Be Holy, have reverent fear, live for righteousness, done with sin

[Willie-T]

You can either be scared of the Boogie Man.... OR you can know your loving Father.

I see just about everyone has chosen one way or the other.

 

[Grace777x70]

You can either be scared of the Boogie Man.... OR you can know your loving Father.

I see just about everyone has chosen one way or the other.

Amen Willie.

If we have a fear of punishment - it means we have not been perfected in the love of our Father for us yet.

Without being perfected in the love and grace of God towards us in Christ - we develop a performance driven religion that in reality denies the power of God to effect real change in our behavior to reflect the love and grace of our loving Father to others.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

We need to be established in His love for us in order to have that love that has been poured in our hearts by the Holy Spirit manifested outwardly to others.

 

[PeterJens]

You can either be scared of the Boogie Man.... OR you can know your loving Father.

I see just about everyone has chosen one way or the other.

I would say that the Father is both these things.

Korah, the ground opened up and his whole family were swallowed whole.

And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.
Num 16:35

We are called to walk:

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

We are only counted as Christs if we walk in obedience to Him.

But people would rather live in sin and not resolve their life issues and believe God
ignores them. Woe to them when judgement comes.

Nothing in scripture suggests God compromises with sin, ever.

 

[Willie-T]

I would say that the Father is both these things.

Korah, the ground opened up and his whole family were swallowed whole.

And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.
Num 16:35

We are called to walk:

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

We are only counted as Christs if we walk in obedience to Him.

But people would rather live in sin and not resolve their life issues and believe God
ignores them. Woe to them when judgement comes.

Nothing in scripture suggests God compromises with sin, ever.

And as long as you choose to worship something like that, you will find your desires in every page you read.

I, on the other hand, actually do believe that Jesus said we will know the Father by simply looking at Him.(Jesus) I believe one of the things Jesus came to do was to correct the horribly fouled-up view of God we had developed over the centuries. He was always showing us (them) how screwed-up they had made worship of God with their (our) religion. Remember how He kept saying "You think Scripture says..... But, I am here to tell you it meant THIS."?

 

[PeterJens]

And as long as you choose to worship something like that, you will find your desires in every page you read.

I, on the other hand, actually do believe that Jesus said we will know the Father by simply looking at Him.(Jesus) I believe one of the things Jesus came to do was to correct the horribly fouled-up view of God we had developed over the centuries. He was always showing us (them) how screwed-up they had made worship of God with their (our) religion. Remember how He kept saying "You think Scripture says..... But, I am here to tell you it meant THIS."?

I hear you. The only problem is the Father and Jesus are one.

Righteousness, holiness, purity, love, forgiveness, mercy are all wrapped up together
in layers. You cannot approach the Father unless you are righteous, holy, pure.

Jesus provides a way but on His terms. And love is the power over it all.

Walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:2

I shared about love a few years ago and I was mocked.
Once the christian faith is expressed without love at its core it has stopped
being Christian and with Christ.

And love does not work without purity, forgiveness, righteousness, integrity,
honesty, openness, truth.

So the old and new testament enhance and echo each other. As kids we like
Jesus the loving man and dislike the Father and judgement and brutal war.

But they are part of the same story. Evil desires always lead to death,
we all wish is was different but that is the testimony of our existance.

 

[Persuaded]

I hear you. The only problem is the Father and Jesus are one.

Righteousness, holiness, purity, love, forgiveness, mercy are all wrapped up together
in layers. You cannot approach the Father unless you are righteous, holy, pure.

Jesus provides a way but on His terms. And love is the power over it all.

Walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:2

I shared about love a few years ago and I was mocked.
Once the christian faith is expressed without love at its core it has stopped
being Christian and with Christ.

And love does not work without purity, forgiveness, righteousness, integrity,
honesty, openness, truth.

So the old and new testament enhance and echo each other. As kids we like
Jesus the loving man and dislike the Father and judgement and brutal war.

