, I agree. The problems roots are real deep.

We have GODS word which we do not need to interpret it says what it says.

But men for thousands of years think they know better or just don't like the rules, thus so many different denominations.

People can get others to follow them whatever they are selling.

If we all just as little children follow what HIS rule book says we could all get along.

I myself will not accept anything someone says it true if they can't back it up with scripture.

I for sure don't know everything and I don't know anyone who does so we all can learn, but it has to be FROM JESUS not man.

The question is, is it love shaing HIS word and and asking others to prove what they say, or tell someone that is not in HIS word.

Or is it love just letting people follow man with their opinions and their twist on HIS word, with out a challenge?

Our lives depend on it, eternity is a long time.

Yes exactly and this is what I have been trying to get people to understand thank you my friend it is good to see someone gets it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

May I aid add it has nothing to with God interfering with a person life to, or as other absurd fallacies go pre determination from God, nope not that either with.

To be clear it only had to with how well God foreknew you, peace and blessings

Yeah I agreed with you

 

[Jordon]

yeah I agree God foreknows things

“And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My view is That’s God speaking from foreknowledge informing man of the certain danger in his presence

Which what I’m saying is that’s different fromGod dictating what they do and causing thier decisions and actions .

The trouble is with coming to understanding and agreement with a topic like this, is there's so many ways a passage can be interpreted, not to mention that before the fall, one idea I heard which could or could not be true that mankind, being Adam and eve, where not out side of time.

That when they where banished from he garden they where where also put outside of God's time.

It's s mystery that one, but where you have conflicting passages it would be foolish to disregard one over the other for favour of opinion or belief so I'll give it to God and sleep on it

Yes but the scripture you posted again for me is God giving people the opportunity to change there destiny.

Peace and grace to you friend.

Bye for now.

 

[Jordon]

Yeah I agreed with you

always nice to find agreement, would like to know if you believe that God knew Adam would eat from the tree or are you unsure ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The trouble is with coming to understanding and agreement with a topic like this, is there's so many ways a passage can be interpreted, not to mention that before the fall, one idea I heard which could or could not be true that mankind, being Adam and eve, where not out side of time.

That when they where banished from he garden they where where also put outside of God's time.

It's s mystery that one, but where you have conflicting passages it would be foolish to disregard one over the other for favour of opinion or belief so I'll give it to God and sleep on it

Yes but the scripture you posted again for me is God giving people the opportunity to change there destiny.

Peace and grace to you friend.

Bye for now.

“Yes but the scripture you posted again for me is God giving people the opportunity to change their destiny.”

yes I agree but I would say he’s presenting the opportunity to choose between two fixed destinations

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Jordon]

“Yes but the scripture you posted again for me is God giving people the opportunity to change their destiny.”

yes I agree but I would say he’s presenting the opportunity to choose between two fixed destinations

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I can't see an answer here from you to my question as you've repeated what I said in the first paragraph, this scripture relating to choosing you posted, do you believe it's solely relating to a person choosing his own destiny.? or could it be relating to the choice God gives every one,

For instant God spoke to Adam and he left him a choice, and to put it mildly the choice was choose life or death.

Would you think it's not best to automatically think actually it's only about us choosing, if you can understand where I'm coming from here, that we see God giving people the opportunity to choose, because this is another instance of the bible where God is for knowing an individual,

So can you just choose without being given the choice, and then hopefully see that choosing isn't just about making a choice whenever, the predeterminist just solely base it this way.

Will they get a choice if there not predestined ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

always nice to find agreement, would like to know if you believe that God knew Adam would eat from the tree or are you unsure ?

i do , yes . I believe God knew they would eventually be tempted and eat the fruit . I believe that’s why he gave them the commandment, so that when they did it they would become aware of themselves being the creation and God being the creator . Aware of his holiness tbat is above all

and then after they fell he could give them the knowledge of sin nder penalty of death and then he could fulfill his ultimate plan of exalting Jesus Christ the son of man , and raise him up so we can all be made in his image and live with him as family forever

i believe what’s began in genesis 1 will ultimately be fulfilled in revelation 21 his plan came from his foreknowledge of the outcome of good and evil in man

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I can't see an answer here from you to my question as you've repeated what I said in the first paragraph, this scripture relating to choosing you posted, do you believe it's solely relating to a person choosing his own destiny.? or could it be relating to the choice God gives every one,

For instant God spoke to Adam and he left him a choice, and to put it mildly the choice was choose life or death.

