Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

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you mean when they obey ?

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.


But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying when we come to believe what he’s saying ……letting his words be what we believe about the things of God rather than arguing that it’s not the way he said it is

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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Well, IMO those do not matter, but I also have been curious about such trivia.
I can understand that I was just encouraged to investigate the points that did not seem to fit because when they do fit, one is much more likely to be close to the truth than when they do not. But that is just what my teachers stressed.
 
John 6:40 KJV
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

it is not wise for a major doctrine to be founded on one or two scriptures.. all scriptures that shed light on the subject are needed

those that endure until the end shall be saved
those that overcome
those the bring forth fruit
on and on

Read Revelation chapters 2 and 3, the 7 churches -- these folks are "Christians" and Christ is not happy with them.
they are in the Church the Father founded on Pentecost, they all had to "believe on him" at some point in time. and Christ is ready to take their names out of the book of life.

Believing is only a beginning step, a first step

If that is not enough then read Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins --HALF --half are told I never knew you,
I must believe to be one of the 10 they first had to believe.
if your minister is telling you all one must do is believe --change churches.
 
it is not wise for a major doctrine to be founded on one or two scriptures.. all scriptures that shed light on the subject are needed

those that endure until the end shall be saved
those that overcome
those the bring forth fruit
on and on

Read Revelation chapters 2 and 3, the 7 churches -- these folks are "Christians" and Christ is not happy with them.
they are in the Church the Father founded on Pentecost, they all had to "believe on him" at some point in time. and Christ is ready to take their names out of the book of life.

Believing is only a beginning step, a first step

If that is not enough then read Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins --HALF --half are told I never knew you,
I must believe to be one of the 10 they first had to believe.
if your minister is telling you all one must do is believe --change churches.
He who endureth to the end will be saved is about being saved from trials and tribulations. Not being saved from hell, eternal salvation. The context in Mathew 24 is of deliverance/rescue from difficult times.

Saved in scripture can mean either eternal deliverance or deliverance from a bad situation.

Plus... I also gave you in the other post ..John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40 , Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8 and Romans 10:9-10.

That's not cherry picking..that's comparing like with like.
 
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I can understand that I was just encouraged to investigate the points that did not seem to fit because when they do fit, one is much more likely to be close to the truth than when they do not. But that is just what my teachers stressed.

Right. That is why I compare learning the history of beliefs to working a jigsaw puzzle.
I guess the corner pieces are creation (Gen. 1:1), judgment (Heb. 9:27, Rev. 20:11-15), monotheism (Gen. 12:1-3, Deut. 6:4-5),
and Gospel (Gal. 4:4-6, 1Cor. 15:1-5).
 
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He who endureth to the end will be saved is about being saved from trials and tribulations. Not being saved from hell, eternal salvation. The context in Mathew 24 is of deliverance/rescue from difficult times.

Saved in scripture can mean either eternal deliverance or deliverance from a bad situation.

Plus... I also gave you in the other post ..John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40 , Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8 and Romans 10:9-10.

That's not cherry picking..that's comparing like with like.

I only rely on the Word of God --- what men think, say, believe -- is nothing.

Tell me, of the three major denominations, catholic, Protestant and eastern Orthodox, which is correct, which is OF God?
they can not be all correct!
under these three are tens of thousands --
there are so many splits in what is called Christianity - because men can never agree.
Even in a congregation of 1000, there are 1500 opinions

So explain why I should believe you or any man?

I follow and copy and imitate and believe my Passover, my GOD Jesus Christ, and Him only.
 
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I only rely on the Word of God --- what men think, say, believe -- is nothing.

Tell me, of the three major denominations, catholic, Protestant and eastern Orthodox, which is correct, which is OF God?
they can not be all correct!
under these three are tens of thousands --
there are so many splits in what is called Christianity - because men can never agree.
Even in a congregation of 1000, there are 1500 opinions

So explain why I should believe you or any man?

I follow and copy and imitate and believe my Passover, my GOD Jesus Christ, and Him only.

We should learn insights of fellow believers as they share insights given by GW/HS because they are true.
We should imitate morally/spiritually mature/godly believers because it is right (1Cor. 11:1, 4:16, Eph. 5:1,
Phil. 4:9, 1Thes. 1:6, Heb. 13:7).
 
Right. That is why I compare learning the history of beliefs to working a jigsaw puzzle.
I guess the corner pieces are creation (Gen. 1:1), judgment (Heb. 9:27, Rev. 20:11-15), monotheism (Gen. 12:1-3, Deut. 6:4-5),
and Gospel (Gal. 4:4-6, 1Cor. 15:1-5).
A jigsaw puzzle with a few thousand pieces and the same picture on both sides, just rotated 90 degrees from each other. Lots of ways it can be done right on one side, but only one way to get it right on both.
 
We should learn insights of fellow believers as they share insights given by GW/HS because they are true.
We should imitate morally/spiritually mature/godly believers because it is right (1Cor. 11:1, 4:16, Eph. 5:1,
Phil. 4:9, 1Thes. 1:6, Heb. 13:7).

I listen to others until they contradict the Word.

When I am told those in the first resurrection will be in flesh and blood bodies --
When I am told the Torah is now obsolete
When I am told I must only "believe"
on and on

why should I listen?

Only when I follow the WORD does my life go well,
If I foolishly follow what some man tells me --- it does not
Again; there are 10's of thousands of churches with diverse doctrines, that is pure confusion which I refuse to be involved in.
 
A jigsaw puzzle with a few thousand pieces and the same picture on both sides, just rotated 90 degrees from each other. Lots of ways it can be done right on one side, but only one way to get it right on both.

Thankfully, sinners only need to find the four corners to be saved/on the right side.
 
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I listen to others until they contradict the Word.

When I am told those in the first resurrection will be in flesh and blood bodies --
When I am told the Torah is now obsolete
When I am told I must only "believe"
on and on

why should I listen?

Only when I follow the WORD does my life go well,
If I foolishly follow what some man tells me --- it does not
Again; there are 10's of thousands of churches with diverse doctrines, that is pure confusion which I refuse to be involved in.

We should listen because our understanding of GW may need improvement until the day we die.
For example: 1. one whose insight is that saving faith does not motivate loving works needs improved understanding of Eph. 2:8-10.
2. one whose insight is that the OT Law is not superseded by the NT Gospel needs improved understanding of Heb. 7:11-10:1.
3. one whose insight is that resurrected bodies are flesh and blood needs improved understanding of 1Cor. 15:35-49.
Etcetera.
 
I only rely on the Word of God --- what men think, say, believe -- is nothing.

Tell me, of the three major denominations, catholic, Protestant and eastern Orthodox, which is correct, which is OF God?
they can not be all correct!
under these three are tens of thousands --
there are so many splits in what is called Christianity - because men can never agree.
Even in a congregation of 1000, there are 1500 opinions

So explain why I should believe you or any man?

I follow and copy and imitate and believe my Passover, my GOD Jesus Christ, and Him only.

Yeah..imitate God who is Jesus :)

I try to do the same. You are right that all the denominations can't all be right. But the Bible interprets itself, and you find churches that more accurately stick to what it says.
 
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We should listen because our understanding of GW may need improvement until the day we die.
For example: 1. one whose insight is that saving faith does not motivate loving works needs improved understanding of Eph. 2:8-10.
2. one whose insight is that the OT Law is not superseded by the NT Gospel needs improved understanding of Heb. 7:11-10:1.
3. one whose insight is that resurrected bodies are flesh and blood needs improved understanding of 1Cor. 15:35-49.
Etcetera.

I have never be able to change a mind, even using clear scripture
Yeah..imitate God who is Jesus :)

I try to do the same. You are right that all the denominations can't all be right. But the Bible interprets itself, and you find churches that more accurately stick to what it says.
the one church found me
 
I have never be able to change a mind, even using clear scripture

the one church found me
The problem with using "clear scripture" is that what is clear depends on one's undeclared assumptions. One person believes that "A" is true, thus the "clear scripture" means one thing, another person believes that "A" is not true, therefore the "clear scripture" means something else.
 
"we have many phrases we often use instead of these scriptural words, to talk about--- getting eternal salvation."

No one can "get" or earn or find or what ever word used --- salvation i.e. eternal life ----It is a free Gift!
Salvation and eternal life cannot be EARNED because they are priceless. Only the blood of the eternal Son is precious enough to motivate the Father to give us salvation and eternal life. Jesus described this transaction as a sort of exchange - my life for His.
This is not at all an EQUITABLE exchange. In fact, in comparison to what He gave up for us what we offer Him is negligible.
Even so, the Father God invites us to enter into covenant by relinquishing the ownership of our souls to Him:

This is how Jesus put it: 25 For whoever wants to save his life [or who "clings to his life"] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 16:25)
The word translated "life" is (pseuche or soul) which refers to our mind, will and emotions. In order to enter into covenant with Messiah the life of our soul which comprises our identity in this world, must be surrendered to Him.
If the Father does not call a person and give that person to Jesus Christ, that person can never on their own--- "FIND" