Adventists, Ellen G. White, failed prophecies and scripture

[kinda]

Claims that are false: annihilation of the unsaved after death.
Soul sleep. The story of the rich man and Lazarus prove those doctrines to be false.

Sabbath worship. Not New Testament teaching or practice.

Legalism. SDA teaches that God saves people so that they can go back under the Law of Moses. This is contrary to New Testament teaching. (Ellen G. White, Special Testimony to Battle Creek Church, pg. 32 (PHO86 32.1))
Those who do not obey the law (and who does?) cannot enter the City of God. (Ellen G. White, Letters & Manuscripts, Vol. 15, Manuscript 23, 1900)

Hey, if this is your reasons, that is totally your right. It sounds like your mind is made up, so that is fine. I can totally understand why you and others are against the SDA church. Thanks for explaining. No hard feelings at all.

For others, SDA is a community of believers, that have a great testimony, and have done God's work. So be it, either way. Allow me to respond.

I actually created a thread on the annihilation earlier, I honestly want to believe people will not be in torment for eternity. It's so sad, if that is the case! I have concluded, that there is room for either eternal punishment, or punishment that results in eternal death. Basically, I'm open to either interpretation. I guess we will find out at judgment day for sure. I get both sides of the discussion though.

As far as Sabbath keeping in the New Testament, totally disagree with you here of course. You pretty much have to deny who Jesus was and the disciples. If there ever was someone who kept the law to the letter and spirit, it was Jesus. Not unless your saying, we shouldn't follow Jesus's example?!?! Right?

Luke 4
16So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

As far as the law is concerned, why would a heathen want to obey the law, seems rather silly?!?! On the other hand, why wouldn't a believer want to keep the law? Should we purposefully forget the law of God?!?! That sounds even more crazier! Just my take... Maybe quote scripture.

Matthew 5
17“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

2 Thessalonians 2
9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous signs, lying wonders, 10and every type of evil to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. 12Then all who have not believed the truth but have taken pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Shall we move on to Ellen’s full support of the sadistic medical practices oF dr Kellogg who she claimed God appointed? I’m sure when many hear Kellogg they think of cereal. I used to think of the same thing until I found out that he was a sadistic maniac. He was eventually excommunicated from the church but not for his sadistic medical experiments. It was because of his pantheistic views.

1. Kellogg as a "God-Appointed" Physician
"Dr. Kellogg is a God-appointed physician. He has been doing a work that is in accordance with the light God has given me. The Lord has made him a leader in our medical work, and those who oppose him are opposing the work of God. I have seen that he has been given special wisdom and power to do a work that no other man among us can do. He is the right arm of the gospel, and he must be sustained and supported by our people."
— Ellen G. White, Battle Creek Letters, p. 54 (1898)

2. Command to Obey Kellogg’s Medical Authority
"I was shown that the medical missionary work is the right arm of the message, and that Dr. Kellogg is the man God has chosen to lead in this work. The students and those in the sanitarium are to obey his instructions and follow his advice in the medical field. God has given him light that He has not given to others, and he is to be respected as the head of our medical work. To refuse to follow his lead is to refuse the light that God has sent through him."
— Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol. 18, p. 212

3. Defending His Work as the "Right Arm"
"The medical missionary work, of which Dr. Kellogg is the head, is the right arm of the gospel. It is the means by which the truth is to find an entrance into the hearts of those who would not otherwise be reached. The Lord has blessed Dr. Kellogg in his work, and He has given him success that has made the Battle Creek Sanitarium a light to the world. We are to cooperate with him in every way possible, and we are to see that his hands are not weakened by those who do not understand the importance of this work."
— Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, August 15, 1899

I’m not posting the specific verbatim text of Dr. Kellogg’s medical "cures" because they are too graphic and disturbing for a public forum, but they are 100% verified historical facts. You can find them yourself by searching for the 1888 edition of "Plain Facts for Old and Young"(pages 295-296) and his "Ladies' Guide in Health and Disease." These weren't secret experiments; they were published in his own manuals and sold by the thousands to the public while Ellen White was busy writing testimonies calling him a "God-appointed physician" and telling students to "obey his instructions." She didn't just stay silent; she put a prophetic stamp of approval on a man who was publicly documenting the use of acid and unanesthetized surgery on children as the "right arm of the gospel."

 

[kinda]

According to White, only those who achieve sinless perfection will be rewarded with eternal life. According to SDA doctrine, a person is pardoned but placed on “parole,” with final justification ultimately depending on one’s ability to perfectly keep the Ten Commandments—a teaching that contradicts the biblical message of salvation by grace through faith. (A summary of EG White, "Review & Herald, May 28, 1901")

The SDA basis for salvation is false. Jesus came that we might have Life, not the ability to keep the 10 commandments. Since SAD have no assurance of salvation, it is no wonder that they harp on about the Law.