Would you think it's not best to automatically think actually it's only about us choosing, if you can understand where I'm coming from here, that we see God giving people the opportunity to choose, because this is another instance of the bible where God is for knowing an individual,

So can you just choose without being given the choice, and then hopefully see that choosing isn't just about making a choice whenever, the predeterminist just solely base it this way.

Will they get a choice if there not predestined ?

“do you believe it's solely relating to a person choosing his own destiny.? or could it be relating to the choice God gives every one,”

im quoting this ^ from you because that’s the part I’m trying to address so you understand the part I’m replying to sorry for the confusion .

Solely ? No of course not I believe God first made a way for anyone to be saved any one of his created people because he so loved us that much ( his creation I mean by us ) even though we corrupted and ruined everything he still loves the good of humanity is my position

In the gospel he declared mercy upon them and said anyone that believe the gospel ( the work I have done to save anyone that believes ) shall be saved


So my position is God is the source who made a way that us imperfect sinners can repent and be saved through fait and by his grace ( doing what he did in the gospel and teaching what he taught in the gospel but we have to act upon it ….

 

[GWH]

The trouble is with coming to understanding and agreement with a topic like this, is there's so many ways a passage can be interpreted, not to mention that before the fall, one idea I heard which could or could not be true that mankind, being Adam and eve, where not out side of time.

That when they where banished from he garden they where where also put outside of God's time.

It's s mystery that one, but where you have conflicting passages it would be foolish to disregard one over the other for favour of opinion or belief so I'll give it to God and sleep on it

Yes but the scripture you posted again for me is God giving people the opportunity to change there destiny.

Peace and grace to you friend.

Bye for now.

Re "there's so many ways a passage can be interpreted": Yes, due to MFW,
and GRFS is seeking/loving its Truth.

 

[Blain]

Re "there's so many ways a passage can be interpreted": Yes, due to MFW,
and GRFS is seeking/loving its Truth.

what do those abbreviations mean?

 

[Ouch]

Yes exactly and this is what I have been trying to get people to understand thank you my friend it is good to see someone gets it.

Thank you, I would also will add if people are debating use HIS word more than their own opinion's.

When we use HIS word we have ONE foundation, how many different opinions are there?

Debates would be a lot easier if we know what is on people mind and where they get their information.

I was debating one one person and he based his foundation on GotQuestions.org, well S. Michael Houdmann is he CEO of GotQuestions.org. So he was deepening on Michael not JESUS.

Here is a for instance, I call Paul a doctor in Acts 19

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul asked a question, heard the reply and asked another question, heard the reply and diagnosed the problem and told them what they must do to fixe the problem.

On the other side, people were asked a question and they answered the questions, they were humble to Paul's words and obeyed him.

So I like to ask questions to get to the root of the problem.

I was listening to this one person, he said water baptized was replaced with spirit baptism.

I asked him to 1. to prove it and 2. how do we get rid of our sins?

NEVER GOT AN ANSWER and down the rabbit HOLES we went for days, and nothing was resolved.

BUT seeds were planted and with this guy maybe needs some water and more seeds? JESUS is the one who gives in increase.

 

[GWH]

what do those abbreviations mean?

