Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[kinda]

O.k., below is a google search on why some believe SDA is a cult.

To have a fair discussion, I think it would be reasonable to address the three points, that this search has brought, and maybe confirm or deny. I personally think it's just a hatred of God's Commandments, I can't think of any other reason to be honest, but let's humor the argument.

1. Keeping Sabbath
2. Investigative Judgement
3. Is Ellen White a Prophet?

I think this would make a good discussion here, that totally relates to the thread.

"The Seventh day Adventist Church (SDA) is sometimes labeled a cult due to its unique beliefs, historical context, and the perception of its practices compared to mainstream Christianity.

Historical​

The SDA Church emerged in the mid-19th century, following the "Great Disappointment" when William Miller's prediction of Christ's return failed. This led to the formation of the church by figures like Joseph Bates and Ellen White, who claimed to have received prophetic visions. Critics argue that the church's origins in failed prophecies contribute to its cult-like perception.

Grace Evangelical Society

Unique​

1. Sabbath Observance: Adventists observe the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, which they believe is a commandment from God. This strict adherence to Sabbath observance sets them apart from many other Christian denominations.
   
   1
2. Investigative Judgment: This doctrine, unique to Adventism, posits that Christ is currently judging the lives of believers in heaven. Critics argue that this belief is not biblically supported and contributes to the perception of SDA as a cult.
   
   2
3. Ellen White's Authority: Ellen White's writings are considered by many Adventists to hold prophetic authority, which some critics view as placing her writings on par with Scripture. This reliance on her visions and teachings raises concerns among those who believe in the sufficiency of the Bible alone.
   
   2
4. 
   
   
   
   
   
   4 Sources

Criticism​

Critics of the SDA Church, including some evangelical scholars, have labeled it a cult due to its distinct doctrines and practices that diverge from traditional Christian beliefs. For instance, some argue that the church's teachings on the Trinity and salvation are unorthodox, and they often compare SDA to other groups considered cults, such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.

Wikipedia+1

Conclusion​

While the SDA Church identifies itself as a legitimate Christian denomination, the combination of its unique beliefs, historical origins, and the authoritative role of Ellen White leads some to classify it as a cult. This classification is often debated, with supporters arguing for its legitimacy based on its adherence to biblical teachings and emphasis on health and religious liberty. Understanding these perspectives is crucial for a comprehensive view of the SDA Church and its place within the broader Christian community."

O.k., first point on why some believe SDA is a cult...

"Sabbath Observance: Adventists observe the Sabbath from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, which they believe is a commandment from God. This strict adherence to Sabbath observance sets them apart from many other Christian denominations. "

This was my reason why some believe SDA is a cult, and I find this totally hilarious. Extremely ignorant. It's like saying, you keep the commandments of God, so you are less than. lol Ignorance for sure!

 

[kinda]

O.k., second point...

"Investigative Judgment: This doctrine, unique to Adventism, posits that Christ is currently judging the lives of believers in heaven. Critics argue that this belief is not biblically supported and contributes to the perception of SDA as a cult."

The investigative judgment is a Seventh-day Adventist doctrine asserting that Christ has been reviewing the lives of professed believers in heaven since 1844 to determine their eligibility for salvation.

Overview​

"The investigative judgment, also called the pre-Advent judgment, is a central doctrine in Seventh-day Adventist theology. It teaches that Christ moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary on October 22, 1844, beginning a new phase of His ministry that involves examining the lives of all who have professed faith in God to determine whose sins will be blotted out and who will be saved (Hebrews 8:1–2; Daniel 8:13–14). This process is seen as a continuation of Christ’s atoning work, which began on the cross and continued in the heavenly sanctuary."

"The concept of Investigative Judgment is not directly mentioned in the Bible, but its principles are found throughout Scripture. The Bible describes a judgment process where God examines the records of human lives before pronouncing the final verdict and carrying out the sentence. This concept helps explain how God's justice operates in the universe. The Bible teaches that every human being will stand before God in judgment, and no life is overlooked. The apostle Paul affirmed that all people will appear before God’s judgment seat, indicating that judgment is universal.


The Investigative Judgment is central to the beliefs of many Christian denominations, particularly Seventh-day Adventists. The idea is that at some point in the future, God will judge every person who has ever lived to determine who will be saved and who will be lost. This judgment is based on each person's faithfulness to God's commandments and the choices they have made throughout their lives. The concept is based on several biblical passages, including Daniel 7:9-10, 13-14, and Revelation 14:6-7."

