Back up hold up let’s get back to Basics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Waden21
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

Waden21

Guest
If Yahweh is real and true and Yeshua is real and true when he stated
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
If you analyze a little further, he was talking to a group of people of his followers at a certain time. About a certain time period.
If Yeshua spoke parables so that his people would understand could this not also be a parable? If so, did his statement that he would be back before this generation passes also be correct.
Since his parables spoke to people in a group, but on a personal basis, could he not be speaking to you specifically in this verse?
Psalms chapter 2 verse four

To clarify, I am not saying I am right. I am a follower of Yeshua and I am just searching for the truth.
 
If Yahweh is real and true and Yeshua is real and true when he stated
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
If you analyze a little further, he was talking to a group of people of his followers at a certain time. About a certain time period.
If Yeshua spoke parables so that his people would understand could this not also be a parable? If so, did his statement that he would be back before this generation passes also be correct.
Since his parables spoke to people in a group, but on a personal basis, could he not be speaking to you specifically in this verse?
Psalms chapter 2 verse four

To clarify, I am not saying I am right. I am a follower of Yeshua and I am just searching for the truth.
Jesus spoke in parables so that He was difficult to understand, not so that His followers would understand. It's a subtle but critical distinction. He had to explain His parables to His followers in private because even they did not understand.

Base your argument on an incorrect "if" and your argument becomes baseless. ;)

Jesus did not always speak in plain, clear language; mostly He did not. However, His words are sufficiently clear to those who know the OT, the context, and His character, and don't approach the text with their minds already made up.
 
Jesus spoke in parables so that He was difficult to understand, not so that His followers would understand. It's a subtle but critical distinction. He had to explain His parables to His followers in private because even they did not understand.

Base your argument on an incorrect "if" and your argument becomes baseless. ;)

Jesus did not always speak in plain, clear language; mostly He did not. However, His words are sufficiently clear to those who know the OT, the context, and His character, and don't approach the text with their minds already made up.
He only explained this to the disciples
 
Jesus spoke in parables so that He was difficult to understand, not so that His followers would understand. It's a subtle but critical distinction. He had to explain His parables to His followers in private because even they did not understand.

Base your argument on an incorrect "if" and your argument becomes baseless. ;)

Jesus did not always speak in plain, clear language; mostly He did not. However, His words are sufficiently clear to those who know the OT, the context, and His character, and don't approach the text with their minds already made up.
  • Proverbs 25:2: "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings."
  • Jeremiah 29:13: "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
  • Matthew 7:7: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
 
Like Pilate said, "What is truth?"
My point is we as believers believe one word and not the next.
In my personal research by believing and searching I find the path that make both words understandable
 
Jesus spoke in parables so that He was difficult to understand, not so that His followers would understand. It's a subtle but critical distinction. He had to explain His parables to His followers in private because even they did not understand.

Base your argument on an incorrect "if" and your argument becomes baseless. ;)

Jesus did not always speak in plain, clear language; mostly He did not. However, His words are sufficiently clear to those who know the OT, the context, and His character, and don't approach the text with their minds already made up.

Scripture is God's inkblot, and the parables sift souls
into various groups, such as tulipists and mfwers.
(1Tim. 2:3-4, 2Thes. 2:10)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Waden21
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

This is the only thing Jesus mentioned that applied back in the first century.

The overthrow of Jerusalem and the Hebrews scattered which their house would be desolate until the time God restored the kingdom to them.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Then the rest of it is in the future around this time.

So Jesus was directing this towards the Jewish people, saints in the future.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel did not understand what was told him for he had a limited view of the world.

He was told to go his way for he could not understand it for the book is sealed until the time of the end and then they would understand it.

For many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which then the saints can see, hear, and know what is going on in the world.

And how it is possible for them to come together for they can communicate with each other, and can travel to each other which they will establish a system on a world wide level that is against God's operation for the world.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

The saints could not know of these things that happen on different places on earth in the first century unless there is technology.

Which they would be in the same situation as Daniel having a limited view of the world.

This can only happen in the future that they would know.

Which we know of WW1, WW2, with footage, and the clashes today between the nations.

And we know of earthquakes, pestilences, and famines that are happening around the world.

They would not know that in the first century.