In one sense they are right. God did not give Law that is impossible to keep. However, the sin nature from Adam rebels against God's ways. That is why we need to be born again. But the emphasis on law is false. Once we are born again, we live by a new principle, the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ - not in Moses.

SDA have an answer for everything, course. So do Roman Catholic theologians. Their answers do not stand up to Biblical truth. You can prove many things by cherry picking scripture and distorting the meaning of others.

This quote is taken directly from the Adventist webpage...

What about works?​

"Adventists believe that how you act—your works—are the result of your relationship with Jesus, not the foundation of it.

There is nothing we can do to earn salvation. All of us are too sinful to deserve heaven. If salvation was based on whoever earns it, we’d all be in trouble. Thankfully, however, it’s not about us. It’s about Jesus.

“The righteousness of God is through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe, since there is no distinction. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. God presented him as an atoning sacrifice in his blood, received through faith, to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his restraint God passed over the sins previously committed” (Romans 3:22-25, CSB).

All we need to do is accept Him and His gift. That is the ultimate act of faith. Adventists hold to the belief that each and every human being can be saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

Then, and only then, do works come into play.12"

https://adventist.org/beliefs/bible/understanding/salvation-through-jesus-christ-alone

 

[TMS]

Legalism. SDA teaches that God saves people so that they can go back under the Law of Moses. This is contrary to New Testament teaching. (Ellen G. White, Special Testimony to Battle Creek Church, pg. 32 (PHO86 32.1))
Those who do not obey the law (and who does?) cannot enter the City of God. (Ellen G. White, Letters & Manuscripts, Vol. 15, Manuscript 23, 1900)

SDA teaches that God saves people by faith through grace.

We can not save ourselves.
All the works in our lifetime can not earn salvation.

SDA's teach that our own righteousness is as filthy rages and that Jesus and the gift of His righteousness is the only way we can be saved.

But we also teach that faith without works is dead.
That heaven is not a place for the transgression of God's law.
That the problem of sin will not continue after the return of Christ.
So we will not sin after the return Jesus.
Sin is the transgression of the law
So we will perfectly obey the law.

All by the power of Jesus
The source of victory is Jesus.
All glory to Jesus. That's why it is a gift recieved by faith.

Do you disagree with EWhites quote... ?
Do you think law breakers, transgressors, or sinners will enter the city of God. ?

 

[kinda]

God said If you love Me, keep My commandments Exo20:6 so doing what God asks is "work" and bad? Its sad how the Testimony of God gets so distorted. Keeping God's commandments are His works Exo32:16 what He made for us to walk in Eph2:10 by the power of His Spirit John14:15-18

The 4th commandment is the only commandment that reveals the God we are to worship. Written personally by God spoken by God, God's own Testimony.

Exo 20:8“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9;Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10;but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11;For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The LORD never wants us to forget our Creator and where we came from why He said "Remember" as the Sabbath is a memorial to His creative power and works.

Its why the devil has been attacking this commandment in every direction he can because he wants us to worship him, not our Creator who made.

Isa 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’

The mount of congregation is the church. Lucifer can't make heaven and earth he is confined to this earth so what does he do against God and the people of God. He sits on the mount of the church and counterfeited the commandment that points to our Creator.

As predicted in Daniel

Dan 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.

The only commandment that is both a time and law that has to do with worship (mount of the congregation) is the 4th commandment. And was it changed as predicted? Yes history reveals this plainly and those ones who changed it boast about it, they claim it was changed by the sense of their authority above the Bible - this change is a mark of their authority over God's.







And they even admit where it came from





Which God said is the greatest abomination

Turning their backs to God's temple and worshipping the sun, instead of the Creator.

No wonder why we are told in Revelations by Jesus

Rev 17:3 And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4;The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

Why we are in the last days and told to come out of these false teachings

Rev 18:4And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
And back to worshipping our CREATOR
Rev 14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Exo 20::11;For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This should be nailed to all the Catholic Church doors in the world. Sort of like what Luther did. Should be nailed on most Protestant Church doors as well, to be perfectly honest. lol

 

[tourist]

It's not about your wife or anyone else. I don't know why you would even think to post that. I don't know your wife or you.

You say you don't know either me or my wife but yet you respond harshly. By the way, I was not referring to you. Also, you are not the OP either say I don't give a squat what you believe it is appropriate for me to post. Crawl back into your cave. Putting you on Eeyore too.

 

[tourist]

Said Ellen White.

Actually, the Sabbath was first mentioned in the Ten Commandments. It was written.

 

[tourist]

...we are not interested in that either.

