Basic facts on faith.

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Condemnation always follows unforgiveness.
Yes, prior to condemnation you should hear the complaint and deal with it. We should operate on the principle "innocent until proven guilty".

Accusing me of "manufacturing lies" is a condemnation. I am not condemning Bible_Locket, I am asking for relevant details about his accusation so that I can respond to it. You have made 28,000 posts, if someone accused you of manufacturing lies you would want to know what post are you referring to and what do you think is the "manufactured lie" in that post that you were guilty of. I have made over 50,000 posts.

If instead you say "I forgive you" that is the height of arrogance. You haven't even looked to see if you made a mistake, if your post is being misconstrued, or if something you said is harming others. I have been called out before and had to clarify what I said, or correct it. Often this happens when you are in a back and forth with someone else and then someone just reads one post without reading the full conversation.
 
It didn't happen on my thread, why did you choose my thread to blow up.

I was called 50 different things yesterday alone, get over it. It's called forgiveness.
You have made less than 1500 posts, I have made more than 50,000. I am familiar with insults and people throwing shade. 95% of the time I ignore it because it doesn't rise to the level of an offense described in Matthew 18.

This is because if you look at Matthew 18 once you start that process you have to take it to completion. Either the event is reconciled or the person is excommunicated. I look at something and say is this that big a deal. 95% of the time the answer is no. However, if a person can slander others without being accountable, that is something that needs to be dealt with.
 
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All offense is ultimately against God. We are sometimes called to suffer it on His behalf.
It is stunning to me how many Christians ignore Matthew 18

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Bible_Locket thinks that "I manufacture lies". He should have come to me privately and expressed this concern and we could have dealt with it according to Matthew 18.

But he didn't.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Then he should have reported the offending post to the moderators and they should have come to me if they agreed with him to confirm his concern. On the other hand they might have rebuked Bible_Locket because there was no "manufactured lie". Many "Christians" claim they are "forgiving" someone when in reality they know that they can't find two or three witnesses that will agree with them. Regardless, Bible_Locket did not do this either, even though the moderators make it extremely easy to report a post.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This is what Bible_Locket has done. He skipped step 1 and 2 and has jumped to publicly declaring that "ZNP manufactures lies". At this point it is not possible to deal with this quietly in a DM, it is already public.

The idea that someone should simply "forgive" those who publicly accuse them of "manufacturing lies" is absurd. If someone says that about anyone I want to know what their response is to the claim, I don't want to hear them say "I forgive them", that tells me they are afraid to deal with it and that in turn indicates to me they know that if this is dealt with they will be exposed further.
 
It is stunning to me how many Christians ignore Matthew 18

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Bible_Locket thinks that "I manufacture lies". He should have come to me privately and expressed this concern and we could have dealt with it according to Matthew 18.

But he didn't.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Then he should have reported the offending post to the moderators and they should have come to me if they agreed with him to confirm his concern. On the other hand they might have rebuked Bible_Locket because there was no "manufactured lie". Many "Christians" claim they are "forgiving" someone when in reality they know that they can't find two or three witnesses that will agree with them. Regardless, Bible_Locket did not do this either, even though the moderators make it extremely easy to report a post.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This is what Bible_Locket has done. He skipped step 1 and 2 and has jumped to publicly declaring that "ZNP manufactures lies". At this point it is not possible to deal with this quietly in a DM, it is already public.

The idea that someone should simply "forgive" those who publicly accuse them of "manufacturing lies" is absurd. If someone says that about anyone I want to know what their response is to the claim, I don't want to hear them say "I forgive them", that tells me they are afraid to deal with it and that in turn indicates to me they know that if this is dealt with they will be exposed further.


You do tend to post conspiratorial stuff that NEVER comes true through. Like posting that King Charles is the antichrist (lol!).

I think that you don't like it that @Bible_Locket exposed you. So please don't get mad at her.

You need to ask yourself why you have that tendency to post false conspiratorial stuff and ask God to help you overcome that.


🕊️
 
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All offense is ultimately against God. We are sometimes called to suffer it on His behalf.

