Are the Scriptures plain to all Christians that read them?

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Scotth1960

Guest
"Question II. Are the Scriptures plain to all Christians that read them?
"If the Divine Scriptures were plain to all Christians that read them, the Lord would not have commanded such as desired to obtain salvation to search the same: and Paul would have said without reason that God had placed the gift of teaching in the Church; and Peter would not have said of the Epistles of Paul that they contained some things hard to be understood. It is evident, therefore, that the Scriptures are very profound, and their sense lofty; and that they need learned and divine men to search out their true meaning, and a sense that is right, and agreeable to all Scripture, and to its author the Holy Spirit.
"So that as to those that are regenerated [in Baptism], although they must know the faith concerning the Trinity, the incarnation of the Son of God, His Passion, resurrection, and ascension into the the heavens, what concerneth regeneration and judgment -- for which many have not hesitated to die -- it is not necessary, but rather impossible, that all should know what the Holy Spirit manifesteth to those alone who are exercised in wisdom and holiness. ....." (page 507: The Confession of Dositheus. 1672. CREEDS OF THE CHURCHES: A Reader in Christian Doctrine from the Bible to the Present. Third edition. John H. Leith, editor. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 1982.).

Confession of Dositheus (1672 AD), Decree II: "We believe the Divine and Sacred Scriptures to be God-taught; and, therefore, we ought to believe the same without doubting; yet not otherwise than as the Catholic Church hath interpreted and delivered the same. For every foul heresy receiveth, indeed, the Divine Scriptures, but perversely interpreteth the same, using metaphors, and homonymies [homonyms]s, and sophistries of man's wisdom, confounding what ought to be distinguished, and trifling with what ought not to be trifled with. For if (we were to receive the same) otherwise, each man holding every day a different sense concerning the same, the Catholic Church would not (as she doth) by the grace of Christ continue to be the Church until this day, holding the same doctrine of faith, and always identically and steadfastly believing, but would be rent into innumerable parties, and subject to heresies; neither would the Church be holy, the pillar and ground of the truth, without spot or wrike; but would be the Church of the malignant; as it is manifest that of the heretic undoubtedly is, and especially that of Calvin, who is not ashamed to learn from the Church, and then to wickedly repudiate her. ..." (pages 486-487: John H. Leith, editor. Creeds of the Churches: A Reader in Christian Doctrine from the Bible to the Present. Third Edition. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox, 1982.).

 
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Scotth1960

Guest

"Question II. Are the Scriptures plain to all

Christians that read them?

"If the Divine Scriptures were plain to all Christians that read them, the

Lord would not have commanded such as desired to obtain salvation to

search the same: and Paul would have said without reason that God

had placed the gift of teaching in the Church; and Peter would not have

said of the Epistles of Paul that they contained some things hard to be

understood. It is evident, therefore, that the Scriptures are very

profound, and their sense lofty; and that they need learned and divine

men to search out their true meaning, and a sense that is right, and

agreeable to all Scripture, and to its author the Holy Spirit.

"So that as to those that are regenerated [in Baptism], although they

must know the faith concerning the Trinity, the incarnation of the Son

of God, His Passion, resurrection, and ascension into the the heavens,

what concerneth regeneration and judgment -- for which many have

not hesitated to die -- it is not necessary, but rather impossible, that all

should know what the Holy Spirit manifesteth to those alone who are

exercised in wisdom and holiness. ....." (page 507: The Confession of

Dositheus. 1672. CREEDS OF THE CHURCHES: A Reader in Christian

Doctrine from the Bible to the Present. Third edition. John H. Leith,

editor. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 1982.).

Dear friends: Regarding the inspiration and authority of the Greek

Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX) Bible:

"The Deuterocanon (The Holy Bible books that the Protestants

removed from their Bible)

[The Protestants reject the Septuagint books because the Jews

reject them, and they say the unbelieving Anti-Christ Jews still have

"the oracles of God" (sic). This is false and anathema!].