Hebrews 4
13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

Psalm 33
13The Lord looks from heaven;
He sees all the sons of men.
14From the place of His dwelling He looks
On all the inhabitants of the earth;
15He fashions their hearts individually;
He considers all their works.

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the Lord are in every place,
Keeping watch on the evil and the good.

Conclusion: I would say, Investigative Judgment is definitely plausible, but no way is this doctrine grounds for contempt. It maybe a little questionable, as the this date is purely out of sight for most, who read the Bible.

Last one..Is Ellen White a Prophetess of God?

I think this would take a while to decide. I will just say, it's possible. To be honest, Ellen White isn't really hammered on, while attending church. You might hear whispers to help reinforce some Bible Studies, but it's hardly a focal point, when studying the Bible in my experience. Ellen White is normally taught in depth, when SDA meet at home, or private groups, it's not something I have experienced being indoctrinated. I even heard a Junior Pastor say at a SDA Bible Study, let's stick to the Bible, and not dive into Ellen White's teaching. While other SDA teachers are so radical, you wouldn't even know what their talking about, unless you were raised in their church.

So, from my experience, the Bible is held in higher regard, than Ellen White's writings, but as the same time, I believe some SDA's really believe she is a prophetess. My conclusion is that it's possible, and might be good for commentary, but I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist to dive that deep. I'm more of a guest and appreciate their teachings, but did have a very bad experience at one of their churches. Overall I think they are extremely devout and are serious about their faith.

I realize that guests, should act like guests, and respect their faith, because they are extremely serious about their faith and don't look to favorably towards contradictory view points, in their house. So, I know this now, and respect their faith. Once again, I don't see anything that is worth labeling the SDA church as something negative, but a place of worship and learning, that definitely one could benefit from.

Yes, they might be a little clicky, but they take their faith serious, and don't need new comers to act a fool. I think if people go there and show respect, and try to learn from them, it would be beneficial.

 

[kinda]

Me too. He was my personal pastor for many years, he really knows the Bible and is a great teacher.


Sadly even Jesus had a Judas.

Agree!


I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with anyone on this thread. They are not interested in facts, but a narrative. Its all for God to sort out.

God bless!

Very lucky! You must live in Sacremento!

I like to at least hear the opposition, but after questioning it lead no where. I get it, if you don't like a certain church, but at least be able to give reasoning. It's just broad strokes, with no follow through.

God bless you also.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Very lucky! You must live in Sacremento!

I like to at least hear the opposition, but after questioning it lead no where. I get it, if you don't like a certain church, but at least be able to give reasoning. It's just broad strokes, with no follow through.

God bless you also.

I used to live right outside of Sacramento for many years until we moved. I miss CA but also I don't. I was very blessed to have him as my pastor for many years and still listen to him online. My church now is much smaller, but I love my Christian family.

 

[kinda]

I used to live right outside of Sacramento for many years until we moved. I miss CA but also I don't. I was very blessed to have him as my pastor for many years and still listen to him online. My church now is much smaller, but I love my Christian family.

I'm from California also, and know exactly what you mean. lol The beaches, the weather, mountains, and beauty will spoil you, but you will pay for it by cost of living, and traffic. Glad I left also.

I started attending a SDA church back in California and surely didn't know what I was getting involved in. lol Doug Bachelor just had really good teachings, so I had to come check it out. I would say, SDA makes education a priority. There really should make a video for someone thinking about going to SDA, since it's not your typical fellowship. Quite some depth. It's really shocking how knowledgeable people are there.

 

[Qt]

It’s best to just let this roll off us, they have no idea what they are saying, God will sort it all out in His time.

Seems there is a lack of any real bases for a lot of it.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I'm from California also, and know exactly what you mean. lol The beaches, the weather, mountains, and beauty will spoil you, but you will pay for it by cost of living, and traffic. Glad I left also.

I started attending a SDA church back in California and surely didn't know what I was getting involved in. lol Doug Bachelor just had really good teachings, so I had to come check it out. I would say, SDA makes education a priority. There really should make a video for someone thinking about going to SDA, since it's not your typical fellowship. Quite some depth. It's really shocking how knowledgeable people are there.

We are blessed to have so many great pastors. Ivor Meyers, James Rafferty, Walter Veith are a few of my favorite of course with Pastor Doug. I was spoiled with Pastor Doug for sure! i didn't realize it until after I move,

Yes, the beaches, the food, the weather, the mountains the things to do. But its not the same CA I knew and loved it has really changed in the past few years. Its sad, we will probably move back eventually unless Jesus comes first!

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Seems there is a lack of any real bases for a lot of it.

Its stuff thats been around the internet for a long time that has all been refuted many times over. Even you take EGW out of the equation, it doesn't change anything about what God said. Trying to discredit EGW, does not change God's written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 we will all have to answer to soon. Ecc12:13-14 John12:48 James2:11

God bless you guys and Happy Sabbath!

 

[kinda]

We are blessed to have so many great pastors. Ivor Meyers, James Rafferty, Walter Veith are a few of my favorite of course with Pastor Doug. I was spoiled with Pastor Doug for sure! i didn't realize it until after I move,

Yes, the beaches, the food, the weather, the mountains the things to do. But its not the same CA I knew and loved it has really changed in the past few years. Its sad, we will probably move back eventually unless Jesus comes first!

Yes, definitely some great Bible teachers from SDA. Never heard of those you mentioned (except for Doug), might have to have a listen. I recently been looking at the youtube channel, it is written. Not sure who is teaching, but they have some prophecy stuff there.

Your gonna move back, well good for you. Can't be the weather, that is for sure. To have Doug as pastor, might be worth the cost of living. lol He is just bang on, breaks it up the teaching with a few jokes, and have an easy enough plat form to follow. The normally have some good computer graphics on those specials.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Me too. He was my personal pastor for many years, he really knows the Bible and is a great teacher.

You talking about the hypocrite that preaches against divorce and remarriage to his congregation but is divorced and remarried himself?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Yes, definitely some great Bible teachers from SDA. Never heard of those you mentioned (except for Doug), might have to have a listen. I recently been looking at the youtube channel, it is written. Not sure who is teaching, but they have some prophecy stuff there.

You’re gonna move back, well good for you. Can't be the weather, that is for sure. To have Doug as pastor, might be worth the cost of living. lol He is just bang on, breaks it up the teaching with a few jokes, and have an easy enough plat form to follow. The normally have some good computer graphics on those specials.

You should really check out the others. Walter Veith is famous for bizarre conspiracy theories about the Jesuits and the New World Order. His theory on the pope creating Islam is a banger. Ivor somehow turned the beauty of the gospel into a math equation. Ol Doug thinks there will be a worldwide law enforcing Sunday worship. Great group of pastors.

 

[Aaron56]

Don’t want this to get lost:

@pinebeach @Magenta @TruthDefender @Just_A__Follower

An SDA member, Dirk Anderson, who left the cult set up a fairly thorough website about his research into Ellen White:

https://www.nonegw.org/

The home page leads to an index of topics.

Be warned: some SDA's created an "anti-Dirk Anderson" response on one of their pages: https://www.ellenwhite.info/dirk_anderson_on_the_bible.htm

The pages (only two for Mr. Anderson's hundreds?) are meant to poison Mr. Anderson's credence with Evangelicals by casting doubt on his personal view of the Bible. Remember: one doesn't have to be a believer in God to know what a cult is when they leave one. No doubt, if Dirk maintains any issues about religion, it might be traced to his time with the Seventh Day Adventists. Having been lied to for years will do that to a person.

Here are his sites:

https://www.nonegw.org/ and https://www.nonsda.org/

I did not have the time to examine them closely so I am not vouching for their doctrinal stance but they seem to provide a good foundation of information that demonstrates how Ellen White and her followers lost their way.

 

[kinda]

You should really check out the others. Walter Veith is famous for bizarre conspiracy theories about the Jesuits and the New World Order. His theory on the pope creating Islam is a banger. Ivor somehow turned the beauty of the gospel into a math equation. Ol Doug thinks there will be a worldwide law enforcing Sunday worship. Great group of pastors.

I'm sure your an avid follower and just felt like sharing some highlights right? lol I hope you enjoy your little mocking checklist. lol

Is that the best you can do? Can't you find any more dirt? Come on, you can do it. lol So, how many teachings have you heard or seen by these pastors?

Do you have a link for Walter Veith's famous theory on the Jesuits and the New World Order? I would actually want to watch that. thanks!

 

[pinebeach]

It's a mark of true accuracy and desire for truth, that SDA adherents come here to sing the praises of their cult.