Hey Cameron, im going to ask you a question, then im just going to i ignore it.

Over the last 30 years, I've noticed these supposed members with 20, 30, thousand posts. They never take a stand, only keep the convo going.iv always considered those to be AI gathering info.

Now we're seeing AI like znp, thats function seems to be to disrupt. 50 thousand posts , come on, thats not humanly possible.

So , I know my understanding on faith steps on some toes, but whoever runs this site has always allowed me to speak my mind with solid facts to back it up. And I'm very thankful for that.

But here I am, on a Sunday, the head personal probably talking a day off and an AI gets let loose on my thread. I've learned if I report it, they don't only freeze the one being reported on, but the one doing the reporting. Result, dead thread.

We've been okay even though you don't agree on all i post. You have an opinion on it?
 
The application of faith , a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, is the only tender that will spend in heaven.
 
It is stunning to me how many Christians ignore Matthew 18

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Bible_Locket thinks that "I manufacture lies". He should have come to me privately and expressed this concern and we could have dealt with it according to Matthew 18.

But he didn't.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Then he should have reported the offending post to the moderators and they should have come to me if they agreed with him to confirm his concern. On the other hand they might have rebuked Bible_Locket because there was no "manufactured lie". Many "Christians" claim they are "forgiving" someone when in reality they know that they can't find two or three witnesses that will agree with them. Regardless, Bible_Locket did not do this either, even though the moderators make it extremely easy to report a post.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This is what Bible_Locket has done. He skipped step 1 and 2 and has jumped to publicly declaring that "ZNP manufactures lies". At this point it is not possible to deal with this quietly in a DM, it is already public.

The idea that someone should simply "forgive" those who publicly accuse them of "manufacturing lies" is absurd. If someone says that about anyone I want to know what their response is to the claim, I don't want to hear them say "I forgive them", that tells me they are afraid to deal with it and that in turn indicates to me they know that if this is dealt with they will be exposed further.
First, this isn't the church. No one is under the authority of another here. Second, you think the lesson here is for another. You are simply reaping what you have sown. Rather than be humbled and instructed by the experience, you choose to make a federal offense of it all. What could have redounded to the glory of God has become a defense of your honor.
 
First, this isn't the church. No one is under the authority of another here. Second, you think the lesson here is for another. You are simply reaping what you have sown. Rather than be humbled and instructed by the experience, you choose to make a federal offense of it all. What could have redounded to the glory of God has become a defense of your honor.

I got your answer with your first sentence, thanks.
 
Hey Cameron, im going to ask you a question, then im just going to i ignore it.

Over the last 30 years, I've noticed these supposed members with 20, 30, thousand posts. They never take a stand, only keep the convo going.iv always considered those to be AI gathering info.

Now we're seeing AI like znp, thats function seems to be to disrupt. 50 thousand posts , come on, thats not humanly possible.

So , I know my understanding on faith steps on some toes, but whoever runs this site has always allowed me to speak my mind with solid facts to back it up. And I'm very thankful for that.

But here I am, on a Sunday, the head personal probably talking a day off and an AI gets let loose on my thread. I've learned if I report it, they don't only freeze the one being reported on, but the one doing the reporting. Result, dead thread.

We've been okay even though you don't agree on all i post. You have an opinion on it?
On a public forum one is inevitably going to run across what you have suggested. I learned a long time ago to engage to the point the return proves unprofitable, then politely remove myself from conversations.

I enjoy much of the material @ZNP presents. I have nothing against him personally or his choice of subject matter.

What I mostly observe as a problem here is the lack of love and the abundance of pride. When this gets reversed, this will be a tremendous site.
 
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You do tend to post conspiratorial stuff that NEVER comes true through. Like posting that King Charles is the antichrist (lol!).

I think that you don't like it that @Bible_Locket exposed you. So please don't get mad at her.

You need to ask yourself why you have that tendency to post false conspiratorial stuff and ask God to help you overcome that.