"We must ... note that the Jews did not define a canon of their

Scriptures until 90 AD, that is after the coming of the Messiah. In 90

AD the Jews were no longer the true religion since they had rejected

the Messiah. Ever since Pentecost, the Church of Jesus, the Catholic

Church, was the institution endowed with all authority (cf. Matthew

16:18-19; 18:18; Ephesians 3:10; Acts !5). Therefore, what the Jews

may or may not have decided in a council after Christ in 90 AD is

irrelevant. They had lost their status as the true religion when they

rejected Jesus Christ. It has been the Orthodox Church from Pentecost

on which is the true and real "Jewish Church", that is the fulfillment and

flower of Judaism, that which Judaism was meant to be."

http:// st-takla.org

God bless us in Christ the Lord God of the New Israel, the Church.

In Erie PA USA October 7/20, 2011 AD Scott R. Harrington


 
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Saint_7

Guest
YES.......if you know who JESUS is, and accepted his salvation in ACTS 2:38 and after receiving the Holy Spirit...that means the scipture is plain and easy to understand....Because the Holy Spirit created the bible through Holy man of God...same as the holy Spirit That was with moses at mount sinai with the ten commendment and only the ten commendments and the Holy Bible through our Saviour JESUS Christ Our Lord can reconcile us back to JESUS our Lord and saviour in the kingdom of God(New Jerusalem our Heavenly Home and our mother and with our brothers and sisters living in peace). Amthat supasses all under standingen.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
YES.......if you know who JESUS is, and accepted his salvation in ACTS 2:38 and after receiving the Holy Spirit...that means the scipture is plain and easy to understand....Because the Holy Spirit created the bible through Holy man of God...same as the holy Spirit That was with moses at mount sinai with the ten commendment and only the ten commendments and the Holy Bible through our Saviour JESUS Christ Our Lord can reconcile us back to JESUS our Lord and saviour in the kingdom of God(New Jerusalem our Heavenly Home and our mother and with our brothers and sisters living in peace). Amthat supasses all under standingen.
What about 2 Peter 3:15-16, which shows plainly that some of Scripture is NOT (so) easy to understand! (?)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What about 2 Peter 3:15-16, which shows plainly that some of Scripture is NOT (so) easy to understand! (?)
What about the reason why Peter said some people miunderstand scripture? "untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. "

Untaught means they are not learned.

unstable means they are not open minded. but will listen to anyone and anything, they are the type of people who change their minds all the time.

where did Peter say this would include all people but only a select few?? and that if we are not unstable and not teachable we can truely understand Gods word ourselves?
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
What about the reason why Peter said some people miunderstand scripture? "untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. "

Untaught means they are not learned.

unstable means they are not open minded. but will listen to anyone and anything, they are the type of people who change their minds all the time.

where did Peter say this would include all people but only a select few?? and that if we are not unstable and not teachable we can truely understand Gods word ourselves?
2 Peter 3:15-16 is silent on how many people would misunderstand the Bible. But you already know that, don't you (?), since you say you understand God's word yourself.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
2 Peter 3:15-16 is silent on how many people would misunderstand the Bible. But you already know that, don't you (?), since you say you understand God's word yourself.
lol. And what does this prove Scott?

Do you have an unstable mind Scott? Are you unlearned and uneducated? If not. Peter is not talking about or too you. Which means you are perfectly capable of understanding Gods word.

If you are. That is a sad state of affairs.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
lol. And what does this prove Scott?

Do you have an unstable mind Scott? Are you unlearned and uneducated? If not. Peter is not talking about or too you. Which means you are perfectly capable of understanding Gods word.

