Are You Rapture Ready?

[NightTwister]

It's not about just preaching the gospel, but every nation bearing witness of Lord Jesus. Ironically, the last one would be modern Israel, for it was declared - "See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

So you're changing the meaning to fit your eschatology? How convenient.

 

[Lovette]

So you're changing the meaning to fit your eschatology? How convenient.

What meaning have I changed, friend? Preaching the gospel to every nation is one thing, making DISCIPLES of every nation is quite another. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The Lord will return when his Great Commission is completed.

 

[the_seeker]

No one knows the time or the date or even the year.

It might be tomorrow, it might be next year, it might even be 1000 years ahead.
No one knows.

 

[Edward429451]

I don't like to do it in any thread when there's no valid biblical argument, only taunting, question begging, strawmanning and name calling.

That's actually a pretty good answer. A wee bit rude perhaps since I said let's not debate that here, but whatever.

Ok if this isnt that thread, then give me a post trib scripture. Start it off right...?? I have all me pre trib notes right beside me, I'm ready.

 

[Lovette]

That's actually a pretty good answer. A wee bit rude perhaps since I said let's not debate that here, but whatever.

Ok if this isnt that thread, then give me a post trib scripture. Start it off right...?? I have all me pre trib notes right beside me, I'm ready.

See below.

Thread 'The resurrection must precedes the rapture'

Feb 25, 2026

Although this is a controversial topic, I have to lift it off my chest. Most objections against the rapture doctrine are what the term "rapture" means, whether it exists in the bible, whether it was newly invented, whether it creates a "third" coming of Christ, but the real fallacy, as I've noticed, lies within its timing in the rapture narrative, which is predominantly taught as pre-trib. Rapture doctrine's one and only valid prooftext is 1 Thess. 4:17 where the term "caught up" is found, and in the previous verse is hope of resurrection.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven...

• Lovette
• Replies: 86
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

• 
• 

 

[Edward429451]

See below.

Thread 'The resurrection must precedes the rapture'

Feb 25, 2026

Although this is a controversial topic, I have to lift it off my chest. Most objections against the rapture doctrine are what the term "rapture" means, whether it exists in the bible, whether it was newly invented, whether it creates a "third" coming of Christ, but the real fallacy, as I've noticed, lies within its timing in the rapture narrative, which is predominantly taught as pre-trib. Rapture doctrine's one and only valid prooftext is 1 Thess. 4:17 where the term "caught up" is found, and in the previous verse is hope of resurrection.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven...

• Lovette
• Replies: 86
• Forum: Bible Discussion Forum

• 
• 

That's a pre trib scripture. If the rapture isn't until after the great trib, then what do I do with all these scriptures that I have, which your premise must agree with because all acripture agrees with all of scripture.

Believers who know Jesus were never meant to go through the Great Tribb ir exoerience God's wrath: 1 Thess. 1:10 Rev 3:10 1 Thess 5:3 1 Thess 5:9

We go "home" at the rapture: Isaiah 26:19-21

 

[Edward429451]

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try fthose who dwell on the earth..../KJV

How much more clear can it get?

 

[Psalm1]

1 Thess. 4:16, Rev. 20:5. As long as you take the word "first" literally, it's post trib.

 

[Psalm1]

Lovette said:
"1 Thess. 4:16, Rev. 20:5. As long as you take the word "first" literally, it's post trib"


At some point, you need to make a case for a postrib rapture.
Your use of "first" is not the smoking gun you need.
Postrib talking points do not erase scripture.

 

[Psalm1]

If you insist to disregard Rev. 20, alright, take the Lord's own prophecy. You tell me what "the hour is coming" is referring to, if not his second coming.

The sequence of events is clear - removal of the Restrainer; revealing of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:7-8); 3.5 year great tribulation; second coming (Matt. 24:29); FIRST resurrection; rapture, as gathering; judgement,

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice; and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." (Jn. 5:24-30)

Pretrib doctrine embraces your verses.

Your spin on Rev 20 is unbiblical.
You invented that concept of a resurrection at the start of the millineum.
That false concept started with the NIV spin.
Unbiblical and ridiculous.

The general resurrection you are pointing to is AFTER THE MIL.

Now you are spinning the rapture OF THE BRIDE TO be AFTER THE MIL.

Your deal is impossible.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try fthose who dwell on the earth..../KJV

How much more clear can it get?

That was a promise to the church at Philadelphia. None of them got raptured. Eleven of them were martyred instead. So what did God mean by that promise?

God protected their faith! And had done so - the eleven died by burning along with Polycarp.

This is Polycarp enduring in the Lord. This is how we should stand against the antichrist:

But as Polycarp entered the stadium, a voice from heaven came to him, “Be strong, Polycarp—be a man!” No one saw the speaker, but our people who were there heard the voice.

.....

But the proconsul was insistent, and said, “Swear the oath and I will let you go! Revile Christ!”

Polycarp replied, “Eighty–six years I have served him, and he has never wronged me. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?”

But the proconsul continued to insist, saying, “Swear by the genius of Caesar!” So Polycarp replied, “If you vainly expect that I will swear by the genius of Caesar, as you say, and pretend that you do not know who I am, then listen carefully: I am a Christian. Now if you want to learn the teaching of Christianity, appoint a day, and give me a proper hearing.”

The proconsul replied: “Persuade the people.”

But Polycarp said, “You I could count worthy of a response, for we have been taught to appropriately respect rulers and authorities appointed by God as long as it does us no harm. As to bringing a defense to them, I do not consider them worthy.”

The proconsul said, “I have wild beasts. I will throw you to them unless you turn away!”

He said, “Call them. Repentance from better to worse is impossible for us; but it is good to turn away from those things that are evil and toward those that are righteous.”

Again he said to him, “I will have you consumed by fire since you don’t care about wild beasts. Unless you turn!”

Polycarp replied, “You threaten with fire that burns for an hour then soon is extinguished, for you do not know about the coming judgment and the eternal punishment reserved for the ungodly. So why do you delay? Bring on what you want.”

As he spoke these and many other words, he was filled with courage and joy, and his face was filled with grace. So not only did he not collapse in terror at the things said to him, but on the contrary, the proconsul was astonished, and sent his own herald into the middle of the stadium to announce three times: “Polycarp has confessed that he is a Christian.”

.....

They were about to nail him, but he said, “Leave me like this, for the one who gives strength to endure the fire will also give me strength to remain unmoved on the pyre without the security you get from nails.”

So they did not nail him, but tied him instead. After his hands were tied behind him, he looked like a splendid ram from a great flock, a burnt offering ready and acceptable to God. He gazed toward heaven and spoke:

“Lord God Almighty,Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge of you, God of angels and powers and every created thing, and of the whole race of the righteous who live in your presence. I bless you because you have counted me worthy of this day and hour, to take a place among the number of the martyrs in the cup of your Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, in the incorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. May I be received among them in your presence today as a rich and acceptable sacrifice, just as you previously prepared and now have fulfilled, oh undeceiving and true God. I praise you for this and for everything. I bless you, I glorify you, through the eternal and heavenly high priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom to you with him and the Holy Spirit be glory both now and in the ages to come. Amen.“


People who belong to God will endure to the end:

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."


🕊

 

[Psalm1]

Then you're in denial. I read NKJV, never NIV. Have a good day, god bless.

The NIV erroneous spin agrees with you.

They DID what You ARE DOING.

Spinning verses.

 

[Edward429451]

What meaning have I changed, friend?

Well you posted 1 Thess 4:17 as if it represents after the Great trib and that is incorrect. That is a rapture (pre trib) scripture. Actually its verse 14 through the end of the chapter verse 18.

Remember that our salvation is patterned after a Hebrew wedding. They have the betrothal and the price is paid, then the groom leaves to His Fathers house...to prepare a place for her. His return is at no specific time and she must be ready. When He arrives He takes her (raptures her) and takes her home (Isaiah 26:19-21) where the wedding ceremony is help and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb! That's not on earth.

You need to address those scriptures that I posted. In the other threads, no one ever addresses these scriptures! So if you want to do this then let's do it and I am asking to start with those scriptures, look them all up and read them....and respond to them. Prove me wrong. I'm ready friend!

 

[Psalm1]

That was a promise to the church at Philadelphia. None of them got raptured. Eleven of them were martyred instead. So what did God mean by that promise?

God protected their faith! And had done so - the eleven died by burning along with Polycarp.

This is Polycarp enduring in the Lord. This is how we should stand against the antichrist:

But as Polycarp entered the stadium, a voice from heaven came to him, “Be strong, Polycarp—be a man!” No one saw the speaker, but our people who were there heard the voice.

.....

But the proconsul was insistent, and said, “Swear the oath and I will let you go! Revile Christ!”

Polycarp replied, “Eighty–six years I have served him, and he has never wronged me. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?”

But the proconsul continued to insist, saying, “Swear by the genius of Caesar!” So Polycarp replied, “If you vainly expect that I will swear by the genius of Caesar, as you say, and pretend that you do not know who I am, then listen carefully: I am a Christian. Now if you want to learn the teaching of Christianity, appoint a day, and give me a proper hearing.”

The proconsul replied: “Persuade the people.”

But Polycarp said, “You I could count worthy of a response, for we have been taught to appropriately respect rulers and authorities appointed by God as long as it does us no harm. As to bringing a defense to them, I do not consider them worthy.”

The proconsul said, “I have wild beasts. I will throw you to them unless you turn away!”

He said, “Call them. Repentance from better to worse is impossible for us; but it is good to turn away from those things that are evil and toward those that are righteous.”

Again he said to him, “I will have you consumed by fire since you don’t care about wild beasts. Unless you turn!”

Polycarp replied, “You threaten with fire that burns for an hour then soon is extinguished, for you do not know about the coming judgment and the eternal punishment reserved for the ungodly. So why do you delay? Bring on what you want.”

As he spoke these and many other words, he was filled with courage and joy, and his face was filled with grace. So not only did he not collapse in terror at the things said to him, but on the contrary, the proconsul was astonished, and sent his own herald into the middle of the stadium to announce three times: “Polycarp has confessed that he is a Christian.”

.....

They were about to nail him, but he said, “Leave me like this, for the one who gives strength to endure the fire will also give me strength to remain unmoved on the pyre without the security you get from nails.”

So they did not nail him, but tied him instead. After his hands were tied behind him, he looked like a splendid ram from a great flock, a burnt offering ready and acceptable to God. He gazed toward heaven and spoke:

“Lord God Almighty,Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge of you, God of angels and powers and every created thing, and of the whole race of the righteous who live in your presence. I bless you because you have counted me worthy of this day and hour, to take a place among the number of the martyrs in the cup of your Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, in the incorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. May I be received among them in your presence today as a rich and acceptable sacrifice, just as you previously prepared and now have fulfilled, oh undeceiving and true God. I praise you for this and for everything. I bless you, I glorify you, through the eternal and heavenly high priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom to you with him and the Holy Spirit be glory both now and in the ages to come. Amen.“


People who belong to God will endure to the end:

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."


🕊

If "endure to the end" means only those making it throug the gt belong to God, then all the believers that are now dead and in heaven do not really belong to God since they never went through the gt.
The postrib talking points are poorly thought out.

Besides the bible says no believer makes it through the gt.
The bible is 100% pretrib rapture.
Postrib is easily debunked.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Remember that our salvation is patterned after a Hebrew wedding. They have the betrothal and the price is paid, then the groom leaves to His Fathers house...to prepare a place for her. His return is at no specific time and she must be ready. When He arrives He takes her (raptures her) and takes her home (Isaiah 26:19-21) where the wedding ceremony is help and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb! That's not on earth.

You need to address those scriptures that I posted. In the other threads, no one ever addresses these scriptures! So if you want to do this then let's do it and I am asking to start with those scriptures, look them all up and read them....and respond to them. Prove me wrong. I'm ready friend!

No one needs to address your verses because Jesus plainly said

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."

Your verses are just smoke and mirrors that only confuse people who God hasn't sent to His Son, Lord Jesus.


🕊

 

[Psalm1]

If you insist to disregard Rev. 20, alright, take the Lord's own prophecy. You tell me what "the hour is coming" is referring to, if not his second coming.

