I know that in Bibles at 2 Peter 2:4 it says that these fallen angels were cast down to tartarus. But when Peter wrote that he didn't mean that these fallen angels were cast into the pagan mythological Tartarus(that is, an underground prison and place of darkness for the lesser gods). This Tartarus doesn't and hasn't ever really existed, just as those Greek gods, Zeus, Ares, Apollo, etc along with the Titans don't and have ever really existed. Peter was just saying that these fallen angels were abased by God from their heavenly place and privileges and were delivered over to a condition of deepest mental or spiritual darkness respecting God's purposes. This darkness also marks these fallen angels own eventuality, which from the scriptures show is everlasting destruction along with their ruler Satan. So these angels being thrown in Tartarus doesn't mean that these angels are in a actual real prison but instead denotes the lowest abasement for those rebellious or fallen angels.
As in the days of Noah... ALL flesh had CORRUPTED itself
- Thread starter PennEd
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I know that in Bibles at 2 Peter 2:4 it says that these fallen angels were cast down to tartarus. But when Peter wrote that he didn't mean that these fallen angels were cast into the pagan mythological Tartarus(that is, an underground prison and place of darkness for the lesser gods). This Tartarus doesn't and hasn't ever really existed, just as those Greek gods, Zeus, Ares, Apollo, etc along with the Titans don't and have ever really existed. Peter was just saying that these fallen angels were abased by God from their heavenly place and privileges and were delivered over to a condition of deepest mental or spiritual darkness respecting God's purposes. This darkness also marks these fallen angels own eventuality, which from the scriptures show is everlasting destruction along with their ruler Satan. So these angels being thrown in Tartarus doesn't mean that these angels are in a actual real prison but instead denotes the lowest abasement for those rebellious or fallen angels.
Perhaps you are stuck on the Greek mythological use of the word. Peter wasn't.
Jewish apocalyptic literature described Tártaros as the place where fallen angels were sent as the lowest, darkest, gloomiest hell, the deepest pit and the most terrible place of torture and suffering. This term came later to refer to the region of the lost dead. It is found only once in the NT in its verbal form in this verse.
Luke 8:31
31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.
abussos: boundless, bottomless
Original Word: ἄβυσσος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: abussos
Phonetic Spelling: (ab'-us-sos)
Definition: boundless, bottomless
Usage: the abyss, unfathomable depth, an especially Jewish conception, the home of the dead and of evil spirits.
I wonder if people have sensationalized something that is, already, inherently sensational. It is written that the dragon be taken hold of and bound a thousand years in and emerging and being destroyed from out of the abyss but in my view, this visual composition causes me to think that this is speaking toward the involvement of death and a resurrection only to be delivered to a second death.
I'm simply saying that Peter wasn't saying these falling angels were cast into some mythological Tartarus that the Greeks believed in. The word tartarus comes from Greek mythology which is about false religion, which means it's what Satan and his demons has influenced people to believe in. So Peter wasn't saying these fallen angels were cast in a real prison called tartarus. Tartarus has never ever actually existed and Peter wasn't saying that it did exist because he used the word tartarus.
They are in the deepest part of Hades or the abyss. Bound in chains, until The Day.
Jude 6
King James Version
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
This kind of darkness until judgement day.
Exodus 10
[21] And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
[22] And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
[23] They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.
Indeed, Peter using that precise term (by inspiration of the Holy Spirit) was entirely intentional. Declaring the using of it to be a mistake....is a mistake.
Jude 6 isn't saying that the angels were kept in a place of everlasting darkness. These fallen angels were judged by God for their rebellion to be in a condition of everlasting chains concerning mental and spiritual darkness, so these fallen angels will never again be able to materialize bodies that look human ever again and they will receive everlasting destruction by the lake of fire.
If you want to believe that Peter was saying that Tartarus is a real place where the fallen angels are kept, that's your choice. I know for a fact that Tartarus comes from Greek mythology, Tartarus has never ever truly existed, so Tartarus isn't a real place. So since Peter used the word tartarus he wasn't saying the place called tartarus truly existed. Peter used the word to describe a condition not a place. So these fallen angels have been judged by the True God to an abased condition of greatest deepest mental and spiritual darkness. These fallen angels have also been restrained by God to never be able to materialize fleshly bodies again as they did before.
Concatenate Mark 8:29 with Luke 8:31 and Isa 24:21-22.
A perfect flow and logical progression/termination. Which is sufficient to proclaim settled doctrine.
Fortunately offhanded ignorant opinions don't count.
In the scriptures at 2 Peter 2:4 the use of the verb tartaroo(to cast into Tartarus) doesn't mean that the fallen angels(angels that sinned) were cast into the pagan mythological place(underground prison) called Tartarus. The mythological Tartarus has never ever really existed. Instead by Peter using the word tartarus he was saying these fallen angels were abased by the True God from their heavenly place and privileges and were delivered over to a condition of deepest mental darkness respecting the True God's purposes. This darkness also teaches the final eventuality of these fallen angels which the scriptures show is everlasting destruction, along with their ruler Satan the Devil. So tartarus indicates the lowest condition of abasement for these fallen angels. These fallen angels are not in a place.
