Are there prophets today, or just profits?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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If Joel & Acts both show that all believers will prophesy, why should The RCC or anyone else declare otherwise?
Let God be true & every man a liar, as it is written.
The only reason we have difficulty with this is because the church has went so far downhill thru the centuries.
We've fell so far that "highly authorized religious men" have overruled God.
Let God be true & every man a liar, as it is written.
The only reason we have difficulty with this is because the church has went so far downhill thru the centuries.
We've fell so far that "highly authorized religious men" have overruled God.
[HR][/HR]
The whole thing about the "12 apostle onlyists" is the scriptures themselves prove it is a lie.
WHY would Paul put apostles in this list as a permanent part of church ministry if he was the last apostle?!?
Annnd Prophets?!?
Another list of ministries
Aaaagain, no "12"
Ephesians 4
11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[SUP]c[/SUP] and teachers,[SUP]d[/SUP]12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[SUP]e[/SUP] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
WHY would Paul put apostles in this list as a permanent part of church ministry if he was the last apostle?!?
Annnd Prophets?!?
1 Corinthians 12
27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way.
Another list of ministries
Luke 11
45One of the lawyers answered him, “Teacher, in saying these things you insult us also.” 46And he said, “Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers.47Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed.48So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs.49Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.52Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”Aaaagain, no "12"
Ephesians 3
1For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6This mystery is[SUP]a[/SUP] that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.I would offer..Keeping in mind the principle of the poetic language of the Holy Spirit that he not only sent his word but "signified it" giving the unseen spiritual understanding hid from natural unconverted man (Revelation1:1
It would seem the literalist that must walk by sight in respect to a kingdom that comes by observation has all but eliminated the faith principle in respect to the unseen eternal.(no faith)
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mar 4:11-12
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Mat 13:34
Twelve is the number word God chose to be used in a parables represent his unseen authority as to whatever is in view.
Whether it is twelve apostles as sent ones or twelve tribes as gates, twelve as a legions of angels, or twelve baskets of bread , etc.
The twelve apostle a remnant of all listed in the new (28) used , has nothing with them personally but again it’s what they represent to be used as a metaphor to its conclusion, the bride of Christ as new creatures.
Therefore adding any other kind of meaning to that like “the twelve were the greatest” or “the twelve were special “because they saw the temporal flesh of the Son of man destroys the one purpose for the word twelve.
The twelve apostles as walls are used represent the wife of the city prepared as His bride the church, just as the twelve tribes describe the same bride in a different way as gates where His prophet/apostles( (sent ones) come and go as those sent with the good news.
God removed one of each description (walls and gates) to represent the letter of the law that kills using the phrase .fall back or backwards to indicate they were under the fiery judgement of God.
Just as Judas is removed from the description of His bride the church in Revelation 21 , the same applies to the word Dan (Dan = "a judge")
Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Gen 49:16-17
The key fall back or backward to indicate men are under judgment .The Adder represent the poison of the false gospel of works righteousness .
A few examples of the use of the word fall back or backward..
1Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years. Gen 49:16
Psalms 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Psalms 70:2 Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.
Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isaiah 44:25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;
Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Lamentations 1:8 Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honoured her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
And using the other example (Judas) 13-1 =12
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
It would seem the literalist that must walk by sight in respect to a kingdom that comes by observation has all but eliminated the faith principle in respect to the unseen eternal.(no faith)
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mar 4:11-12
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Mat 13:34
Twelve is the number word God chose to be used in a parables represent his unseen authority as to whatever is in view.
Whether it is twelve apostles as sent ones or twelve tribes as gates, twelve as a legions of angels, or twelve baskets of bread , etc.
The twelve apostle a remnant of all listed in the new (28) used , has nothing with them personally but again it’s what they represent to be used as a metaphor to its conclusion, the bride of Christ as new creatures.
Therefore adding any other kind of meaning to that like “the twelve were the greatest” or “the twelve were special “because they saw the temporal flesh of the Son of man destroys the one purpose for the word twelve.
The twelve apostles as walls are used represent the wife of the city prepared as His bride the church, just as the twelve tribes describe the same bride in a different way as gates where His prophet/apostles( (sent ones) come and go as those sent with the good news.