🕊️
Which is why I post everything in writing. I never posted that I think King Charles is the Antichrist, because I don't think that. What I did post is a link to an author who wrote The Antichrist and a Cup of Tea, and he thinks that. I think what he wrote is valuable because I think it explains a portion of the book of Revelation which is very difficult to understand. However, I have added the caveat that I don't agree with his conclusions even though I do agree that he has done valuable investigation.

Also, if Bible_Locket had exposed me she would have told me what the lie was and where I posted it. As it is she has not exposed anything. Nor am I "mad" at her. I am taking her accusation seriously and trying to find out what the offense is. Just like this post of yours distorting what someone else said as though I had said it.
 
"Christ is formed in our hearts by faith."

So it's important to know exactly what faith is and how it's applied to have Christ formed in our hearts.

There was some trouble translating faith, pistis, into the English language. And also the corresponding verb to pistis, pisteuo. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun faith like the Greek does. So to correctly translate the word pisteuo which describes how we are to apply faith, it takes some extra work.

The English language tends to limit faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, to confidence or trust. And it leaves the " will" , to another word which is obedience. The English language thus sets free faith from work. The Greek doesn't allow that. You don't have " pistis" , ( faith) until you added the " will" and hung the body in continuing action on what the mind believed and what the heart had confidence in. It's an expression of the whole man.
When we make an argument or an opinion based on the Greek Language, we should do some study before we offer our opinion. Notice I said "we" because I include myself in what I said.

The Greek word pistis comes from the root word "Pist" which has three distinct forms:
πίστιςfaith, trust, beliefnoun — the state or quality of trusting
πιστεύωto believe, to trustverb — the act of trusting or believing
πιστόςfaithful, trustworthyadjective — describes reliability or loyalty

As we can see above, the Greeks changed the spelling of the word to alert the reader if a noun, a verb or an Adjective was meant. Notice that the word can connote three distinct ideas, "faith, trust or belief" and the specific meaning depends on the context.

In an exegetical argument, Galatians 4:19 is not the right text to cite because Paul does not identify the means by which Christ is formed in believers; he simply states the goal. A better source is Ephesians 3:17, where Paul explicitly says that Christ dwells in our hearts “through faith.” Here faith (pistis) is not bare belief but the active, relational trust that receives Christ’s presence and yields to His transforming work. Paul consistently uses faith as the instrument by which divine life enters and reshapes the believer, so the formation of Christ within us is not a mystical process detached from human response but the direct result of trusting reliance on Him. Thus, the theological statement “Christ is formed in our hearts by faith” is best grounded in Ephesians 3:17, where Paul names the mechanism, rather than in Galatians 4:19, where he names only the outcome.

When Paul says that Christ dwells in our hearts “through faith,” he is not describing an invisible, mystical shaping process that happens apart from our minds, habits, or learning. In Paul’s thought, faith (pistis) is the ongoing act of trusting Christ enough to take His teaching seriously, internalize it, and conform our lives to it. As believers learn what Jesus taught, understand what it means, and yield their decisions to His pattern of life, Christ’s character becomes the governing reality inside them. In that sense, Christ is “formed” in the heart — not by vague spiritual impressions, but by the steady, relational obedience that reshapes how we think, choose, value, and walk. Paul’s language is metaphorical, but the process he describes is concrete: Christ is formed in us as we trust Him enough to live the way He lived and think the way He thought.

Hope this helps.
 
When we make an argument or an opinion based on the Greek Language, we should do some study before we offer our opinion. Notice I said "we" because I include myself in what I said.

The Greek word pistis comes from the root word "Pist" which has three distinct forms:
πίστιςfaith, trust, beliefnoun — the state or quality of trusting
πιστεύωto believe, to trustverb — the act of trusting or believing
πιστόςfaithful, trustworthyadjective — describes reliability or loyalty

As we can see above, the Greeks changed the spelling of the word to alert the reader if a noun, a verb or an Adjective was meant. Notice that the word can connote three distinct ideas, "faith, trust or belief" and the specific meaning depends on the context.