Who exactly is 'we'? Did you conduct a poll or something?

 

[pinebeach]

You say you don't know either me or my wife but yet you respond harshly. By the way, I was not referring to you. Also, you are not the OP either say I don't give a squat what you believe it is appropriate for me to post. Crawl back into your cave. Putting you on Eeyore too.

Actually, the Sabbath was first mentioned in the Ten Commandments. It was written.

Who exactly is 'we'? Did you conduct a poll or something?

Actually I am the op. So yes, I did create the thread for a reason and not to talk about personal issues. The Sabbath worship dictates of SDA do not line up with New Testament teachings and SDA doctrine does not line up with the gospel. There is a reason that Christianity calls SDA cult, just like Mormons, JW's and others.

I am not responsible for reactions.

 

[pinebeach]

I go to an Anglican church, but I'm not Anglican. I was a member of a Baptist church for several years. I don't agree with all Baptist doctrine either. There is a difference between minor disagreements and rejection of core doctrines. I put SDA and Roman Catholicism in the latter category. That's somewhat ironic, considering SDA's attitude to Catholicism.

At heart, SDA is Christ plus law. Paul railed against exactly that. I don't say that adherence to either denomination's beliefs disqualifies someone from salvation. I do say that it becomes a religious straight jacket that greatly hinders their walk with Christ - if they are are born again in reality, that is.

And yes, I know that there are countless unsaved Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists and so on. Right doctrine saves no one. That's not the point. SDA claims a spiritual superiority that is based on false understanding of God's word and the words of a false prophet. SDA brings nothing of spiritual value to the body of Christ and leads some into legalism and bondage.

The core of the teaching of SDA is evidenced in the 10 commandments thread. No matter what proof you present that clearly shows the errors of the SDA teaching, you are told you don't understand scripture or your words are twisted to make it seem you just want to argue (which is something they practice with gusto) or the scripture is totally ignored.

I posted the very clear words of sabbathb made in post 5409 of the commandment thread wherein we are being told that the mark of the beast is worshipping or going to church on Sunday. No big deal. Business as usual. Maybe the bigger problem is people do not actually know what is in the Bible, don't read, never mind study. They sit like lumps and when the service is over, nothing is changed or meaningful. So, you end up with cults masquerading as mainline when they are not biblical.

The denial of what is posted in this thread regarding the actual beliefs and teachings of SDA (mind you I doubt that not everyone has the fervor of sabbathb and a few others) is wishful thinking. Anyone participating in the commandment thread knows full well what sabbathb actually believes and what that thread is actually about. The title alone says it all...the covenant is not what we know in the NT, no, not at all! According to the op, it is the commandments.

Anyway, the truth is presented and what people do with it, is between themself and themself and in the end, with God Himself.

You absolutley cannot believe SDA teaching unless you have no regard for scripture and as far as the commandments being the covenant....that is heresy.

 

[studier]

you are told you don't understand scripture or your words are twisted to make it seem you just want to argue (which is something they practice with gusto)

Similar to JW - coaching on how to contend with disagreement.

This forum doesn't moderate as much as some others or another ploy would come out - push hard and when pushed back hard look for something that can be turned over to the moderators to get opponents silenced.

wherein we are being told that the mark of the beast is worshipping or going to church on Sunday. No big deal. Business as usual.

Push some of them hard enough and you'll find the 'you're not saved' teeth come out. It's just the logical end of the system.

 

[kinda]

Just wanted to add this in for fun...

There are over 28,000 Baptist hospitals world wide.
There are 1,000 SDA Hospitals and Clinics world wide.
There are over 5,500 Catholic Hospitals world wide.
There are over 100 Jewish Hospitals world wide.
Possibly 1 Evangelical Hospital world wide, couldn't find more than one.

There are 47 Baptist schools world wide
There are 7,800 SDA schools world wide.
There are over 200,000 Catholic Schools world wide.
There are over 6,500 Jewish Schools world wide
Non-denomontional Evangelical schools?

Anyways, Baptist scored the highest in hospitals, and Catholics took the schools.

 

[pinebeach]

Similar to JW - coaching on how to contend with disagreement.

This forum doesn't moderate as much as some others or another ploy would come out - push hard and when pushed back hard look for something that can be turned over to the moderators to get opponents silenced.

Yes they do teach tactics to silence people who object to the anti-biblical stance regarding Sabbath worship, works and so on.

Push some of them hard enough and you'll find the 'you're not saved' teeth come out. It's just the logical end of the system.

LOL! Right and the fallback 'I have shown you the truth and you deny it so I will no longer answer you'...ususally comes after scripture that they ignore or maybe never new existed. It's classic.

