Are Sex Offenders a liability to Churches?

[KennethC]

If this is what actually occurred, this is all ridiculous. No one should ever be convicted of being a sex offender for this! I'm sorry I even got into this discussion now...

Peeing in public

sex in a public place(even if it is your spouse)

Exposing oneself

Sexual harassment crimes in many places (including slapping another on the button)

And of course rape, pedophilia, incest, and sexting are all sex offenses that requires registration.

Feel in any I missed if you like as it is a good size list.

 

[biblicalsandy]

Isn't anything that involves genital areas in either non violent or violent situations, if convicted? if the courts deem it inappropriate?

 

[Willie-T]

Wow! Dang good question, very difficult... I think at that point the sex offenders should restrict themselves to going to services just when there are other adults around. Obviously try and stay away from kids. Like I feel like after serving their time and realizing what they've done, they should know and try to keep things safe for others. And obviously if they are not repentant at all then they should go back to jail.

You seem to be one of the few who get it. That is exactly what they do.

For Pete's sake, it would take a pretty foolish person to think an SO is going to ask to be in the Children's Ministry. Those of us who work with these guys spend months and even years helping them learn what they need to do to stay straight. And they are well aware of the second-chance they have been given.

Any one of these guys could well be any of our very own sons, husbands, or fathers (or the female counterparts, since there are quite a few female sex offenders), yet some of you do your best to accept them as nothing but monsters.

 

[KennethC]

Then if you KNOW for positive that someone is a pedo, then they SHOULD be labeled as one so everyone knows what they are and can monitor them. jmo

Monitor yes I agree with, but labeling I don't because God's word says it is wrong.

I am trying to find that scripture but I am on my phone.

 

[Nautilus]

This Jesus?


Mt 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

You do realize not all sex offenders deal with children right? Thats simply the point Willie T is making. Why you are being too dense to understand that is beyond me.

 

[LesserThanAll]

As I hope to wrap up this thread, I want to say a couple things. Since I have been labeled, most people assume the worst. They don't ask questions. They hear "Sex Offender" and assume it involves a man dragging an innocent child into the bushes. That scenario is VERY rare. I volunteered for 4 years of therapy and was a resident counselor for 6 years after that. The horrible reality is that a vast majority of sex offenses (more than 85%) are family members or friends of the family. As a father of 4 boys, I too have that knee-jerk, fleshly reaction to sex offenders when it comes to my family. I understand and respect all the opinions expressed though I may not agree with them. Thank you for sharing. I hope I am welcomed in other discussions as well.

Jeff

 

[Miri]

Volunteering for 4 years therapy for a single incident involving a drunken streak
across a campus as a young man, feels a bit like overkill to me, if that is all it
entailed.

Maybe I just don't understand the differences between the UK and
USA system. It just feels like something is being made of nothing and there
was no need for this thread at all. Or maybe there is more than meets the eye.

No offence intended but I still feel confused.

Best wishes

 

[KennethC]

As I hope to wrap up this thread, I want to say a couple things. Since I have been labeled, most people assume the worst. They don't ask questions. They hear "Sex Offender" and assume it involves a man dragging an innocent child into the bushes. That scenario is VERY rare. I volunteered for 4 years of therapy and was a resident counselor for 6 years after that. The horrible reality is that a vast majority of sex offenses (more than 85%) are family members or friends of the family. As a father of 4 boys, I too have that knee-jerk, fleshly reaction to sex offenders when it comes to my family. I understand and respect all the opinions expressed though I may not agree with them. Thank you for sharing. I hope I am welcomed in other discussions as well.

Jeff

Yes you are welcomed and are right in what you have said.

The problem's in this world will always continue when people blindly take what others say as truth without checking it out for themselves.

We are even told to do this with the pastor's at our churches, to test them by the Word of God to make sure truth is being shared.

Such bad following of not testing shows when statements are made by some like, "doctrinal differences don't matter."

The Word of God clearly emphasises the importance of keeping with sound doctrine and not going astray !!!

Keep up the fight for Christ and growing in the faith !!!

 

[Magenta]

Thank you for being so open and honest with us, Jeff. That took a lot of courage knowing in advance as you do how people are going to react. Please do feel free to engage in any discussions as you feel moved to participate. You do not need our permission

 

[Willie-T]

Volunteering for 4 years therapy for a single incident involving a drunken streak
across a campus as a young man, feels a bit like overkill to me, if that is all it
entailed.

Maybe I just don't understand the differences between the UK and
USA system. It just feels like something is being made of nothing and there
was no need for this thread at all. Or maybe there is more than meets the eye.

No offence intended but I still feel confused.

Best wishes

Whether or not Jeff is lying (as you have repeatedly implied in a very poorly veiled manner) is, possibly, a matter of interest to an extent. But it has almost nothing to do with the reaction to, and treatment of, people who have had this damning label hung on them.......... as has been seen right here with the way we "Christians" assumed, God knows what.

He was, virtually, tried and sentenced here by a number of people when we had nothing to go on but a label, and a man saying he felt like "lesser-than-all" of us judging him for that label. We CAN (and often do) push people into shamed little corners when there may be no reason for them to feel that way other than the taunting accusatory reactions of others.

No reason to "feel confused." Either believe him, as you would want us to believe you, or come right out and call him a liar.

 

[KennethC]

Volunteering for 4 years therapy for a single incident involving a drunken streak
across a campus as a young man, feels a bit like overkill to themme, if that is all it
entailed.

Maybe I just don't understand the differences between the UK and
USA system. It just feels like something is being made of nothing and there
was no need for this thread at all. Or maybe there is more than meets the eye.

No offence intended but I still feel confused.

Best wishes

This is a very good thread and a testimony that needs to be shared.

