I believe it was the beginnings of a straw man argument, as some others also tried to build at the beginning of the thread.
A Jew is not one outwardly, but inward
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Viligant_Warrior
Guest
And as I said in another post, you proved nothing taking a Scripture out of context that does not say what you so desperately want it to say. You are the liar. And myopic, as I addressed my previous response directly to you. I've heard of selective hearing ... you have the first case of selective seeing I've ever come across.What he said is an outright lie, I proved it by scripture. Here is his comment....
Originally Posted by Viligant_Warrior
"Disobedience is part of still living in the flesh for all of God's children. Grace keeps us in Him despite that disobedience."[end quote]
Here is the proof of the lie....
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
We who preach unmerited Salvation by grace do not believe that believers continue to habitually sin or have any license to sin.
The essential difference in outlook between those under Law and those under grace is that those who are under law generally take prideful credit for their obedience (which isn't what they think it is); while we, who are under grace, attribute our obedience to God working in us to will and to do His good pleasure.
Php 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV
We do not argue whether obedience should be present in the life of a believer. we argue over who should get the credit for our obedience.
The essential difference in outlook between those under Law and those under grace is that those who are under law generally take prideful credit for their obedience (which isn't what they think it is); while we, who are under grace, attribute our obedience to God working in us to will and to do His good pleasure.
Php 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
KJV
We do not argue whether obedience should be present in the life of a believer. we argue over who should get the credit for our obedience.
That comment was a separate post # 33...That was a comment to all who think that Grace is a license to sin.
J
JesusIsAll
Guest
The "license to sin" is the straw man. No Christian is advocating for sin, teaching to sin. Nobody is ever saying this here. They are constantly accusing others of sin they are even more guilty of than common sin, the state of the flesh, that is, teaching lying gospels. This is the mother of all sins, the snake in the Garden, the false prophet, with their false gospels of doubt in salvation and the need for self-righteousness of some cult gospel.
The attack is always against grace itself and the sufficiency of the gospel of grace, by faith in Jesus Christ, to save and sanctify, the attack against the believer's assurance of salvation, seeding doubt, and, always, as if the work of the Holy Spirit and walking in the light of that Spirit, the power of very God in believers, isn't even a factor. They seed doubt, and speak as the dead they are.
Your left off this part:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! [SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin [SUP][j][/SUP]resulting in death, or of obedience [SUP][k][/SUP]resulting in righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But thanks be to God that [SUP][l][/SUP]though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, [SUP][m][/SUP]resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, [SUP][n][/SUP]resulting in sanctification.
and then there is this
Romans 6.1-6:
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have become [SUP][a][/SUP]united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be [SUP][b][/SUP]in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old [SUP][c][/SUP]self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be [SUP][d][/SUP]done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; [SUP]7 [/SUP]for he who has died is [SUP][e][/SUP]freed from sin.
If you continue in your thought that Romans is a book of SIN and not a Book of GRACE you will never see it. If you continue to think Romans is about personal performance and not position in Christ, then you are missing the greatest way to freedom recorded in the Bible.
I do not SIN nor do I have a license to SIN because of Grace, just as Paul records 2 times in Romans 6.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
I believe it was the beginnings of a straw man argument, as some others also tried to build at the beginning of the thread.
These are the exact verses you posted with no words really from yourself (everything stripped away) this is what verses you posted
Romans 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew,
which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart,
in the spirit, and not in the letter;
whose praise is not of men,
but of God.
For they are not
all Israel,
which are of Israel.
Romans 9:6-9[SUP]
[/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect.
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham,
are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is,
They which are the children of the flesh,
these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Promise of the Father is the seal of the Holy Spirit....
nothing to do with flesh and blood,
but rather the children of faith are counted for the seed.
Galations 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith,
the same are the children of Abraham.
1 Corinth 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,
whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free;
and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Me....
Nothing but arguing over these verses, which speak to inward circumcision by the Spirit, being called in the Son of the Promise (Christ born by the Spirit) and of the children of God, even the children of the promise (the Holy Ghost) which we are also told are counted for Abrahams seed (which seed is Jesis Christ). These who are of the faith and of the two together (both Jew and Greek) made one (In Christ) by one Spirit to drink.
J
JesusIsAll
Guest
As to righteousness, we can only approach God clothed in His righteousness, that IS the righteousness of Jesus Christ, imputed by grace through faith. There is no other door to salvation. There is no gospel of man's righteousness. This is merely Pharisaical self righteousness, a delusion.
or we give him and desired haven the benefit of the doubt and state they simply have no understanding of grace or this:
JESUS + NOTHING=EVERYTHING!
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
Heres where I quoted it from
Here
I have posted on this part on many threads before what I did was simply agree in a line to another persons line.
We both can read that part it is clearly from
I dont have any problem with the scriptures
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
Thats how I took it you were saying to all who might think grace is a licsense to sin and again you get attacked, and even if I quote a verse to your words (just to agree with the words) you get a lecture on the context when you dont have a problem with either the context or the scriptures, its a mess...
I took nothing out of context. What you said is a direct contradiction of what the scriptures plainly say. If you cannot see that then you are blind.
Their aggression towards those who speak out against sin and false doctrine speaks volumes.
You only stated Romans 8.13, yet to understand 13, you gotta start with vs 12 then go to vs 17:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you are living according to the flesh, you [SUP][f][/SUP]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For you have not received a spirit of slavery [SUP][g][/SUP]leading to fear again, but you have received [SUP][h][/SUP]a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
You took it completely out of context to the discussion.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
Now let me try my Amen (to what you said) once again, but in this way
Aand THEN stree what Paul said (in agreement) with you that grace is not a license to sin, in showing he has asked this question
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law,
but under grace? God forbid.
I thought I should redo my amen by showing the context I can see after 25 years in Christ and then going from there (in case you are wondering why I repeated my amen to you) because Im supposedly doing that wrong according to its context (somewheres)