But they are part of the same story. Evil desires always lead to death,
we all wish is was different but that is the testimony of our existance.[/QUOTE

You said, "You cannot approach the Father unless you are righteous".

That is why Jesus is there to intercede on our behalf.
While my spirit has the righteous of Christ, my flesh is still of Adam.
Most of the sinful desires of the flesh can be overcome by the power of the Spirit, but from time to time we are blinded sided by the flesh and we fail/sin.
That will only change when I leave this flesh.

 

[JGIG]

Um, the Apostle Peter said no such thing.

You are stating that our suffering purifies us from sin, when the Bible tells us that the Blood of Christ purifies us from sin.

You continually point to self, while we continually point to Christ.

That should tell the readers here all they need to know about the heresies that you teach here.

​

Originally Posted by PeterJens

This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?

No.

We have to

1. Repent of our sins
2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
3. Follow Jesus
4. Obey Jesus's commands
5. Dwell in Gods word
6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.

. . .

A yoke is about being alongside another and taking their road and learning how to
walk it.

All of the above implies Christ has laid the way to salvation, but we have to walk it
to follow, to put effort in, to choose, to make decisions and fight the good fight.

. . .

​

​

We must enter into by faith (believe) what Christ has done on our behalf - we receive what He has done - and at that point our salvation is complete in Christ.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (from Jn. 3)​

That's pretty thorough and clear -

Jesus IS ENOUGH \o/!​

-JGIG

Let us look at this verse

Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
1 Peter 4:1

Suffering has a purifying effect on the believer. Paul is refering to suffering for righteousness
not suffering for its own sake.

And Paul is also talking about identification with the suffering Christ under went, or else you
end up with ideas about self mortification, which becomes self abuse rather than anything of
value.

First of all, the Apostle Peter wrote 1, 2, and 3 Peter, not Paul.

Peter is referring to suffering not to purify us from our sin but because we are already righteous in Christ!

Peter did not connect believers' suffering with purification from sin at all - you made that up.

In fact, in 1 Peter 3, Peter states,

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, ​

Those Peter was writing to were being persecuted because they were in Christ - they were suffering for His Name; His sake, not to purify them from their sins.

1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. 2 As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
​

Verses 1-2 speak of those who are in Christ - they are 'done with sin' - righteous in Christ - New Creations with new hearts - with a desire for the will of God.

3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.​

Peter is speaking of believers suffering persecution - because they are not joining in the things they formerly did before they were believers. Peter is not saying that suffering purifies them from their sin!

5 But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and of sober mind so that you may pray. 8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
​

If suffering purified them of their sins, why would Peter be exhorting them to love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins??? Apparently, believers still sin from time to time and need to love each other through those times. If they were purified from their sin through their suffering, there would be no need to write that.

9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen. (from 1 Pet. 4)​

Love well.

Bear the Fruit that the Spirit of God produces.

Be faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms.


​

Peter's words are an encouragement and instructions to believers who are already righteous in Christ, suffering for His sake, not informing those who are suffering that it is "to purify them from sin" . If you are in Christ, you ARE purified from sin!

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Peter in saying our suffering purifies us from sin. Now this is a pretty final
statement. But it appears you do not believe Peter.

I want to know what Peter meant and to walk in it, because he knew Christ
better than me and what can be achieved, Praise the Lord.​

You have mis-read and/or completely misinterpreted the Apostle Peter.

Take your eyes off yourself and put them on Christ.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

The HG crowd have this fascination with describing not pointing at self.
Everything we do, say, believe, have faith with, is related to ourselves so you cannot but
talk about self while being spiritual.

We are called to be holy and blameless, to walk in love and share Christs love with all.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (from Gal. 2)


​

​

It is though a tactic of the cults to move away from healthy behaviour and critical thinking
into a world where you just open up to whatever the teachers want to teach you.

Invariably it just leads to a personality cult where the teacher replaces the identity of the individual,

and loyalty is to whatever they want to push.​

​

Who are you talking about/to, PeterJens? You throw out these scenarios about imaginary people, inSINuating that you're referring to real people here who you don't know anything about. It really is a waste of time and space. And it's annoying.

