Assurance of Salvation

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mailmandan said:
They are synonymous.
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Well I am just going to say this I think 1 Cor 3:12-15 helps with this parable.

12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

So a person can be saved and have nothing to show for it.

In my view, (the non-Lordship Salvation view) I distinguish between justification and whether a person lives a life that pleases or disappoints God.

A person either exercises faith or they do not.

When they do, God makes the determination that they are believers/in Him, and the parable states they believed, they reached that end point.
 
HeIsHere said:
See, I do not read the belief itself was insufficient for the gift of salvation.

They believed.
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I know you don't. Are you reading from it or into it?

I'm watching you and @mailmandan - 2 faith-alone advocates - discuss different concepts of it.

Since you're both on the thread, let me ask you (both) what you see in John8:31-59? Make sure you pay close attention to John8:31 as you begin and note the verb is perfect tense meaning they had believed at some point in the past and believed at the time He spoke to them here at v.31.
 
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. Again, there is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
 
studier said:
I know you don't. Are you reading from it or into it?

I'm watching you and @mailmandan - 2 faith-alone advocates - discuss different concepts of it.

Since you're both on the thread, let me ask you (both) what you see in John8:31-59? Make sure you pay close attention to John8:31 as you begin and note the verb is perfect tense meaning they had believed at some point in the past and believed at the time He spoke to them here at v.31.
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This is good.

Let me read in full context.
 
studier said:
There is indeed a flow to all of this. This is how I see it in 1John3:1-4: God’s love calls us His children and reveals a future of extraordinary transformation. Everyone who has this hope - this revealed future in Christ - purifies himself from sin and lawlessness. This purification is part of our ongoing faith-pistis: relational allegiance that obeys, endures, loves and imitates Him.
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I view the hope as the faith in Christ's purity to be affective in our purification. And so, it is because of that, we can 'see ourselves as pure' in fact and that causes the burden of 'being pure' indeed easy and light.
 
MsMediator said:
I have noticed, among self-acknowleged Christians, some Christians take the "Woohoo, I'm saved!" outlook, whereas other Christians still have a sincere fear of going to hell. The first group seems to be more carefree and without fear, whereas the second group still a bit unsure and cannot answer with 100 percent certainty if they are saved. The second group tends to be more fearful that Jesus will say that they did not do enough. Who is right? Or is the answer somewhere in between? Please support with Scripture. Which group are you in? I tend to be in the first group, but I can also see the second group's view.
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The answer is in between: There are good reasons to be confident of salvation, but we walk by faith, not sight (2Cor. 5:7),
so certainty will have to await being resurrected to heaven (Rom. 8:24-25).
 
Mem said:
I view the hope as the faith in Christ's purity to be affective in our purification. And so, it is because of that, we can 'see ourselves as pure' in fact and that causes the burden of 'being pure' indeed easy and light.
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Being conformed to His likeness is surely a part of it. I see it as coming full circle to the image of God and note phrases like the command to be imitators of God as beloved children Eph5:1 and back to where this brief discussion began as you note: "just as He is pure". I also am fascinated by the mysterious: NKJ 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." There's a part of this where our actual realization about ourselves can only take place when we actually see Him as He is. Our future hope is astounding and well worth the present purification efforts, to say the least.
 
studier said:
Being conformed to His likeness is surely a part of it. I see it as coming full circle to the image of God and note phrases like the command to be imitators of God as beloved children Eph5:1 and back to where this brief discussion began as you note: "just as He is pure". I also am fascinated by the mysterious: NKJ 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." There's a part of this where our actual realization about ourselves can only take place when we actually see Him as He is. Our future hope is astounding and well worth the present purification efforts, to say the least.
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In light of this, the number of people that claim to 'see' Him, as He Is, so clearly, does astonish me. I mean, not even the disciples saw Him so 'clearly,' as the phrase, 'scripture is clear' is so often asserted.
 