So - where exactly are they - [just] hanging around like normal, [just] doing the normal thing, yet [just] "underprivileged"...?
Even the most fictitious fiction must utilize references to real things. What you may not be realizing is that - the Greek mythology itself could have used the concepts of real things in manufacturing its own fictional equivalent. The fact of the mythological fiction alone does not prove automatically that no such thing exists. Only in the context of the mythological fiction does it with any certainty not exist.
It is perfectly plausible that Greek mythology used the concept of a real place known-and-understood as 'Tartarus' from within its fictional framework.
Peter was not writing fiction. By inspiration of the Holy Ghost, he wrote "what is" - and, I really doubt that he made a reference to a non-existent 'place' in saying that God put angels there. And, if God has even so much as isolated those angels in any way - then they are in fact in some kind of 'place'.
It is perfectly plausible that Greek mythology used the concept of a real place known-and-understood as 'Tartarus' from within its fictional framework.
Peter was not writing fiction. By inspiration of the Holy Ghost, he wrote "what is" - and, I really doubt that he made a reference to a non-existent 'place' in saying that God put angels there. And, if God has even so much as isolated those angels in any way - then they are in fact in some kind of 'place'.
I'm simply telling you that Peter by using the word tartarus wasn't talking about a place. I'm saying that Peter wasn't saying these fallen angels were in a real place that was a real prison that was called tartarus, because tartarus is from Greek mythology, so for someone to teach that the tartarus Peter is writing about at 2 Peter 2:4 is a place, they are teaching that this mythological tartarus is a real place. A person can't believe and teach that tartarus was and is a real place simply because Peter used the word tartarus. Peter by using the word tartarus was simply writing about the condition of these fallen angels because of the True God's judgement.
It is not about the word Peter used - it is about the fact that Peter would not have said anything that was not true. Even if Peter's use of 'tartarus' was referring to some other-dimension 'place' where God put the angels - it is still a 'place'.
If you want to promote this idea as truth - you are going to have to illustrate very specifically how-and-why the use of that word in the 'grammar of the language' of the Bible refers to a 'condition' and not a 'place'.
The scriptures show that Satan the devil was able to be in heaven after what happen when these fallen angels became fallen angels. (Job 1:6; Job 2:1) So it seems reasonable that for a time, Satan and his demons were in heaven until what Revelation 12:7-9 says. These fallen angels are Satan's demons and the scripture at Revelation 12:7-9 says that Satan and his demons were thrown down to the earth. So these angels can't be in some literal place that's a prison.
I do not believe that 'angels' and 'demons' are the same thing.
Where in scripture does it say anything about demons being in heaven?
Revelation 12:7-9 does not say (indicate) 'Satan and his demons' - it says (indicates) 'Satan and his angels'.
BTW - Revelation 12:7-9 is not talking about the same angels as 2 Peter 2:4.
First of all let's get something straight, Peter wasn't referring to some other dimension place where the True God put these fallen angels. This other dimension place never ever really existed. It's lies. God doesn't refer to lies as though they are true.
I'm going by the fact that any false religion that teaches people false gods such as Zeus, Ares, and Apollo really existed and teach that tartarus was a real place that really existed, are teaching lies. It's also a scriptural fact that when you're talking about any false religion or false god all false gods and all false religion is about Satan and his demons. Satan and his demons are the ones who deceived people to believe these false gods are real. Satan and his demons teach lies, not truth. It's a scriptural fact that you don't take what belongs to Satan such as the lies he and his demons teach and unite them with God's word as though Satan and his demons have something in common with God's truth. You don't take tartarus as being a real literal place that really existed. If you do you have deceived yourself that Satan and his demons teach truth. Peter wasn't teaching that tartarus really existed, Peter didn't believe tartarus was a real place. So he was teaching that these fallen angels were in a condition not in a place.
Any angels that are on Satan's side are his demons. Revelation 12:7-9 says that Satan and his angels fought against the archangel Michael and his angels. So yes because these angels were on Satan's side and fought with Satan against the archangel Michael and his angels, then these angels that were on Satan side were demons.
Really? And who made you the authority on what Peter was teaching or not teaching? And the words are actually from the Holy Spirit who gave Peter his epistles by divine inspiration. So wake up and face reality (2 Peter 2:4).
There is no difference between the Critical and the Received Texts.
CRITICAL TEXT
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο, ἀλλὰ σειροῖς / σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τηρουμένους,
RECEIVED TEXT
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τετηρημένους·
So what is ταρταρώσας (Tartarosas)? "having cast [them] down to Tartarus" (translated as "hell" in the KJB):
King James Bible
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;
The lexicons incorrectly identify "Tartarus" as "Gehenna" (the Lake of Fire). But Tartarus is similar to Hades, except that it is a special prison for the angels which sinned before the Flood. Jude also refers to this: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. They will eventually be cast into Gehenna (the Lake of Fire).