-JGIG

 

[joaniemarie]

I do not know, nor will I ever know, nor probably will the Lord ever tell me,
because it is about walking not arriving, doing not being.

Have you ever seen a cyclist stationary? They fall over, because it only works
when you are moving.

I've heard it said; We are human BEINGS not human DOINGS.

 

[Willie-T]

I hear you. The only problem is the Father and Jesus are one.

Righteousness, holiness, purity, love, forgiveness, mercy are all wrapped up together
in layers. You cannot approach the Father unless you are righteous, holy, pure.

Jesus provides a way but on His terms. And love is the power over it all.

Walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:2

I shared about love a few years ago and I was mocked.
Once the christian faith is expressed without love at its core it has stopped
being Christian and with Christ.

And love does not work without purity, forgiveness, righteousness, integrity,
honesty, openness, truth.

So the old and new testament enhance and echo each other. As kids we like
Jesus the loving man and dislike the Father and judgement and brutal war.

But they are part of the same story. Evil desires always lead to death,
we all wish is was different but that is the testimony of our existance.

Such a sad, sad view. How on Earth did the Lepers, Prostitutes, Tax Collectors, and even some Pharisees approach Jesus? (Unless He had a toggle switch on his rib cage where He could turn-off being God when it was convenient.)

 

[Grace777x70]

Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do we fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by our own humanistic thoughts about "creating and maintaining our own righteousness?"

Why don't we believe in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection? Why are we continually denying Him?

He is our righteousness - there are fruits of His righteousness that are manifested but we need to get established in the "gift of righteousness" first. Rom. 5:17


The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[blue_ladybug]

I totally disagree with the part highlighted in red. That statement is absolutely not true. If a person cannot approach God unless they are pure, holy or righteous, then why does he invite unholy, impure and unrighteous sinners to come to him and receive salvation and eternal life? By your statement it seems that NO ONE can go to God unless they are totally perfect and blemish free. And that's just not true.

I hear you. The only problem is the Father and Jesus are one.

Righteousness, holiness, purity, love, forgiveness, mercy are all wrapped up together
in layers. You cannot approach the Father unless you are righteous, holy, pure.

Jesus provides a way but on His terms. And love is the power over it all.

Walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Eph 5:2

I shared about love a few years ago and I was mocked.
Once the christian faith is expressed without love at its core it has stopped
being Christian and with Christ.

And love does not work without purity, forgiveness, righteousness, integrity,
honesty, openness, truth.

So the old and new testament enhance and echo each other. As kids we like
Jesus the loving man and dislike the Father and judgement and brutal war.

But they are part of the same story. Evil desires always lead to death,
we all wish is was different but that is the testimony of our existance.

 

[Grace777x70]

I totally disagree with the part highlighted in red. That statement is absolutely not true. If a person cannot approach God unless they are pure, holy or righteous, then why does he invite unholy, impure and unrighteous sinners to come to him and receive salvation and eternal life? By your statement it seems that NO ONE can go to God unless they are totally perfect and blemish free. And that's just not true.

Amen......the truth is that the real you - the new creation in Christ which has been created in righteousness and holiness can approach God anytime because you are in Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

​Nothing against Peter, but he does seem to make quite a few erroneous, fallacious statements. After all, if his statement were true, then how is it HE got to go to God? He's as unrighteous, impure and unholy as the rest of us..

 

[PeterJens]

​Nothing against Peter, but he does seem to make quite a few erroneous, fallacious statements. After all, if his statement were true, then how is it HE got to go to God? He's as unrighteous, impure and unholy as the rest of us..

Dear blue_ladybug, this is the whole point, I am just a sinner saved by grace, not better
than anyone else.

When we are washed by the blood of Christ, cleansed by the Holy Spirit we are righteous
pure and holy.

Everytime you wash the plates after a meal they come out clean not dirty, so you can
use them again. The plate gets dirty, gets knocked about, but it can be cleansed and
made clean again.

