Assumptions Assumptions

[Inquisitor]

Wow...you read that all wrong. My point was that people who have new hearts and spirits have different and holy desires and do not operate in the flesh. And those indwelt by the Spirit are under conviction when they sin. They aren't trying to sin. The opposite is true. And perseverance of the saints isn't accomplished by the individual, but by the Lord. That's why preservation is the better term.

So how could the Christian churches in Sardis and Laodicea reach that point, where they are blotted out from the book
of life? If what you are saying is correct, Cameron.

Revelation 3:4-5
But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk
with Me in white. Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life,
but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.

Only a few people in Sardis had not spoiled their garments as for the rest of the church in Sardis?

There may be a difference between "overcoming" and "not trying to sin".

We overcome because the Lord overcame but we also overcome by walking in the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-14
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to
the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led
by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

What sayeth ye to Romans 8:12-14?

 

[Chester]

So, seems to me, here there is really alot of generalising and assumptions about what other christians believe and do.

Speaking of us who adhere to OSAS, we encounter some who say we promote sinning/a license to sin, yet I haven't seen any on this forum who do promote sinning.

I think everyone gets guilty of it to try and make a point, but there are so many variations within denominations and non denominations that you would be confounded by assuming what they believe.

Everyone has a pet peeve Guess it's best to go from personal convinction than start with generalising and assumptions.

OK, I might be able to agree with you on your point here. I do not believe in OSAS. I think I can agree that to assume that someone who believes in OSAS promotes sinning is usually a fallacy.

Let's turn it around now. People who believe in OSAS often assume and generalize that anyone who does not believe in OSAS believes that salvation is by works (or at best by some sort of combination of faith and works). I think this is a fallacy and a false assumption.

I wonder, Wattie, if you agree that this is a fallacy?

 

[wattie]

OK, I might be able to agree with you on your point here. I do not believe in OSAS. I think I can agree that to assume that someone who believes in OSAS promotes sinning is usually a fallacy.

Let's turn it around now. People who believe in OSAS often assume and generalize that anyone who does not believe in OSAS believes that salvation is by works (or at best by some sort of combination of faith and works). I think this is a fallacy and a false assumption.

I wonder, Wattie, if you agree that this is a fallacy?

Well, if I could lose my salvation I would have to maintain it by good works.

 

[Cameron143]

So how could the Christian churches in Sardis and Laodicea reach that point, where they are blotted out from the book
of life? If what you are saying is correct, Cameron.

Revelation 3:4-5
But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk
with Me in white. Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life,
but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.

Only a few people in Sardis had not spoiled their garments as for the rest of the church in Sardis?

There may be a difference between "overcoming" and "not trying to sin".

We overcome because the Lord overcame but we also overcome by walking in the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-14
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to
the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are led
by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

What sayeth ye to Romans 8:12-14?

Not everyone who attach themselves to Christ and the church are saved. It was true in Jesus' time...John 2:24-25, and it is true today...just look at churches today.

If you look back to my original comments, my point was simply that Calvinists do not believe their preservation in Christ not secured by themselves, but by Christ. My subsequent point was that no genuine Christian...someone given a new heart and spirit, and indwelt by the Spirit...practices sin because their desires have been changed. They have become new creations. They are fundamentally different than what they once were.

I didn't realize this was controversial. Perhaps I relayed this poorly.

 

[Cameron143]

OK, I might be able to agree with you on your point here. I do not believe in OSAS. I think I can agree that to assume that someone who believes in OSAS promotes sinning is usually a fallacy.

Let's turn it around now. People who believe in OSAS often assume and generalize that anyone who does not believe in OSAS believes that salvation is by works (or at best by some sort of combination of faith and works). I think this is a fallacy and a false assumption.

I wonder, Wattie, if you agree that this is a fallacy?

Do you understand why someone makes the claim?