A covenant is a promise. Did God cancel His first promise?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#1
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
777
303
63
#2
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
No. There has always been the fact/promise that a new and better way would come. The Levitical priesthood and system became obsolete.God promised not to flood the earth again..It still stands. God promised Israel its full land grant......it still stands. God promised that Israel will be His people.....It still stands. And many more
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#3
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
When my children were young I promised to always hold their hand when crossing the street. As they grew, they matured enough to cross by themselves. Did I break the promise I made to them as children by letting them cross by themselves?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#4
I also put them in a crib as part of my promise to keep them safe at night. When they outgrew the crib did I curse the crib? NO. It served it's purpose. It was sacred to me for a season and then the season changed.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#5
When something is marked as "obsolete" do you still invest in it? If so, there are thousands of iPhone 11 sellers who want to speak to you now!

Or, when something is marked as "obsolete" do you invest in the thing that is new?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
#6
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
A covenant is not a "promise" though the concepts are distantly related.

Israel broke the first covenant. God initiated the new covenant in Christ's blood. We Christians are under the new covenant, not the old/first/Sinai covenant.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#7
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He kept the covenant he made with them

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. ….Nevertheless the LORD raised up judges, which delivered them out of the hand of those that spoiled them. And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so.

And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way.

And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and he said, Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice; I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: that through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-12, 16-17, 19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭

It could be a blessing or a curse if they broke it that’s what he said to them repeatedly in the law. They could inherit a kingdom and be the ruling nation and have the most glorious city on earth God would dwell among them if they obeyed his covenant they made and agreed to fully obey but if they broke it he said it would be a curse a terrible one thank goodness he promised a new covenant that wasn’t broken and cursed

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

dearest sister
To understand a covenant You need to acknolwedge the things he said in a covenant when he made it it’s based upon what he said to them.

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:…..( one of the longest chapters in the Bible ) The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15, 21‬ ‭

that’s one of about a hundred individual curses if they broke the covenant anything he says is true whether blessing or curse a warning or reward

thier covenant is based on all the words of the covenant between God and the people he made the covenant with

another at Sinai at horeb and here also

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭29:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And in it have I put the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, that he made with the children of Israel.”
‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭6:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Just As the gospel is based upon what Jesus said who preached it to those it was given to

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We as Christian’s aren’t trying to inherit the war torn land of Israel or Jerusalem we are believing the promises Jesus and his apostles made and preached to all people promising everlasting life

Its not bad to acknolwedge that isreal
Broke thier covenant and the curses came upon them but he made a new covenant with them in the gospel when he came as promised

Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4‬ ‭
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,721
596
113
#8
Thread title
A covenant is a promise. Did God cancel His first promise?

I think there is a little difference between Covenant and a Promise --when it comes to God's Word

God's Covenants are agreements ----there are 2 parties involved in God Making His Covenants ----and it is kind of like a legal binding agreement ----where if one party breaks the Covenant there are consequences ----

God made a covenant with Adam -----eat of any tree in the garden but do not eat of the tree of Good and Evil ----Adam broke the Covenant and paid the price ------

God made a Covenant with Noah---- that he was to build the Ark and God would save his family from the flood ----2 parties involved ---if Noah fails to keep the Covenant --he and his family drown in the flood --

God made a Covenant with Abraham -----Abraham had to leave His country and go to the land God showed him ----and God said He would make Him a Father of many nations ------

God made a Covenant with Israel ------at Mount Sinai ----they were to be obedient to the 10 commandments --

God made a New Covenant Of Grace ------This Covenant was on sided -----Jesus was the only participant to bring this New Covenant into effect -----so there is no need for any other Covenant ----this is the last Covenant ever -----


A Promise is an assurance that one will do something -----it is one sided -----there is nothing legally binding the person to keep the promise -----a Promise holds no power over the person to keep it ----

so there is a little difference in a Covenant versus a Promise --I think


So are all God's old Covenants still in play ---I don't think so ------I think when God Makes a New Covenant the old is phased out ---

As Far as God's Promises go --He will never renege on Any of His Promises -----so there is no worries about that for His True Children
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
857
102
43
#9
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
No. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 33:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant includes everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). This is why the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10), plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). Likewise, in Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Torah in connection with the promise.
 