God removed one of each description (walls and gates) to represent the letter of the law that kills using the phrase .fall back or backwards to indicate they were under the fiery judgement of God.
Just as Judas is removed from the description of His bride the church in Revelation 21 , the same applies to the word Dan (Dan = "a judge")
Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Gen 49:16-17
The key fall back or backward to indicate men are under judgment .The Adder represent the poison of the false gospel of works righteousness .
A few examples of the use of the word fall back or backward..
1Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years. Gen 49:16
Psalms 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Psalms 70:2 Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.
Isaiah 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isaiah 44:25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;
Isaiah 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
Lamentations 1:8 Jerusalem hath grievously sinned; therefore she is removed: all that honoured her despise her, because they have seen her nakedness: yea, she sigheth, and turneth backward.
And using the other example (Judas) 13-1 =12
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
The nonsense is once again. Scripture is wrong: Because Nehemiah6 said so.
Nehemiah6, is claiming: The God breathed Holy Spirit inspired scripture's are wrong! All eleven Apostle's are wrong! The KJV is wrong! Good luck continuing with your false teaching.
Acts 1:
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
(NOTE: ""They appointed!"" All eleven Apostles are there, see vs 6)
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
(NOTE: All eleven Apostles prayed completely trusting God)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
(NOTE: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias (NOT PAUL) were prayed over to fill Judas place)
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(NOTE: Acts 1:26 clerly teaches: Matthias replaced Judas ""NOT"" Paul!)
Nehemiah6, is claiming: The God breathed Holy Spirit inspired scripture's are wrong! All eleven Apostle's are wrong! The KJV is wrong! Good luck continuing with your false teaching.
Acts 1:
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
(NOTE: ""They appointed!"" All eleven Apostles are there, see vs 6)
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
(NOTE: All eleven Apostles prayed completely trusting God)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
(NOTE: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias (NOT PAUL) were prayed over to fill Judas place)
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(NOTE: Acts 1:26 clerly teaches: Matthias replaced Judas ""NOT"" Paul!)
That's interesting .One sent. which could be used in the idea of someone sending another the the grocery store with a list or words of another . What was he a fill as or for? Who sent him?
He would seem to be like Dan (13-1 =12) one of the tribes missing in the description found in revelations used as one that betrays another..
Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.Gen 49:16
Joh 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
Mat 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
Do we compare the spiritual understanding of the parables in respect to the use of the number thirteen as a betrayer.?
They both cause a person to fall back like slain in the spirit. Or do we ignore the parable ?
They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they wentbackward, and fell to the ground.Joh 18:5
Interestingly that he uses His creative power of His tongue as a work of his faith (belief) in order to move men in the direction he wills.
Powerful verse, power gospel from faith to faith as the same spirit of faith as the gospel is written.
Who send Judas as a fill in or was he replaced with Matthias = "gift of God" ?
[IMG said:
http://christianchat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png[/IMG] Originally Posted by Nehemiah6
But, I can see that the end of the age of law was with Mathias taking the place of Judas by the works of men, which is law. And the body of Christ, a whole new revelation, came then with Paul. Except that there cannot be a "point" since there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, not thirteen (a number which has negative connotations in Scripture as well as in general).
Heb _3:1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the """Apostle and High Priest""" of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Just proof that there are more then 12 Apostles. BTW, no one (except you) has said that Paul will or will not have a Pearly Gate with his name on it. Perhaps you'd be gracious (LOL) enough to provide the scripture that shows who's & where the names on each Gate are. Thx, in advance.
If I could add. The greek word apostle........Old English apostol, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek apostolos ‘messenger,’ from apostell in ‘send forth.’
e
It is a synonym for the Hebrew word shalach {shaw-lakh'} send forth.
