Are the people who drowned in the flood of Noah doomed forever?

[willfollowsGod]

I guess they passed the test of the flood, while the rest of mankind failed the test.
After that Noah and his sons did have the remaining part of their lives on earth. (They did not go to heaven after the flood ) They had to continue to believe and rely on the grace of God.
They did not live perfect lives after that. Noah did get drunk one fine day and allow his daughters to sleep with him. Ham disrespected his father and got cursed.
Nevertheless, Jesus descended from the lineage of Noah and Shem.

You are correct that Noah got drunk. But he did not sleep with his daughters, that was Lot who was seduced by his daughters who gave him much wine to drink for many days so he had no sound judgment, but it was also his fault about what happened as well. Noah's story is different from Lot's story. Here I will clarify for you:

This is Noah's story:

Genesis 9:20-27

Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked. When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, he said,

“Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers.”
He also said,


“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
May God extend Japheth’s territory;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”

This is Lot's story:

Genesis 19:30-38

Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”


That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.


The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.


So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.


God bless.

 

[Gr8grace]

Some people are really having some exegetical issues with the text in Genesis, I see.

The Bible is very clear that MAN WAS WICKED! That means they were not believers, and not following God.

They did not lose their salvation, because they never had it in the first place. They perished!

"and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished." 2 Peter 3:6

I really have to wonder about some people, who are twisting the Old Testament into a reading which was never even implied or given!

Angela, Is it wicked to live a life in self righteousness? Is it wicked and evil continually to live a life to be good enough? Apart from being saved, Is it wicked to TRY to be good enough?

A believer who says ,"screw the flood, I will just climb above the waters!"(Loss of salvation crowd) Is just as wicked as the "party crowd."

God has to stop the years of the tribulation because it is coming close to deceiving the ELECT. Overt wickedness does not deceive the Elect.......but a nice,sweet, moral.........CLOSE to the truth can. And this is EVIL AND WICKED.

The tower of Babel.........It wasn't a bunch of people trying to dig to the pits of hell to get away from God.......It was a bunch of people trying (in their flesh) to GET to God.


SELF righteousness is MORE wicked than the "party crowd."

And Just look at the folks that are liking your posts. It may clue you in here.

 

[Tintin]

Angela, Is it wicked to live a life in self righteousness? Is it wicked and evil continually to live a life to be good enough? Apart from being saved, Is it wicked to TRY to be good enough?

A believer who says ,"screw the flood, I will just climb above the waters!"(Loss of salvation crowd) Is just as wicked as the "party crowd."

God has to stop the years of the tribulation because it is coming close to deceiving the ELECT. Overt wickedness does not deceive the Elect.......but a nice,sweet, moral.........CLOSE to the truth can. And this is EVIL AND WICKED.

The tower of Babel.........It wasn't a bunch of people trying to dig to the pits of hell to get away from God.......It was a bunch of people trying (in their flesh) to GET to God.


SELF righteousness is MORE wicked than the "party crowd."

And Just look at the folks that are liking your posts. It may clue you in here.

Oh, grow up! Maybe we liked her posts because she has some good, godly things to say and has a lot of wisdom.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Sorry guys! That was my last post before I hit the sack. In my tiredness I created a remixed version of Noah and Lot's story No wonder something was bothering me before I hit the "submit" button. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[sassylady]

I believe it was final. Look how many years they had to believe and they scoffed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like the point you made about the three types of revelations.

Now,you are saying that although a believer may lose his life (by physical death) due to a particular sin, their life on the whole may not be worthy of hell, and that they stand a chance of being saved.

Only one man who ever lived can make this claim, and his name was jesus.

Every other person who has ever lived on this earth deserves hell.. bar non.

I believe that in the OT as well as the NT days, salvation comes through faith and by grace.
If those who died in the flood would have responded by faith, they would have found favor in God's eyes, just as Noah did. So the reason they died in the flood was that they had no faith.

Yes, they mocked Noah for a year, so it is not as if God did not give them a chance.

 

[P1LGR1M]

[/FONT][/COLOR]Only one man who ever lived can make this claim, and his name was jesus.

Every other person who has ever lived on this earth deserves hell.. bar non.



Yes, they mocked Noah for a year, so it is not as if God did not give them a chance.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

I would agree with both statements, but the question posed dealt with physical death being a penalty for believers.