Basically all they would know is when they went outside and looked around.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

How could the saints be hated of all nations in the first century when Christianity would not even spread that far back then with the majority of the world not knowing about it.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

How can the love of many wax cold at a time when they were not in contact with many people to make that judgement as an overall attitude.

And iniquity was not as bad back then.

Proverbs 12:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

The last generation before Jesus comes back which the children will not obey parents.

And believe they are pure but not washed from their filthiness.

And highly selfish, and highly arrogant, gong against each other aggressively.

And heaping money to themselves which they will not care about the poor and needy.

Which money will be flowing like a raging river and they can reach out to more people to make money gobbling up money that is not available to the poor and needy.

In America we see this on a nation wide level greediness, selfishness, arrogance, love of money neglecting the poor, basically caring about self, loving sins, and children not obeying parents.

Causing Americans not to care about each other as much, and not love each other as much which at the last days they will be without natural affection.

Which the husbands and wives, men and women, parents and children, and society in general fight and do not get along.

With America having more divisions, and fighting on the internet belittling people, exalting themselves, than any other nation on earth.

And the behavior of other nations although America beats them in general.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

How can the Gospel be preached in to all the world as a witness to all nations back in the first century.

Which how can the end come in the first century when the end will come when Jesus delivers the kingdom up which the resurrection has not happened yet but in the future.
 
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

This is the only thing Jesus mentioned that applied back in the first century.

The overthrow of Jerusalem and the Hebrews scattered which their house would be desolate until the time God restored the kingdom to them.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Then the rest of it is in the future around this time.

So Jesus was directing this towards the Jewish people, saints in the future.
You have divided the text into first-century application and later application with nothing more substantial than your own words to justify the distinction... in other words, "because I said so".

Try thinking through your rationale thoroughly before responding.

Start with the ancient Jewish conception of "the end of the world" rather than the modern Western conception.
 
You have divided the text into first-century application and later application with nothing more substantial than your own words to justify the distinction... in other words, "because I said so".

Try thinking through your rationale thoroughly before responding.

Start with the ancient Jewish conception of "the end of the world" rather than the modern Western conception.
I posted scripture
 
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

This is the only thing Jesus mentioned that applied back in the first century.

The overthrow of Jerusalem and the Hebrews scattered which their house would be desolate until the time God restored the kingdom to them.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Then the rest of it is in the future around this time.

So Jesus was directing this towards the Jewish people, saints in the future.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel did not understand what was told him for he had a limited view of the world.

He was told to go his way for he could not understand it for the book is sealed until the time of the end and then they would understand it.

For many shall run to and fro, advanced travel, and knowledge shall be increased, advanced technology, which then the saints can see, hear, and know what is going on in the world.

And how it is possible for them to come together for they can communicate with each other, and can travel to each other which they will establish a system on a world wide level that is against God's operation for the world.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

The saints could not know of these things that happen on different places on earth in the first century unless there is technology.

Which they would be in the same situation as Daniel having a limited view of the world.

This can only happen in the future that they would know.

Which we know of WW1, WW2, with footage, and the clashes today between the nations.

And we know of earthquakes, pestilences, and famines that are happening around the world.

They would not know that in the first century.

Basically all they would know is when they went outside and looked around.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

How could the saints be hated of all nations in the first century when Christianity would not even spread that far back then with the majority of the world not knowing about it.

Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

How can the love of many wax cold at a time when they were not in contact with many people to make that judgement as an overall attitude.

And iniquity was not as bad back then.

Proverbs 12:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

The last generation before Jesus comes back which the children will not obey parents.

And believe they are pure but not washed from their filthiness.

And highly selfish, and highly arrogant, gong against each other aggressively.

And heaping money to themselves which they will not care about the poor and needy.

Which money will be flowing like a raging river and they can reach out to more people to make money gobbling up money that is not available to the poor and needy.

In America we see this on a nation wide level greediness, selfishness, arrogance, love of money neglecting the poor, basically caring about self, loving sins, and children not obeying parents.

Causing Americans not to care about each other as much, and not love each other as much which at the last days they will be without natural affection.

Which the husbands and wives, men and women, parents and children, and society in general fight and do not get along.

With America having more divisions, and fighting on the internet belittling people, exalting themselves, than any other nation on earth.

And the behavior of other nations although America beats them in general.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

How can the Gospel be preached in to all the world as a witness to all nations back in the first century.