Acronyms used in website: GW = God’s Word (Scripture), OT = Old Testament (Covenant), NT = New Testament, GN, EX, LV, NM, DT;MT, MK, ACTS, RM, 1CR, etc. = bible books, LGW = learn/ing GW, HS = Holy Spirit, JC = Jesus Christ (or Christ Jesus), TOJ = teachings of Jesus, TOP = teachings of Paul (& Peter), POS = plan of salvation, GRFS = God’s requirement for salvation, MFW = moral free will (volition), KOTH = king of the hill (struggle), PP = propensity principle (logical reasons to believe in God), UMI = universal moral imperative (God’s will), DOD = duo of desirables (heaven & hell), TULIP = God forces some sinners to do His will, KOG/H = kingdom of God/heaven, SOP = God’s standard (normative) operating procedure, RC = Roman Catholicism, RE/BE = Roman/Byzantine empire or emperor, EP = evangelical protestant.

 

[Jordon]

“do you believe it's solely relating to a person choosing his own destiny.? or could it be relating to the choice God gives every one,”

im quoting this ^ from you because that’s the part I’m trying to address so you understand the part I’m replying to sorry for the confusion .

Solely ? No of course not I believe God first made a way for anyone to be saved any one of his created people because he so loved us that much ( his creation I mean by us ) even though we corrupted and ruined everything he still loves the good of humanity is my position

In the gospel he declared mercy upon them and said anyone that believe the gospel ( the work I have done to save anyone that believes ) shall be saved


So my position is God is the source who made a way that us imperfect sinners can repent and be saved through fait and by his grace ( doing what he did in the gospel and teaching what he taught in the gospel but we have to act upon it ….

Understood, it's always good to find out our beliefs and understandings, as your right there's so much confusion, I always find getting into a discussion about personal belief should always be on the bases you can trust and have reassurance from the person your talking with concerning your faith and understandings, , it's always good when you can find confidence in people, especially in matters like this.

These subjects are so sensitive to people.

 

[Ouch]

Acronyms used in website: GW = God’s Word (Scripture), OT = Old Testament (Covenant), NT = New Testament, GN, EX, LV, NM, DT;MT, MK, ACTS, RM, 1CR, etc. = bible books, LGW = learn/ing GW, HS = Holy Spirit, JC = Jesus Christ (or Christ Jesus), TOJ = teachings of Jesus, TOP = teachings of Paul (& Peter), POS = plan of salvation, GRFS = God’s requirement for salvation, MFW = moral free will (volition), KOTH = king of the hill (struggle), PP = propensity principle (logical reasons to believe in God), UMI = universal moral imperative (God’s will), DOD = duo of desirables (heaven & hell), TULIP = God forces some sinners to do His will, KOG/H = kingdom of God/heaven, SOP = God’s standard (normative) operating procedure, RC = Roman Catholicism, RE/BE = Roman/Byzantine empire or emperor, EP = evangelical protestant.

Thank you, can you tell us how to find this info on this site for future Please.

 

[Blain]

Thank you, I would also will add if people are debating use HIS word more than their own opinion's.

When we use HIS word we have ONE foundation, how many different opinions are there?

Debates would be a lot easier if we know what is on people mind and where they get their information.

I was debating one one person and he based his foundation on GotQuestions.org, well S. Michael Houdmann is he CEO of GotQuestions.org. So he was deepening on Michael not JESUS.

Here is a for instance, I call Paul a doctor in Acts 19

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Paul asked a question, heard the reply and asked another question, heard the reply and diagnosed the problem and told them what they must do to fixe the problem.

On the other side, people were asked a question and they answered the questions, they were humble to Paul's words and obeyed him.

So I like to ask questions to get to the root of the problem.

I was listening to this one person, he said water baptized was replaced with spirit baptism.

I asked him to 1. to prove it and 2. how do we get rid of our sins?

NEVER GOT AN ANSWER and down the rabbit HOLES we went for days, and nothing was resolved.

BUT seeds were planted and with this guy maybe needs some water and more seeds? JESUS is the one who gives in increase.

The issue I see most in debates is that everyone goes into debates to prove something not learn and many have opinions on what scripture says but that is all it is their opinions scripture can be twisted to say anything we want but if we just take it at face value and let go of our ego then it is clear what it is saying

But we have to understand that debates are not to argue with one another but to learn and to teach each other