Strongs lexicon....07971 shalach {shaw-lakh'} a primitive root; TWOT - 2394; v
AV - send 566, go 73, (send, put,...) forth 54, send away 48, lay 14, send out 12, put 10, put away 7, cast out 7, stretch out 5, cast 5, set 5, put out 4, depart 4, soweth 3, loose 3, misc 22; 847
1) to send, send away, let go, stretch out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to send 1a2) to stretch out, extend, direct 1a3) to send away 1a4) to let loose 1b) (Niphal) to be sent 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to send off or away or out or forth, dismiss, give over, cast out 1c2) to let go, set free 1c3) to shoot forth (of branches) 1c4) to let down 1c5) to shoot 1d) (Pual) to be sent off, be put away, be divorced, be impelled 1e) (Hiphil) to send
I can, I believe exchange the (two) and it does not change the meanings.. Apostles were used to represent walls in respect to the new testament believer (the bride of Christ the church) just as tribes were used to represent gates of those who had the Spirit of Christ on the other side of the cross, the bride of Christ the church .
2Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle (shalach) were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
The signs of God that they were sent (apostilled) with showed the same kind of signs and wonders (to different principles)
He sent (apostle) Moses his servant; and (apostle) Aaron whom he had chosen.They shewed his signs among them, and wonders in the land of Ham. Psa 105:26
I would think many words are used in that way. One to represent the temporal literal as that seen, the other the spiritual (hid in parables ) not seen, the eternal faith principle
All believers as kingdom of priest are prophets/apostles as Ambassadors for our Savior sent with (apostilled)the existing word of God as the same spirit of faith according as it is written.
2Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
I would think it is the father of lies that would have other men lift of the apostles as equal to the same spirit of faith as it is written, as a form of pride.That would take away the law that it is God who makes men different from one another.
The apotles knew who gave them gifts that worked in them (not of their own selves) not as those who require a sign before they believe..
e
It is a synonym for the Hebrew word shalach {shaw-lakh'} send forth.
Strongs lexicon....07971 shalach {shaw-lakh'} a primitive root; TWOT - 2394; v
AV - send 566, go 73, (send, put,...) forth 54, send away 48, lay 14, send out 12, put 10, put away 7, cast out 7, stretch out 5, cast 5, set 5, put out 4, depart 4, soweth 3, loose 3, misc 22; 847
1) to send, send away, let go, stretch out 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to send 1a2) to stretch out, extend, direct 1a3) to send away 1a4) to let loose 1b) (Niphal) to be sent 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to send off or away or out or forth, dismiss, give over, cast out 1c2) to let go, set free 1c3) to shoot forth (of branches) 1c4) to let down 1c5) to shoot 1d) (Pual) to be sent off, be put away, be divorced, be impelled 1e) (Hiphil) to send
I can, I believe exchange the (two) and it does not change the meanings.. Apostles were used to represent walls in respect to the new testament believer (the bride of Christ the church) just as tribes were used to represent gates of those who had the Spirit of Christ on the other side of the cross, the bride of Christ the church .
2Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle (shalach) were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
The signs of God that they were sent (apostilled) with showed the same kind of signs and wonders (to different principles)
He sent (apostle) Moses his servant; and (apostle) Aaron whom he had chosen.They shewed his signs among them, and wonders in the land of Ham. Psa 105:26
I would think many words are used in that way. One to represent the temporal literal as that seen, the other the spiritual (hid in parables ) not seen, the eternal faith principle
All believers as kingdom of priest are prophets/apostles as Ambassadors for our Savior sent with (apostilled)the existing word of God as the same spirit of faith according as it is written.
2Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
I would think it is the father of lies that would have other men lift of the apostles as equal to the same spirit of faith as it is written, as a form of pride.That would take away the law that it is God who makes men different from one another.
The apotles knew who gave them gifts that worked in them (not of their own selves) not as those who require a sign before they believe..
As I mentioned, I would respond to this comment. There is no "theory" about Paul being the apostle who replaced Judas. The Bible makes it perfectly clear for those who have spiritual discernment. Here is the evidence:
Why Paul is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] Apostle
1. The first thing Christians should understand is that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, corresponding to the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:14): And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
2. This is further confirmed by the fact that in Christ’s future Kingdom on earth, the twelve apostles will have twelve thrones and will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Mt 19:27,28): Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
3. Judas was never a genuine apostle, betrayed Christ, and vacated his apostleship. He was chosen in order to fulfil the prophecies regarding the betrayal of Christ (Acts 1:16): Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
4. The remaining eleven apostles had not been empowered by the Holy Spirit at the time that they decided to cast lots for a fill-in for Judas (Acts 1:4): And, being assembled together with them, [Christ] commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. They were supposed to wait until the day of Pentecost, which would be ten days later. So this was not a commissioning of the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle by Christ Himself, although He allowed this.