Which how can the end come in the first century when the end will come when Jesus delivers the kingdom up which the resurrection has not happened yet but in the future.
I am with you.
However all of those things have happened in loops throughout time.
The ability’s change but the actual action does not.
Can you tell me what your view is on
Matthew 24:34, where Jesus states, "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." This statement is also recorded in parallel passages in Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.
 
Most of the teachings of Jesus are very clear, simple, and understandable.

1. Do not worry about anything.
Matthew 6:25-34

2. Be kind, not vindictive, to your enemies.
Matthew 5:43-45

3. Do unto others what you would want them to do unto you.
Matt 7:12

4. Love God more than anything else.
Matthew 22:37-38

5. Love your neighbor.
Mark 12:31

6. Forgive those who wrong you.
Matt 6:14-15

7. Do not let your wealth distract you from preparing yourself for heaven.
Mark 10:25

8. Leaders must be servants.
Mark 9:35

9. Peacemakers are blessed.
Matthew 5:9

10. Let your light shine before others.
Matthew 5:16
 
Most of the teachings of Jesus are very clear, simple, and understandable.

1. Do not worry about anything.
Matthew 6:25-34

2. Be kind, not vindictive, to your enemies.
Matthew 5:43-45

3. Do unto others what you would want them to do unto you.
Matt 7:12

4. Love God more than anything else.
Matthew 22:37-38

5. Love your neighbor.
Mark 12:31

6. Forgive those who wrong you.
Matt 6:14-15

7. Do not let your wealth distract you from preparing yourself for heaven.
Mark 10:25

8. Leaders must be servants.
Mark 9:35

9. Peacemakers are blessed.
Matthew 5:9

10. Let your light shine before others.
Matthew 5:16

Amen, but for many Scripture seems to be an inkblot/parable by which they sift themselves into various camps of confusion.
 
Amen, but for many Scripture seems to be an inkblot/parable by which they sift themselves into various camps of confusion.
To be
Most of the teachings of Jesus are very clear, simple, and understandable.

1. Do not worry about anything.
Matthew 6:25-34

2. Be kind, not vindictive, to your enemies.
Matthew 5:43-45

3. Do unto others what you would want them to do unto you.
Matt 7:12

4. Love God more than anything else.
Matthew 22:37-38

5. Love your neighbor.
Mark 12:31

6. Forgive those who wrong you.
Matt 6:14-15

7. Do not let your wealth distract you from preparing yourself for heaven.
Mark 10:25

8. Leaders must be servants.
Mark 9:35

9. Peacemakers are blessed.
Matthew 5:9

10. Let your light shine before others.
Matthew 5:
 
Can you tell me what your view is on
Matthew 24:34, where Jesus states, "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." This statement is also recorded in parallel passages in Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.

The Aramaic word that is used in the Aramaic Bible for generation is sharbatha.

Sharbatha (also spelled sharbta or sharbtha, ܫربܬܐ) literally means a race, tribe, family, nation — and on rare occasions, it can be used for generation.

In other words, the most common usage of the Aramaic word sharbatha is a race of people, which is the least common usage for the Greek word.

If we plug in the Aramaic rendering, we find that Jesus taught that this particular race of people, the Jews, would not pass away, cease to exist, or be exterminated before His return.

For over two thousand years, people have tried to commit genocide against the Jewish people, and had Hitler won WW2, he might have succeeded.

Yet, the promise of Jesus stood firm that this Jewish race that gave birth to Him would not pass away until His return. All the attempts at genocide for over two thousand years have not been successful, and will continue to fail.
 
The Aramaic word that is used in the Aramaic Bible for generation is sharbatha.

Sharbatha (also spelled sharbta or sharbtha, ܫربܬܐ) literally means a race, tribe, family, nation — and on rare occasions, it can be used for generation.

In other words, the most common usage of the Aramaic word sharbatha is a race of people, which is the least common usage for the Greek word.

If we plug in the Aramaic rendering, we find that Jesus taught that this particular race of people, the Jews, would not pass away, cease to exist, or be exterminated before His return.

For over two thousand years, people have tried to commit genocide against the Jewish people, and had Hitler won WW2, he might have succeeded.

Yet, the promise of Jesus stood firm that this Jewish race that gave birth to Him would not pass away until His return. All the attempts at genocide for over two thousand years have not been successful, and will continue to fail.

I did not know that, but it makes sense.
I will add that insight to the TOJ thread.
Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anchorite