Feb 21, 2016
848
196
43
#10
No. There has always been the fact/promise that a new and better way would come. The Levitical priesthood and system became obsolete.God promised not to flood the earth again..It still stands. God promised Israel its full land grant......it still stands. God promised that Israel will be His people.....It still stands. And many more
The promise to the Levites having a everlasting priesthood carries on through Gods remnant.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#11
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
Jesus Yeshua came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. It should now be on the hearts of all who have been made anew.
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
275
119
43
70
#12
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
Thus saith the Lord; I will make a new covenant with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, not like the covenant that I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt, which my covenant they broke even though I was a husband unto them. But I will make a new covenant after those days with the house of Judah, saith the Lord, and I will put my laws into their hearts and minds and they shall be my people and I will be their God. No more shall every man say to his neighbor and unto his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest. And I will forgive their iniquities and their sins will I remember no more.

For if the blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of a heffer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. For this reason, he is the mediator of the new testament that by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Jesus came to fulfil the law.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#13
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
I do not think you get it.....The First Covenant was "The Promise to Abraham" not the Law which Gal 3 tells us was added 430 years after "The Promise". So, why did Paul use "New Covenant" when talking unto the Jews? Because all they understood was "THE SHADOW" the Law of Moses which pointed unto The Promise, that was what all the Sacrifices pointed unto !! So, to them it was a different or New Covenant, but in reality the Promise of Jesus was the Original Covenant. Here is what made iy somewhat new, it CAME TO PASS, now 24/7/365 we had a High Priest in heaven in Jesus and access to forgiveness at any time via the blood of Jesus. So, the only real difference was, on the other side of the cross the Promise was FULFILLED. The Law was only a Schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ Jesus. Once the promise comes, the schoolmaster is no longer needed read Gal 3, its very, very clear.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#14
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
No. God already promised the New Covenant because Israel failed to follow the Old Covenant. Keep on reading Hebrews.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#15
Jesus Yeshua also taught how the law should be understood. By so doing He made most of them obsolete, but not the ones which stand. Knowing His teaching will clarify all.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,319
6,647
113
62
#16
Thread title
A covenant is a promise. Did God cancel His first promise?

I think there is a little difference between Covenant and a Promise --when it comes to God's Word

God's Covenants are agreements ----there are 2 parties involved in God Making His Covenants ----and it is kind of like a legal binding agreement ----where if one party breaks the Covenant there are consequences ----

God made a covenant with Adam -----eat of any tree in the garden but do not eat of the tree of Good and Evil ----Adam broke the Covenant and paid the price ------

God made a Covenant with Noah---- that he was to build the Ark and God would save his family from the flood ----2 parties involved ---if Noah fails to keep the Covenant --he and his family drown in the flood --

God made a Covenant with Abraham -----Abraham had to leave His country and go to the land God showed him ----and God said He would make Him a Father of many nations ------

God made a Covenant with Israel ------at Mount Sinai ----they were to be obedient to the 10 commandments --

God made a New Covenant Of Grace ------This Covenant was on sided -----Jesus was the only participant to bring this New Covenant into effect -----so there is no need for any other Covenant ----this is the last Covenant ever -----


A Promise is an assurance that one will do something -----it is one sided -----there is nothing legally binding the person to keep the promise -----a Promise holds no power over the person to keep it ----

so there is a little difference in a Covenant versus a Promise --I think


So are all God's old Covenants still in play ---I don't think so ------I think when God Makes a New Covenant the old is phased out ---

As Far as God's Promises go --He will never renege on Any of His Promises -----so there is no worries about that for His True Children
The new covenant does have 2 parties...God the Father and God the Son.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#17
The new covenant does have 2 parties...God the Father and God the Son.
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
#18
Scripture tells us in Hebrews 8:13: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Does this mean that God has broken his first promise?
if somebody ever arose who was able to keep the law perfectly then the promise would be in effect.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#19
The new covenant does have 2 parties...God the Father and God the Son.
Yes! Abraham was a Third Party Beneficiary: Like children who benefit from the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman.

This is why the Father Son covenant is so secure: neither the Father nor the Son can lie, nor can their word diminish. This serves as an anchor to our souls.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#20
if somebody ever arose who was able to keep the law perfectly then the promise would be in effect.


“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. ( before the law)


Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come ( jesus ) to whom the promise was made;


and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16, 18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The promise isn’t the law it’s the spirit

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