5. There were two men who were potential candidates, and it was only by lot that Matthias came to be chosen (Acts 1:26): And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
It should be carefully noted that after this Matthias is ABSENT from the New Testament record, whereas Paul dominates the Acts of the Apostles and writes over half the New Testament Scriptures! And there cannot be 13 apostles!
6. God already had another plan to complete the number of apostles, and He had chosen Paul (formerly Saul) from his mother’s womb (Gal 1:15,16): But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
This is a very powerful statement, which is generally ignored by the naysayers. If God had chosen this man to be an apostle even before he was born, how dare anyone deny the fact that he is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle?
7. Because of this the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to Paul personally while he was traveling to Damascus, and converted him from Saul the persecutor of Christians to Paul His faithful apostle. The account of Saul’s conversion is in Acts 8:1-31 and Acts 22:1-21, but the details of his commissioning as an apostle are given in Acts 26:14-18: And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
8. The apostle Peter has confirmed that all of Paul’s epistles are Scripture (2 Pet 3:15,16). Therefore each time we read one of his epistles, we are reading the Word of God – God’s words. And it is through the words of God that we are told again and again that Paul is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle:
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God (Rom 1:1)
Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother (1 Cor 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia (2 Cor 1:1)
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead (Gal 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus [our] brother (Col 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which] is our hope (1 Tim 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim 1:1)
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness (Tit 1:1)
If all of this is not enough to establish that Paul is indeed the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle of Jesus Christ, then nothing is. Those who will acknowledge the truth will accept this. Those who will not choose to be wilfully blind, and there is no remedy for that.
Why Paul is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] Apostle
1. The first thing Christians should understand is that there are only twelve apostles of the Lamb, corresponding to the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:14): And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
2. This is further confirmed by the fact that in Christ’s future Kingdom on earth, the twelve apostles will have twelve thrones and will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Mt 19:27,28): Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
3. Judas was never a genuine apostle, betrayed Christ, and vacated his apostleship. He was chosen in order to fulfil the prophecies regarding the betrayal of Christ (Acts 1:16): Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
4. The remaining eleven apostles had not been empowered by the Holy Spirit at the time that they decided to cast lots for a fill-in for Judas (Acts 1:4): And, being assembled together with them, [Christ] commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. They were supposed to wait until the day of Pentecost, which would be ten days later. So this was not a commissioning of the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle by Christ Himself, although He allowed this.
5. There were two men who were potential candidates, and it was only by lot that Matthias came to be chosen (Acts 1:26): And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
It should be carefully noted that after this Matthias is ABSENT from the New Testament record, whereas Paul dominates the Acts of the Apostles and writes over half the New Testament Scriptures! And there cannot be 13 apostles!
6. God already had another plan to complete the number of apostles, and He had chosen Paul (formerly Saul) from his mother’s womb (Gal 1:15,16): But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
This is a very powerful statement, which is generally ignored by the naysayers. If God had chosen this man to be an apostle even before he was born, how dare anyone deny the fact that he is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle?
7. Because of this the Lord Jesus Christ appeared to Paul personally while he was traveling to Damascus, and converted him from Saul the persecutor of Christians to Paul His faithful apostle. The account of Saul’s conversion is in Acts 8:1-31 and Acts 22:1-21, but the details of his commissioning as an apostle are given in Acts 26:14-18: And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
8. The apostle Peter has confirmed that all of Paul’s epistles are Scripture (2 Pet 3:15,16). Therefore each time we read one of his epistles, we are reading the Word of God – God’s words. And it is through the words of God that we are told again and again that Paul is the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle:
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God (Rom 1:1)
Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother (1 Cor 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia (2 Cor 1:1)
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead (Gal 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus [our] brother (Col 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which] is our hope (1 Tim 1:1)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim 1:1)
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness (Tit 1:1)
If all of this is not enough to establish that Paul is indeed the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] apostle of Jesus Christ, then nothing is. Those who will acknowledge the truth will accept this. Those who will not choose to be wilfully blind, and there is no remedy for that.