If you are. That is a sad state of affairs.
It is simply wrong to use the Bible as a tool to attack others. You are making personal comments about I me. I didn't comment upon whether or not you have a sound mind. I didn't attack you personally. I just told you the simple, Bible based truth. The Bible does not teach justification by faith alone. The Bible does not teach interpretation of the Bible by the Bible alone. The Bible alone, minus the Holy Spirit, minus the Spirit-inspired Holy Traditions (2 Thess. 2:15; 3:6) of the One Church (Eph 4), will only lead to confusion (cf. 2 Peter 3:15-16; cf Acts 8:30-31). God bless you!
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
Hi Scott :)

The answer is yes.

1 Corinthians 2:14: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit"



So - a person that doesn't have the Holy Spirit in them will interpret the bible very differently and very incorrectly. This is why there are so many interpretations out there right now. To the non saved person, the bible is read like a regular book and the spiritual messages are not clear. It doesn't matter how intelligent the person is or how long they've studied the bible for - if you don't have the Holy Spirit in you then you cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. Once a person has the light in them, they understand the spiritual message in the way it was intended, because the Holy Spirit guides us and has opened our eyes to the truth.

John 14:26: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you"



To go one step further, imagine this - if your priest does not have the Holy Spirit in him and he preaches to you, he is feeding you his interpretation, from himself and not of the HS!! Therefore, he cannot be trusted at all. The problem also arises when non saved people use scripture and twist it out of context to make it fit with their religion or beliefs. This happens a lot. I see religions that twist scripture to defend why they do certain things. You can't do that. It's wrong. Also, it deceives others. Everything should be comparable to the bible. Period.


1 John 4:1: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world"

(So - compare your church to the bible. Compare what someone says to the bible. You will know who the false prophets and churches are when you do just that)


Kate*
 
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prophecyman

Guest
Firstly... Study to show yourself approved of God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Tim. 2:15
Secondly... And he gave some Apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. Eph. 4:12
Thirdly... The Bereans “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

And finally... It is everyone's responsibility to study Gods holy word and be assured of those things which he has heard.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is simply wrong to use the Bible as a tool to attack others. You are making personal comments about I me. I didn't comment upon whether or not you have a sound mind. I didn't attack you personally. I just told you the simple, Bible based truth.

As did I scott. The bible says only people who do not have a sound mind and are unlearned will get the bible wrong. You say you can not trust yourself to interpret. so you must be saying (according to Gods word) you have them. How else should interpret what you say?
The Bible does not teach justification by faith alone.
yes It does scott. Paul taught it over and over and over. Your taking ONE verse where James speaks to licentious people who think it is ok just to believe and say a few words. but live their life however they want with no works. as james calls them, 'hearers of the word and not doers" who he said had a dead faith (meaning no faith at all) and using this to prove your point. If you can't see this. I can't help you, nor can anyone else)

The Bible does not teach interpretation of the Bible by the Bible alone. The Bible alone, minus the Holy Spirit, minus the Spirit-inspired Holy Traditions (2 Thess. 2:15; 3:6) of the One Church (Eph 4), will only lead to confusion (cf. 2 Peter 3:15-16; cf Acts 8:30-31). God bless you!
you have the first two right Scott. the last one can not be known by anyone unless the church es doctrines line up with scripture. The EO's doctrines do not. thats all I need to know.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
As did I scott. The bible says only people who do not have a sound mind and are unlearned will get the bible wrong. You say you can not trust yourself to interpret. so you must be saying (according to Gods word) you have them. How else should interpret what you say? yes It does scott. Paul taught it over and over and over. Your taking ONE verse where James speaks to licentious people who think it is ok just to believe and say a few words. but live their life however they want with no works. as james calls them, 'hearers of the word and not doers" who he said had a dead faith (meaning no faith at all) and using this to prove your point. If you can't see this. I can't help you, nor can anyone else)