To be sure there are people in this thread I have on ignore...actually a couple long before I created the thread. I mean when you are obnoxious, that trait can usually be found across the board. There are a couple that I put on ignore in the news forum because they suffer so badly from TDS but they have designaged this thread as worthy of their presence.

 

[pinebeach]

"It was seen, also, that while the sin-offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed... Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty."
— Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 422

Whaaaa? LOL! Sorry but that one in particular I find really off the wall. Is there anything in the SDA doctrine that is biblical? Probably, but where or where? Apparently sex was off limits as well and women should refrain from normal marriage..she was really big on that. That's not biblical either. sigh

 

[studier]

LOL! Right and the fallback 'I have shown you the truth and you deny it so I will no longer answer you'...ususally comes after scripture that they ignore or maybe never new existed. It's classic.

I've found on forums that this is the normal routine of most - try to get the discussion pointedly into going through specific Scripture without rabbit-trailing proof-texting and the diversions and tactics go into overdrive.

 

[pinebeach]

I've found on forums that this is the normal routine of most - try to get the discussion pointedly into going through specific Scripture without rabbit-trailing proof-texting and the diversions and tactics go into overdrive.

It's a machine with dishonesty, casting aspersions on people, telling people they are not saved and at times just telling people they are stupid and don't understand anything. A real demonstration of biblical honesty and love. But hey...it's the Sabbath so they must all be out to their place of worship? No?

 

[pinebeach]

I think this would be a good time to post the definition of a religious cult....

a religious or quasi-religious group characterized by unusual or atypical beliefs, seclusion from the outside world, and an authoritarian structure. Cults tend to be highly cohesive, well organized, secretive, and hostile to nonmembers

 

[pinebeach]

John 5:18​

'Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.'​

When the Jewish authorities heard Jesus call God 'my (own) Father', they immediately understood that Jesus claimed for Himself deity in the highest possible sense of that term. That claim was either blasphemy, to be punished by death, or else Jesus was who He claimed to be.

Jesus never associated Himself with His disciples by using the plural pronoun 'our' Father. Rather, He always used the singular 'my' Father, since His relationship was unique and eternal, whereas theirs was by grace and regeneration.

We should ponder carefully our Lord's own conception of who He was. He said 'I am from above' (Jn. 8:23); 'Before Abraham was, I AM' (Jn. 8:58); 'I and my Father are one' (Jn. 10:30); 'He that hath seen me hath seen the Father' (Jn. 14:9); and 'I am not of the world' (Jn. 17:16). He also declared His eternal pre-existence and that He shared the Father's glory (Jn. 6:62; 17:5).

We can't just honor Jesus, but we have to honor Him 'even as' (in like manner or the same way) we honor the Father. This is what separates true Christianity from the religions of the world. Most religions honor Jesus as a great man (examples: Islam, Unification Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.), but they are violently opposed to making Jesus equal with Almighty God (1 Jn. 2:23). The names and titles given to Jesus in John's gospel clearly present Jesus as being equal with God. He is all you need Him to be.

 

[studier]

It's a machine with dishonesty, casting aspersions on people, telling people they are not saved and at times just telling people they are stupid and don't understand anything.

Yup.

 

[pinebeach]

SDA teaches that God saves people by faith through grace.

We can not save ourselves.
All the works in our lifetime can not earn salvation.

SDA's teach that our own righteousness is as filthy rages and that Jesus and the gift of His righteousness is the only way we can be saved.

But we also teach that faith without works is dead.
That heaven is not a place for the transgression of God's law.
That the problem of sin will not continue after the return of Christ.
So we will not sin after the return Jesus.
Sin is the transgression of the law
So we will perfectly obey the law.

All by the power of Jesus
The source of victory is Jesus.
All glory to Jesus. That's why it is a gift recieved by faith.

Do you disagree with EWhites quote... ?
Do you think law breakers, transgressors, or sinners will enter the city of God. ?

SDA does not teach salvation through the grace of God. That is not true in the least. If you don't believe that, check out the posts of sabbath b in the 10 commandments thread...for that matter, how about the title of that thread? The 10 commandments are the covenant? Yeah? Sound familiar? Mind you, mr v says he does not go to church and is not SDA, but he certainly hovers around in their orbit.

What you post above is not even close to what we will find on the SDA platform with regards to Jesus. As far as sin goes, Jesus died to give salvation...which is not earned by works or any other thing...to those who believe in Him and accept Him as the One sent by God for the very purpose of securing salvation for mankine.

Works are not a part of salvation...works, those specified by God, occur after salvation and are acceptable to Him as purposed by Him through sanctification and the Holy Spirit.

No one of sound mind and familar with scripture believes any sort of sin or lawlessness will be found in the abode of God