We would have to speculate to think Noah's father and grandfather mocked Noah. Maybe they did. The point is in forgetting the Ark was a physical deliverance from judgment, rather than imposing an eternal quality to it. Noah was not saved because he built the Ark, and was not saved because he was righteous.

He was delivered from judgment because he found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

And when he got off the Ark he offered up sacrifice for His sin...

[h=1]Genesis 8:18-20King James Version (KJV)[/h]18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:


19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.


20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.


What we can say dogmatically is that this deliverance from judgment did not negate Noah's need for Redemption through the Sacrifice for Christ.

The offerings he offered up did not take away his sins.

And the general topic of discussion would be the temporal nature of the Old Testament versus the revelation of the Eternal nature as found in the new. Noah's physical life is in view, as are the physical lives of those that perished. It is contrary, in my view, to the grace of God too think everyone who died in the Flood went into eternal punishment, hence were unborn babies and children brought up. All Old Testament Saints that were saved were saved by the same grace that did not impose immediate execution of judgment on an eternal basis, tough we see physical death imposed.


God bless.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: tinanggap mo ng walang bayad
ibigay more ng walang bayad :happy:

What we mean to say is . ...
1 Corinthians: 2. 9. But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him.
10. But to us God hath revealed them, by this Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God.
12. Now we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God; that we may know the things that are given us from God.
13. Which things also we speak, not in the learned words of human wisdom; but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14. But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God; for it is foolishness to him, and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
15. But the spiritual man judgeth all things; and he himself is judged of no man.

:scarf: this the reason why we musnt speak unto our own knowledge
When
it comes to the scriptures or the holy bible
Genesis: 5. 21. And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22. And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23. And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25. And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26. And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27. And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28. And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29. And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30. And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31. And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32. And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
*
. ... Up to the point this things happened
Genesis: 10. 25. And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

God bless.

:ty:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would agree with both statements, but the question posed dealt with physical death being a penalty for believers.

Physical death is a consequence of sin, just like sickness and suffering is, thats all.. if physical death was a penalty, then everyone who died would pay for their own sin, and everyone would go to heaven.

The penalty of sin is separation from God (spiritual death)

We would have to speculate to think Noah's father and grandfather mocked Noah. Maybe they did. The point is in forgetting the Ark was a physical deliverance from judgment, rather than imposing an eternal quality to it. Noah was not saved because he built the Ark, and was not saved because he was righteous.

He was saved like everyone else. He had faith. nothing more nothing less.

He was delivered from judgment because he found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

And when he got off the Ark he offered up sacrifice for His sin...

Genesis 8:18-20King James Version (KJV)

18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:


19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.


20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.


What we can say dogmatically is that this deliverance from judgment did not negate Noah's need for Redemption through the Sacrifice for Christ.

Noah had eternal life long before the flood. The flood what God cleansing the earth to start over, not saving noah eternally. So yes, he still needed redeemed, Yet he was already saved by faith,

The offerings he offered up did not take away his sins.

agree. yes,,

And the general topic of discussion would be the temporal nature of the Old Testament versus the revelation of the Eternal nature as found in the new. Noah's physical life is in view, as are the physical lives of those that perished. It is contrary, in my view, to the grace of God too think everyone who died in the Flood went into eternal punishment, hence were unborn babies and children brought up. All Old Testament Saints that were saved were saved by the same grace that did not impose immediate execution of judgment on an eternal basis, tough we see physical death imposed.


God bless.

well I believe that if anyone else repented and got saved, they would have been on the ark with Noah. And never would have suffered Gods wrath.

God is a merciful God he has proved that, If anyone (even the babies) would have ever under ANY circumstance, had faith inn God, God would have spared their lives. like he did noahs.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

seems clear. God only intended to destroy evil. A man who was not evil and was righteous before God (saved) would not have been destroyed by the flood.

 

[notuptome]

I would agree with both statements, but the question posed dealt with physical death being a penalty for believers.

We would have to speculate to think Noah's father and grandfather mocked Noah. Maybe they did. The point is in forgetting the Ark was a physical deliverance from judgment, rather than imposing an eternal quality to it. Noah was not saved because he built the Ark, and was not saved because he was righteous.

He was delivered from judgment because he found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

And when he got off the Ark he offered up sacrifice for His sin...

Genesis 8:18-20King James Version (KJV)

18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:


19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.


20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.