It shows the defilement and disrespect it causes to label people.

A lot of people who claim to be Christian would turn their nose up and treat a person like him with no respect at all, or avoid all together like he was a plague.

Yet those same people if they did not know he had that offense on his record would be respectful to him, and even talk with him for long periods of time.

Labels cause division as we see with the different denominations arguing among each other.

There is to be no division in Church, nor is there to be any discrimination.

And finally yes the U.S. does have some offenses on the registry that shouldn't.

There is 3 boys in one state (forgot which one) that have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives just for slapping a female student on the butt.

 

[Willie-T]

This is a very good thread and a testimony that needs to be shared.

It shows the defilement and disrespect it causes to label people.

A lot of people who claim to be Christian would turn their nose up and treat a person like him with no respect at all, or avoid all together like he was a plague.

Yet those same people if they did not know he had that offense on his record would be respectful to him, and even talk with him for long periods of time.

Labels cause division as we see with the different denominations arguing among each other.

There is to be no division in Church, nor is there to be any discrimination.

And finally yes the U.S. does have some offenses on the registry that shouldn't.

There is 3 boys in one state (forgot which one) that have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives just for slapping a female student on the butt.

Good words, Ken.

And one thing further that you only brushed at........ That "registering" as a Sex Offender is not just an inconvenience. It is truly often a life-altering... very often, a life-destroying, ongoing punishment. That Registry (The List) is a damnable thing that can ruin almost every aspect of a person's life... from where they live, where they can walk, who they can talk with, what meager jobs they can find, how ostracized they are in a community, to even being beaten or killed.

 

[Hellooo]

If we had to register all of our sins and get every terrible thing we ever did out in the open where anyone could refer to it for the remainder of your entire life, I wonder how many folks would be just as eager to segregate *repenting* sex offenders from our church communities?

 

[Willie-T]

I have mentioned this before, but how I wish everyone here would take a month , or so, and do some study on a human phenomenon known as The Mimetic Theory, first espoused by René Girard, back around 1957.

 

[Hellooo]

From a completely different thread but one of the most poignant observations I've read on here....

We Christians are convinced that we are somehow The Holy Spirit Jr., put on this Earth to make sure we keep everyone else straight.

 

[KennethC]

Good words, Ken.

And one thing further that you only brushed at........ That "registering" as a Sex Offender is not just an inconvenience. It is truly often a life-altering... very often, a life-destroying, ongoing punishment. That Registry (The List) is a damnable thing that can ruin almost every aspect of a person's life... from where they live, where they can walk, who they can talk with, what meager jobs they can find, how ostracized they are in a community, to even being beaten or killed.

Yes there is a number of issues and problems the registry causes.

Yet you still have those because of hatred and fear pushing for all criminals to have to register, not just sex offenders.

They also want it to be lifetime registry which is ridiculous for some cases.

Good news is that there is a major push right now being fought to remove background checks allowed and taking the felony question off applications when it comes to companies that do not deal directly with kids or health care.

 

[Willie-T]

Thank you, *Hellooo*..... but a preacher friend first laid that term out for me.

 

[Miri]

Hi Kenneth / Willie

I am genuinely confused, partly as to why such a minimal offence would result in
registry on a sex offenders list apparently for life? But also in part because of the
OPs own comments.

I had a look at his introductory thread and this implies something
far worse as does this thread . Willie I think you yourself were a bit surprised when
you realised what the offence was that Lesser was referring to.

I can only be led by Lesser's original comments which implied a worse offence.

Either there is some deceit here and some back tracking, or Lesser has bigger
problems than being registered as a sex offender for a minor offence.
I hope it is the latter and if so, that he can get help for the apparent very low self
esteem he may have which has led to such a small thing monopolising his entire
life to the degree that he believes it is far bigger than it actually is.

I have struggled with this one admittedly, wanting to believe the best but
fearing the worst, especially in view of the young people who come to
this site and also vulnerable people.

I still hold my opinion in reserve on this matter.

 

[PennEd]

I have mentioned this before, but how I wish everyone here would take a month , or so, and do some study on a human phenomenon known as The Mimetic Theory, first espoused by René Girard, back around 1957.

Admittedly didn't take a month, but it seems to me the whole theory boils down to man's sin problem. Praise God for the ultimate scapegoat, Jesus Christ!

 

[KennethC]

Hi Kenneth / Willie

I am genuinely confused, partly as to why such a minimal offence would result in
registry on a sex offenders list apparently for life? But also in part because of the
OPs own comments.

I had a look at his introductory thread and this implies something
far worse as does this thread . Willie I think you yourself were a bit surprised when
you realised what the offence was that Lesser was referring to.

I can only be led by Lesser's original comments which implied a worse offence.

Either there is some deceit here and some back tracking, or Lesser has bigger
problems than being registered as a sex offender for a minor offence.
I hope it is the latter and if so, that he can get help for the apparent very low self
esteem he may have which has led to such a small thing monopolising his entire
life to the degree that he believes it is far bigger than it actually is.

I have struggled with this one admittedly, wanting to believe the best but
fearing the worst, especially in view of the young people who come to
this site and also vulnerable people.

I still hold my opinion in reserve on this matter.

I tried to explain to you that here in the United States his offense is a sex offense that requires registration.

Even though it seems like a minimal offense it still is on the sex offense registration list.

States still have the ability to set the length of time one has to register for, but many have gone to just a standard lifetime registry.

They do not make exceptions depending on the case in those states, which is wrong.

A peeing in public, exposing/streaking, sex with spouse in a public place, and smacking a person on the butt should not carry the same punishment as rape and pedophilia. But in many places they do !!!

I have even while doing prison ministry seen a couple murders get less time then a person with a sex offense.