You have spent so much time being to hard on yourself, beating yourself up about lots
of stuff, you do not see how you are before the Lord, clean, pure and holy.

If sinful thoughts arise or deeds, repentance, confession are their for cleansing and
purification. We need to work through our issues, they do change, and our heats
become different. I know because it has happened to me.

I know all the feelings, because I have gone through them myself. I sometimes
feel Jesus is too harsh, too hard, too brutal, too extreme, I can never be like this.
Yet time and again I come back, and He changes me, I progress, things become
different. We are a building being rebuilt from within, bit by bit, things changed,
healed reset, the old man being replaced by the new creation, one step at a
time.

 

[Grace777x70]

The old man is dead. God is not dealing any more with the old man - God speaks to the new man in Christ - the new creation.

There is no "replacing" being done. We are a new creation - not a new evolution. Get this part wrong and we are left with a religion of self improvement instead of living from an exchanged life. Put on Christ - be who you truly are - a new creation in Christ with a new heart - created in righteousness and holiness.

How do we manifest who we are in our new creation? What is the dynamic that God uses?

It can be seen in nature as well in the plant kingdom. The plant turns to the sun and then chlorophyll is produced which provides glucose which supplies the growth. The plant turns to the sun and change happens to it. We too "behold the Son".

We behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Keep our eyes on Jesus and His finished work for us and then we will not be trying to create and maintain our own righteousness. Let's not nullify the grace of God in our lives.

Set our minds on things above where we are seated with Christ - in seeing Him and His finished work we see Him for Himself and we too are revealed with Him. We are one spirit with Christ - our life is hidden with Him in God. The is the New Covenant dynamic for having the life of Christ that is in us reflected out in this world.

Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

[SUP]4[/SUP] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

 

[PeterJens]

You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body.
Eph 4:22-25


Here is the problem. The old self is alive and kicking in us, which the new creation
is still growing and gaining greater influence and control in areas of us based on
our past experiences.

We can choose to put off the old self, and its life style and put on the new self.
This is not a one off event, or a point in history when this occurs, it is a choice
and an actual action.

The parable of the seed and sower applies. The word of God has to take effect
and work through all aspects of who we are and how we behave and what
motivates and directs us.

You will hear talk of rooms, areas of ones life the Lord is not allowed into,
but we need to deal with it.

This reality is not an opinion, it is what we all experience, there is a process
of growth and resolution, change and transformation.

If it was not so, we would be perfect saints in all aspects of life from day 1,
which we obviously are not. Life is always about learning and change,
sowing and reaping, sowing to the Spirit and reaping eternal life.

 

[Grace777x70]

If anyone is interested in the new creation and the fact that the old man is dead ( Rom. 6:; Gal.2:20; Col.3:3 ) - I will post a video on it.

So, if the old man is dead as scripture clearly teaches - then why do we still sin? What is this "flesh" thing?

What is the putting off of the behavior that was associated with the old man that Eph. 4:22 talks about? What is the "former manner of life"? Why do these "ways of the flesh" still affect us if the old man is a goner?

Ephesians 4:22-24 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Here is a great teaching that gives us some understanding.

[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]

 

[PeterJens]

A point of note, Andrew Farley believes nothing from the old self remains in the
believer, which is laughable.

The reason why the whole issue of sin, righteousness, holiness etc is a stumbling
block is because the old self appears such an immovable thing people get totally
discouraged.

But G7 has not woken up to this, probably been in the church tooooooo long
and is just toooooo nice.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If anyone is interested in the new creation and the fact that the old man is dead

But you say you keep on sinning, so in fact you prove yourself reprobate. If the old man is not dead it is proof you are still in the flesh and serving the lusts and the desires of the flesh. It is also proof that you are not born again of the Holy Spirit and raised up a new man in Christ. When you are born again and raised up anew the old man is dead and gone, you are not now both the old man and the new man in Christ, that is like having 2 natures. If you have put on Jesus Christ you do not have 2 natures both sinful and righteous, but only one, which is the divine nature in Christ. Be not deceived.