Not one post seeking to expose this cult and the biblical error of White's demented visions and prophecies is posted with a desire to exaggerate or simply to pick on people.

Everything is well documented from more than one source and is available to anyone who cares to do their own research.

Mocking, distorting, cherry picking Bible verses, taking Bible verses out of context and condeming people to hell because they do not observe the sabbath and other cult like innovations kind of pale when you realize that SDA is basically geared to follow a person into grave error, rather than to accept the Bible's version of the gospel and follow Christ.

It is also interesting that some of the SDA adherents on this site come here on their 'special' day to post the usual rhetoric rather than follow their own advice and put the day aside to 'worship' on the Sabbath. Such is the hypocrisy of SDA I guess

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I'm sure your an avid follower and just felt like sharing some highlights right? lol I hope you enjoy your little mocking checklist. lol

Is that the best you can do? Can't you find any more dirt? Come on, you can do it. lol So, how many teachings have you heard or seen by these pastors?

Do you have a link for Walter Veith's famous theory on the Jesuits and the New World Order? I would actually want to watch that. thanks!

Yea I’m not posting his heretical garbage. If you want to find it search total onslaught on YouTube. It’s a 37 video series. And it’s not “dirt” if it’s their own public teaching. Walter is a lunatic not a pastor. Have fun.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I'm sure your an avid follower and just felt like sharing some highlights right? lol I hope you enjoy your little mocking checklist. lol

Is that the best you can do? Can't you find any more dirt? Come on, you can do it. lol So, how many teachings have you heard or seen by these pastors?

Do you have a link for Walter Veith's famous theory on the Jesuits and the New World Order? I would actually want to watch that. thanks!

Pastor Veith has a pod series called whats up prof. You can google it's on Youtube. Its awesome.

Here is a series he did on Hebrews that I also loved

Pastor Raferty seems like a sweetheart- he also did a short series on Hebrews which I loved so much

And Pastor Ivor and Pastor Raftery did a series together on the Book of Revelation and Daniel, its outstanding. Long 112 episodes but 30 minutes and they are fantastic.

 

[tourist]

I am a Seventh-Day Adventist. If you are interested in a discussion without SDAs I will move on but if you are open to a conversation rather than a debate I would be glad to attempt to address your concerns.

My wife is SDA too.

 

[kinda]

Pastor Veith has a pod series called whats up prof. You can google it's on Youtube. Its awesome.

Here is a series he did on Hebrews that I also loved

Pastor Raferty seems like a sweetheart- he also did a short series on Hebrews which I loved so much

And Pastor Ivor and Pastor Raftery did a series together on the Book of Revelation and Daniel, its outstanding. Long 112 episodes but 30 minutes and they are fantastic.

Thanks for sharing. I might have to take a look at them. Been watching, it is written on youtube.

Honestly, I don't know where this contempt is coming from for the SDA church, it is really crazy. It reminds me of politics, how Liberals hate Trump like no other. I think it's just a spiritual matter. If anything, people should be like, why are churches keeping Sunday Sabbath?

I remember when I found out the Sabbath truth, I felt betrayed. I guess people prefer to be lied to and told lies?!?! Honestly, honestly can't see where this hatred is coming from.

Even in that video you posted, Doug was showing the video of people discrediting the SDA church, and they can't even think straight when talking about SDA. Like SDA shouldn't even be a denomination.. Like what? lol They just hate the SDA church, and have no reason to.

Like when I responded to that video pine posted, the first minute what just slander about SDA, but no content. Then when it started giving the dirt, one point was absolutely false, the other point was completely misguided. Of course no response on the points I made, but just got ignored. Your right, there is literally no point. People like the Catholic Church more than the SDA Church and that says a ton. When is the last time you seen a thread in Bible Study on the Catholic Church, now how many anti-SDA threads have you seen? lol

It's laughable. SDA isn't the enemy, the Catholic Church is. Go check your church fathers and they might be able to confirm this. Jesus kept Sabbath, why isn't the church?

 

[rrcn]

I would like to hear your rebuttal, you don't have to debate. Please don't be intimidated by ignorance.

Not intimidated at all, I was advised by a friend to forgo debates and decided he was right.

 

[rrcn]

My wife is SDA too.

How do you feel about her faith. In particular do you think she observes the Sabbath as a matter of willing obedience or legalism?