The sequence of events is clear - removal of the Restrainer; revealing of the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:7-8); 3.5 year great tribulation; second coming (Matt. 24:29); FIRST resurrection; rapture, as gathering; judgement,

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice; and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me." (Jn. 5:24-30)

"All in the graves"
The general resurrection AFTER THE MIL.

1 THES 4
"Only the dead in Christ resurrected"

Stop the torturing of the bible please.

 

[Psalm1]

No one needs to address your verses because Jesus plainly said

John 6:39, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."

Your verses are just smoke and mirrors that only confuse people who God hasn't sent to His Son, Lord Jesus.


🕊

The general resurrection is after the mil.

Your verses from jn 6 do not support either side of the debate.

You are not aware of the general resurrection AFTER THE MIL?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

"All in the graves"
The general resurrection AFTER THE MIL.

1 THES 4
"Only the dead in Christ resurrected"

Stop the torturing of the bible please.

That is just deflection.

All God’s people need to know is:

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."


God is helping them build up their faith in Him to endure like Polycarp right now as we speak!


🕊

 

[Psalm1]

No one needs to address your verses because Jesus plainly said

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."

Your verses are just smoke and mirrors that only confuse people who God hasn't sent to His Son, Lord Jesus.


🕊

Again the general resurrection is after the mil.

You are parroting postribber workbook baloney, thinking you erased 10 verses with one verse out of alignment.

Postrib doctrine can not process the bible.
You are torturing God's word to make it support your false doctrine.

 

[Edward429451]

Then you're in denial. I read NKJV, never NIV. Have a good day, god bless.

You do? Really?! That's cool.

My friend and Brother in Christ bought me a nice bible, he wanted me to have the same version he does so we could bible study over the phone when his wife wont let him out lol! Anyway, the bible was an NIV version and it's what I had now in addition my KJV ones. Then one soon a different Brother in Christ and work collegue came to visit and seen my new bible and sees that it's an NIV, he says oh wrong version it has so many missing verses!

Huh? I never heard of that, show me. So he did and we set around for about an hour and he would quote verses off the top of his head that was missing and I looked them up in my KJV bible and the verses were there, but they were not in the NIV. Learn something new every day!

So a few days later on a Christian board somewhere there was a thread on what Bible version is the best to use? And lot's of people were saying NIV, NIV!! So I chimed in and said, be careful it has many missing verses! (and it does!). So one of the top respected men oon the board replied to me, Hey Edward can you give me a few examples so I can see for myself?
Absolutely Brother, gimme a few.

So I had to call my friend at work to get the references again, but he gave them to me. Now I've been to enough forums to know, you better have your ducks in a row! So I looked all the references up in scripture to double check myself before posting and...that verse IS in there? Huh? Must'a gave me a wrong refrence. Try again, it's in the bible too WT is going on? They weren't there 2 days ago! So I looked up all of them in the bible and every single one was in scripture. I didn't want to bug my friend at work agagin so I googled it, missing verses from the NIV...and got about a Billion hits. A huge list of missing verses. I copied some down and looked them...sigh, now what? They are all in the Bible too! WHat's going on here? And I closed my NIV bible and pushed it most way across the table. This crap is giving me a headache...and my eyes fell onto the back part of my bible and in big gold letters it says, NKJV...

my eyes began to open but I still felt like a pinball machine on full TILT !
I called my 1st friend that gifted me the Bible, was this a NKJV, no silly it's an NIV, just like mine...

Only one answer then...I know it was NIV. Friend knew it was NIV. Called the 2nd friend again, Dave remember going thru my new NKJV bible for missing verses? No, it was you NIV Bible, Ed. Oh just checking.

What other answer makes sense? The Lord transformed my NIV Bible into a NKJV Bible! Suddenly it was in my hands again, I leafed thru it, my highlighted verses and underlines are still there! But it is a NKJV Bible now.

I said, thanks Lord, I trust that was for a good reason! So He never spoke to me about it but I took it as a hearty endorsement of NKJV Bibles by Jesus! What else can I do. NIV, now NKJV. Praise the Lord!