In an exegetical argument, Galatians 4:19 is not the right text to cite because Paul does not identify the means by which Christ is formed in believers; he simply states the goal. A better source is Ephesians 3:17, where Paul explicitly says that Christ dwells in our hearts “through faith.” Here faith (pistis) is not bare belief but the active, relational trust that receives Christ’s presence and yields to His transforming work. Paul consistently uses faith as the instrument by which divine life enters and reshapes the believer, so the formation of Christ within us is not a mystical process detached from human response but the direct result of trusting reliance on Him. Thus, the theological statement “Christ is formed in our hearts by faith” is best grounded in Ephesians 3:17, where Paul names the mechanism, rather than in Galatians 4:19, where he names only the outcome.

When Paul says that Christ dwells in our hearts “through faith,” he is not describing an invisible, mystical shaping process that happens apart from our minds, habits, or learning. In Paul’s thought, faith (pistis) is the ongoing act of trusting Christ enough to take His teaching seriously, internalize it, and conform our lives to it. As believers learn what Jesus taught, understand what it means, and yield their decisions to His pattern of life, Christ’s character becomes the governing reality inside them. In that sense, Christ is “formed” in the heart — not by vague spiritual impressions, but by the steady, relational obedience that reshapes how we think, choose, value, and walk. Paul’s language is metaphorical, but the process he describes is concrete: Christ is formed in us as we trust Him enough to live the way He lived and think the way He

Does 38 years studying pisteuo qualify?

I posted some facts in the op. Strongs and vines definitions. Do you agree with them?
 
The English language thus sets free faith from work. The Greek doesn't allow that. You don't have " pistis" , ( faith) until you added the " will"
There is a deeper issue here than Greek.

Here, our good Calvinist brother is equating the word "will" with "works."

He doesn't prove this connection; he merely injects it, presupposes it.
The Calvinist requires this presupposition, this definition, in order to maintain his position.
But that presupposition is not agreed upon by all, and the rest of us simply disagree and challenge it.
You don't get to just proclaim it, willy nilly, as a given.
: )

One of the fundamental issues between Calvinists and non-Calvinists, is that of equating "will" with "works".
I don't want to spend the rest of my life debating my good Calvinists brothers, endlessly, on the same narrow range of issues.
Although I DO disagree with them (on a few things) i do love them and respect them.
But here we are again.

The Will vs Works Issue:
The Calvinist views any assertion of the will, even if only an act of will in the mind or heart, to be a "work."
But this is not, to the best of my understanding, how the NT speaks of works.
I think this is a serious and fundamental issue, and one of the primary ones upon which we disagree.

Conclusion:
1.) The discussion of Greek in this post is irrelevant to the fundamental and underlying issue.
2.) The fundamental, underlying issue, isn't about whether or not a Greek word refers to "will"... it's about what the word "will" MEANS.
And if we define "will" as being a work, then we are, by necessity, also required to define the word "work" - then we're back to the same old argument about "works". What precisely is, and is not, a work?
3.) The fundamental, underlying issue, once again, always again, endlessly over and over, is HOW WE DEFINE "WORKS."


I know my Calvinists brothers will disagree on my position, but I don't think they'll disagree on my identification of this underlying issue.

God Bless, and have a wonderful Sunday.


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On a public forum one is inevitably going to run across what you have suggested. I learned a long time ago to engage to the point the return proves unprofitable, then politely remove myself from conversations.

I enjoy much of the material @ZNP presents. I have nothing against him personally or his choice of subject matter.

What I mostly observe as a problem here is the lack of love and the abundance of pride. When this gets reversed, this will be a tremendous site.
That's a shame.

You enjoy someone who wilfully repeatedly sins and spreads lies.
Then condemns those who overcome those lies with truth.

I can certainly forgive the sinful depravity in that worship and furtherance of a fallen agenda.

However,we are to rebuke sin. And those who would pursue furtherance of that fallen behavior within the community.
We are the temple that carries the holy spirit within ourselves.

Gathered as two or more we are in every sense the church,by definition.

If in a building called a church, we all were gathered,would we tolerate one who comes through the door spouting hateful words against one of our own?

"Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices "


"The one who conceals hatred has lying lips, and whoever utters slander is a fool."

"The righteous hates falsehood, but the wicked brings shame and disgrace. "
 
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