you have the first two right Scott. the last one can not be known by anyone unless the church es doctrines line up with scripture. The EO's doctrines do not. thats all I need to know.
Sadly, you do not know what you need to know, or you would believe the Orthodox Faith.
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 28:19
Mark 16:16
John 3:16
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:13
John 17:15
Acts 2:38
1 Cor. 13:13
Ephesians 2:8-10
Gal. 5:6
1 Timothy 2:4
1 Timothy 3:15
Titus 2:5
2 Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6
2 Peter 3:9
2 Peter 3:15-16
1 John 5:7
Jude 3
Isaiah 53:11 NIV
Isaiah 8:16,20 KJV
Isaiah 9:6 OSB SAAS
etc.
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sadly, you do not know what you need to know, or you would believe the Orthodox Faith.
Matthew 16:18
Matthew 28:19
Mark 16:16
John 3:16
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:13
John 17:15
Acts 2:38
1 Cor. 13:13
Ephesians 2:8-10
Gal. 5:6
1 Timothy 2:4
1 Timothy 3:15
Titus 2:5
2 Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6
2 Peter 3:9
2 Peter 3:15-16
1 John 5:7
Jude 3
Isaiah 53:11 NIV
Isaiah 8:16,20 KJV
Isaiah 9:6 OSB SAAS
etc.
God bless you.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington


Sadly you don't know SCRIPTURE or you would not be of the orthodox faith.

You think a few verses taken out of context are going to change my mind Scott? I am not gullible like the jewish people were who listened to their religious leaders blindly. You go ahead and do that. I will chose to follow God, HThe Holy SPirit's guidance. and recieve the faith he gave me.

I have a faith in things unseen (Hebrews 12) You have faith in men. which is no faith at all because you can see them!
 
Aug 18, 2011
392
0
0
Sadly you don't know SCRIPTURE or you would not be of the orthodox faith.

You think a few verses taken out of context are going to change my mind Scott? I am not gullible like the jewish people were who listened to their religious leaders blindly. You go ahead and do that. I will chose to follow God, HThe Holy SPirit's guidance. and recieve the faith he gave me.

I have a faith in things unseen (Hebrews 12) You have faith in men. which is no faith at all because you can see them!

1. How do you know that its not your own ego that you follow rather than the "holy Spirit"?

2. Jesus Himself was a man and the Apostles taught us to obey the teachers who oversee us in the Lord, they also told us to be subjected to one another because the Lord resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.


"Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (1 Peter 5:5)
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
Sadly you don't know SCRIPTURE or you would not be of the orthodox faith.

You think a few verses taken out of context are going to change my mind Scott? I am not gullible like the jewish people were who listened to their religious leaders blindly. You go ahead and do that. I will chose to follow God, HThe Holy SPirit's guidance. and recieve the faith he gave me.

I have a faith in things unseen (Hebrews 12) You have faith in men. which is no faith at all because you can see them!
Sadly, it is you who don't know, believe, or care what the Scriptures teach, and you don't know, believe, or care about John 15:26, or you would believe in the Orthodox Christian Faith. That is just one verse that points the way home to the truth about the Orthodox Church.
But a word to the wise is sufficient.
You don't follow the God of the Bible, but your own Protestant tradition based on Martin Luther's ego. You say you don't follow men, but your favorite doctrine, safety by "faith alone", is taught by Martin Luther, but not by Saint Paul of the other Christian Apostles of the NT.
You just are too blinded by your own self-popish pride to see that.
I am not a right person. I'm full of errors. But I've been blessed by God to know where to look for correct answers about Christian theology. And where I should move on to trust and receive sacraments and grace from on High. Only in the Orthodox Church can we hope to find the real, true, and living God, in the Church of the living God, the EOC.
God bless you.
Of course, you have failed to understand Romans 3:28, just as you fail to appreciate the significance of John 15:26 as a signpost to direct people to the Orthodox Faith. This error of the West and Augustine paved the way for your idolization and individualistic egocentric misuse of the Holy Bible as the center of all your arguments: you want to accept the Word of God, and reject the Church that gave you the Word of God. You falsely believe the Word of God can be rightly understood outside of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and the place where Christ has given His Holy Spirit.
God bless you. God have mercy on us sinners; on me a sinner.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington Friday October 15/28, 2011 AD