PaulThomson said:
I am being saved as long as I am loving my Christian siblings. If I stop loving my siblings, I need to remember the gracious love of God for me expressed in the cross, and recommit to responding to that undeserved love by sharing that gracious love with undeserving others.

If I die walking in love, I can be assured I will be raised at the last day to inherit the kingdom of God on earth in the millennium. I am not supposed to have assurance of salvation when I am living mercilessly and unlovingly towards others.
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Precious friend, depending on us and our works is Insufficient For Assurance, Because Of:

Depending On God's Purpose Of The ALL-Sufficient Work Of The Cross... ​
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Past Justification?:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Present Sanctification?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How about Future Glorification?:

Please prayerfully / Carefully review: Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation.
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God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
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God's Eternal Life Assurance
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God's Eternal Life Insurance

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, and In His Precious Word Of Truth!:

Amen.
 
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GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend, depending on us and our works is Insufficient For Assurance, Because Of:

Depending On God's Purpose Of The ALL-Sufficient Work Of The Cross... ​
+
Past Justification?:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

Present Sanctification?

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How about Future Glorification?:

Please prayerfully / Carefully review: Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation.
+
God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified
In Christ, and In His Precious Word Of Truth!:

Amen.
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The sign that God gives us to assure us is love for the brethren. Affirmation of an intellectual formula is nat the sign Gad gives to assure us that we are being saved from separating ourselves from God and others. One can have any number of bullet point beliefs and yet remain at war with others. One can have many incorrect bullet point beliefs and at least grasp how much God lives us all and choose toenter into that love God has for myself and others.

BTW, surely your listing three stages of salvation, past, present and future, is a de facto admission that salvation is not a one time done deal.
 
PaulThomson said:
surely your listing three stages of salvation, past, present and future, is a de facto admission that salvation is not a one time done deal.
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Precious friend, Very Correct! And, I apologize for giving an Incorrect 'link':

Three Tenses Of God's Salvation!

The Past Tense "Justification" For An Eternal Relationship With God Is "A ONE-Time Done Deal!!"

The others are now and later...

Amen.
 
GWH said:
Well, ideally per the NT faith is the exercise of MFW to repent of atheism and accept Jesus as God's Messiah and Lord.
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Re: "faith" - You say 'NT faith is" - do you see this as a biblical definition of pistis - in the way the NT writers use the word?

I ask because phrases like “exercise of free will” and “accept Jesus” sound more like theological summaries than lexical or textual definitions. How do you see your wording reflected in the actual NT use and meaning of pistis or pisteuō?

Re: "Messiah and Lord" - what do these two words mean?
 
studier said:
What is 100% trust/belief with the heart?
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Precious friend, thanks for the humble question = best analogy I've ever heard:

One is standing in the airport, looking at the plane, and intellectually believes: "yes, the
plane will 'get me to my destination'". How does one "get to the destination"? :

He actually "gets on board the plane" and "trusts [ in his heart 100% ] his life" into the
"hands of the pilot" to get him to his destination, correct?

Same with Christ, 100% faith/trust/belief "with all of our heart", for God's Eternal
Salvation, Correct?

Amen.
 
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studier said:
Re: "faith" - You say 'NT faith is" - do you see this as a biblical definition of pistis - in the way the NT writers use the word?

I ask because phrases like “exercise of free will” and “accept Jesus” sound more like theological summaries than lexical or textual definitions. How do you see your wording reflected in the actual NT use and meaning of pistis or pisteuō?

Re: "Messiah and Lord" - what do these two words mean?
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I see Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6 as defining faith as accepting Jesus as Messiah and Lord.

I do not see the NT writers using the phrase "exercise of MFW", but the concept is implied in many places,
such as 1Tim. 2:3-4, John 3:16, Matt. 23:37, Heb. 11:6, etc., which I think could be called lexical/textual implications.
 
studier said:
What is 100% trust/belief with the heart?
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It means we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. It's one thing to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened" which is believing with our head, yet it's another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, which is believing with our heart. (Romans 1:16; 10:9,10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
 
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