What we can say dogmatically is that this deliverance from judgment did not negate Noah's need for Redemption through the Sacrifice for Christ.

The offerings he offered up did not take away his sins.

And the general topic of discussion would be the temporal nature of the Old Testament versus the revelation of the Eternal nature as found in the new. Noah's physical life is in view, as are the physical lives of those that perished. It is contrary, in my view, to the grace of God too think everyone who died in the Flood went into eternal punishment, hence were unborn babies and children brought up. All Old Testament Saints that were saved were saved by the same grace that did not impose immediate execution of judgment on an eternal basis, tough we see physical death imposed.


God bless.

I always love it when someone decides that they know better than God. One can pontificate all they want but they cannot change the fact that God is the one who judges and judges in perfect righteousness. What say we try something different and trust God to judge according to His perfect righteousness and we decide not to second guess what He is doing in the affairs of men.

Lucifer attempted to instruct God and lifted himself up to be as God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: tinanggap mo ng walang bayad
ibigay mo ng walang bayad :happy:
Matthew: 10. 8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
:sisid: FREELY YE HAVE RECEIVED, FREELY GIVE. :takbo:
What are we trying to say here is the words of god
Nothing more nothing less

Note: because some philosophers weve encountered before tells us that
if any material things were invalid unto the eyes of god
if we chooser those things rather than him (god)
Then why don't you all gave it to those people who never believed in god
Because those people value their treasures without the
feelings of guilt to god . ...

:smoke: then we said
Until that time comes . ...
We will enjoy to gave all our belongings without the feelings of guilt too
For that will be the last time our children and love ones and
Specially those people who most needs those things like
the poor who can't even read and write
because of the poverty ( not the slackers or slothful )
will enjoy those material things here in this
Reality . ...
2 Peter: 2. 3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
*THOSE PELPLE WHERE NOT AFTER TO THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS . ...
THOSE PEOPLE WERE ONLY INTERESTED IN YOUR BELONGINGS . ...
Remember not to trust anyone that says " we know where it ends " or
:rofl: Shall we say
Those people will tell you all that " the end is near " and those people would boast that " we knew how to save you all " so gather around around all your things and
Sell them and gave them to the church nor to the ministries or to the pastors :haha:

sad to say
But all of this are true . ...

God bless us all always

:ty:

 

[ukok102nak]

: : For the last time :dontknow:
:smoke: tinanggap mo ng walang bayad
ibigay mo ng walang bayad :happy:
Matthew: 10. 8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
:sisid: FREELY YE HAVE RECEIVED, FREELY GIVE. :takbo:
What are we trying to say here is the words of god
Nothing more nothing less

Note: because some philosophers weve encountered before tells us that
if any material things were invalid unto the eyes of god
if we choosed those things rather than him (god)
Then why don't you all gave it to those people who never believed in god
Because those people value their treasures without the
feelings of guilt to god . ...

:smoke: then we said
Until that time comes . ...
We will enjoy to gave all our belongings without the feelings of guilt too
For that will be the last time our children and loved ones and
Specially those people who most needs of those things like
the poor who can't even read and write
because of the poverty ( not the slackers or slothful )
will enjoy those material things here in this
Reality . ...
2 Peter: 2. 3. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
*THOSE PEOPLE
WHERE NOT AFTER TO THE SALVATION OF YOUR OUR SOULS . ...
THOSE PEOPLE WERE ONLY INTERESTED IN YOUR BELONGINGS . ...
Remember not to trust anyone that says " we know where it ends " or
:rofl: Shall we say
Those people will tell you all that " the end is near "
and those people would boast that " we knew how to save you all "
so gather around around all your things
and Sell them
and gave them to the church nor to the ministries or to the pastors :haha:

sad to say
But all of this are true . ...

God bless us all always

:ty:

 

[onlinebuddy]

God is a merciful God he has proved that, If anyone (even the babies) would have ever under ANY circumstance, had faith inn God, God would have spared their lives. like he did noahs.

What is your opinion on unborn babies and infants that died in the flood?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is your opinion on unborn babies and infants that died in the flood?

I already sad, And quoted scripture to support my theory.

~[SUP]13 [/SUP]And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

If God destroyed them, it is because they are full of evil. and would not come to faith in God no matter what God did.

We have to stop thinking in mans frame of mind, God is omniscient, He knows all.. He knows if a person would freely chose him, and knows what it would take. if a person would come, He will not let them die. he said he is willing that non should perish. so why would he let those who he KNOWS would come to him die?