Nehemiah6, You're the one that keeps posting (MANY TIMES) the LIE that Paul replaced Judas.
2ndly No one ever claimed that Paul wasn't an Apostle. You have been challenged repeatedly on the false teaching that Paul replaced Judas. Post the scriptrue that says Paul replaced Matthias.
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(NOTE: God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired scripture teaches (KJV), Matthias was NUMBERED WITH THE ELEVEN APOSTLES. To replace Judas.)
Nehemiah6, pulling unrelated verses from Rev 21 or anywhere else. And falsely claiming/spinning that they say, Paul replaced Judas (WHEN THEY DON'T) is FALSE TEACHING - A MADE UP LIE - and adds (BECAUSE YOU SAY SO) to God's Breathed Word. Good luck with that.
The only thing you've established is you are a heretic. I saw you falsely accuse a loving sister of being a heretic. Because you didn't like a preacher she listened to. You said you had, had told her to stop posting heresy's (WHO ARE YOU) You posted that you'd reported her to CC. And asked that she be removed from the site.
Fair is fair, if I see you post this false teaching again. I will follow your lead & report your post. Asking that you be removed from the site.
2ndly No one ever claimed that Paul wasn't an Apostle. You have been challenged repeatedly on the false teaching that Paul replaced Judas. Post the scriptrue that says Paul replaced Matthias.
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(NOTE: God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired scripture teaches (KJV), Matthias was NUMBERED WITH THE ELEVEN APOSTLES. To replace Judas.)
Nehemiah6, pulling unrelated verses from Rev 21 or anywhere else. And falsely claiming/spinning that they say, Paul replaced Judas (WHEN THEY DON'T) is FALSE TEACHING - A MADE UP LIE - and adds (BECAUSE YOU SAY SO) to God's Breathed Word. Good luck with that.
The only thing you've established is you are a heretic. I saw you falsely accuse a loving sister of being a heretic. Because you didn't like a preacher she listened to. You said you had, had told her to stop posting heresy's (WHO ARE YOU) You posted that you'd reported her to CC. And asked that she be removed from the site.
Fair is fair, if I see you post this false teaching again. I will follow your lead & report your post. Asking that you be removed from the site.
The apostle Paul one of the many, many ten thousands of thousands of those sent by God. is not one of the twelve used to describe his bride the church just as in the exact same the tribe Dan was not used to represent gates of the same city prepared as the wife of Christ. .
It’s never about the person as if God was served by human hands but is about the position used as a shadow or type of the hidden glory .. Judas an apostle for the father of lies was removed by the Holy Spirit and replaced with Matthias the name the holy Spirit named him for the one time purpose, (Matthias = "gift of God")
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Act 1:25
The inspired lot did not fall on Paul.
Why are you stuck on the Paul thingamajiggy ? Do you think God is a respecter of persons?
It’s never about the person as if God was served by human hands but is about the position used as a shadow or type of the hidden glory .. Judas an apostle for the father of lies was removed by the Holy Spirit and replaced with Matthias the name the holy Spirit named him for the one time purpose, (Matthias = "gift of God")
That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Act 1:25
The inspired lot did not fall on Paul.
Why are you stuck on the Paul thingamajiggy ? Do you think God is a respecter of persons?
I agree with you. Paul didn't consider himself to be one of the twelve:
He was seen by Peter and then by the Twelve. For I am the least of all the apostles. In fact, I’m not even worthy to be called an apostle after the way I persecuted God’s church.
1 Corinthians 15:5*, 9 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/1co.15.5-9.NLT
But I think Nehemiah6 is rightly concerned that there are self appointed "Apostles" who claim they teach new things with the authority that equals Scripture.
He was seen by Peter and then by the Twelve. For I am the least of all the apostles. In fact, I’m not even worthy to be called an apostle after the way I persecuted God’s church.
1 Corinthians 15:5*, 9 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/1co.15.5-9.NLT
But I think Nehemiah6 is rightly concerned that there are self appointed "Apostles" who claim they teach new things with the authority that equals Scripture.