 

[GodIsSalvation]

What is your opinion on unborn babies and infants that died in the flood?

They would have been doomed to live in a severely corrupted world had the Flood not happened.

Makes me think like unto the one good son of Jeroboam in 1 Kings 14. Perhaps a good story to ponder pertaining to that question.

 

[Crustyone]

What is your opinion on unborn babies and infants that died in the flood?

I agree with post#75 and although the GW version of the bible doesn't say the same thing, the NIV, in Isaiah 57:1 tells why they were destroyed. The verse: The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I already sad, And quoted scripture to support my theory.

~[SUP]13 [/SUP]And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

If God destroyed them, it is because they are full of evil. and would not come to faith in God no matter what God did.

We have to stop thinking in mans frame of mind, God is omniscient, He knows all.. He knows if a person would freely chose him, and knows what it would take. if a person would come, He will not let them die. he said he is willing that non should perish. so why would he let those who he KNOWS would come to him die?

They would have been doomed to live in a severely corrupted world had the Flood not happened.

Makes me think like unto the one good son of Jeroboam in 1 Kings 14. Perhaps a good story to ponder pertaining to that question.

I agree with post#75 and although the GW version of the bible doesn't say the same thing, the NIV, in Isaiah 57:1 tells why they were destroyed. The verse: The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil.

Above I have quoted post #74, #75 & #76
In #74, eternally-grateful seems to be saying that the unborn children and infants died because God in his foreknowledge knew that they would follow the wicked footsteps of their fathers. (not saved)

In #75, GodIsSalvation is saying that the unborn children would be doomed, had they been allowed to be born in a corrupted world. Does this mean that God foresaw that they would grow up to be unfaithful(just like Jeroboam's son)? (not saved???)

In your post, #76, you have quoted Isa 57:1 which says that God allows the righteous to perish so that they may be spared from all the evil of this world, and thus be saved.(saved!)

#74 says that the unborn babies were not saved
#75 says that the unborn babies were not saved
#76 says that they were taken from this world to keep them from corruption; therefore saved.

Please clarify. Thanks.
(To those who think we are judging: I am just asking for an opinion, not a verdict.)

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Yes, they had a grace period of 120 years to repent but never did...

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Above I have quoted post #74, #75 & #76
In #74, eternally-grateful seems to be saying that the unborn children and infants died because God in his foreknowledge knew that they would follow the wicked footsteps of their fathers. (not saved)

In #75, GodIsSalvation is saying that the unborn children would be doomed, had they been allowed to be born in a corrupted world. Does this mean that God foresaw that they would grow up to be unfaithful(just like Jeroboam's son)? (not saved???)

In your post, #76, you have quoted Isa 57:1 which says that God allows the righteous to perish so that they may be spared from all the evil of this world, and thus be saved.(saved!)

#74 says that the unborn babies were not saved
#75 says that the unborn babies were not saved
#76 says that they were taken from this world to keep them from corruption; therefore saved.

Please clarify. Thanks.
(To those who think we are judging: I am just asking for an opinion, not a verdict.)

I would think Jeroboam's son was saved from having to grow up in a wicked time of history and also because it says God found some good in that boy alone. Perhaps the same with some of the young that perished in the Flood, if there were any. Whether anyone is saved for eternity or not is not for us to decide, but God will be the judge of that being the fullness of truth and justice and mercy.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I would think Jeroboam's son was saved from having to grow up in a wicked time of history and also because it says God found some good in that boy alone. Perhaps the same with some of the young that perished in the Flood, if there were any. Whether anyone is saved for eternity or not is not for us to decide, but God will be the judge of that being the fullness of truth and justice and mercy.

Oops sorry, I missed verse 1 Kings 13:14 where the prophet said that Jeroboam's son was the only one in whom God "has found anything good." So in this case, God allowed Jeroboam's son to die in order to save him from this corrupted world. Now I understand that post #75 & #76 are in agreement with each other. I stand corrected.
Thanks GodIsSalvation, for pointing this out to me.

So, regarding the unborn children or infants who died in the flood, we conclude that: it is not possible for us to ascertain their fate.
Some on this thread are saying that God foresaw that they would be equally wicked. I wouldn't disagree with this view either.
So there is still a question mark!
Well, we've got to trust the judgement of our righteous God and let him have the final word!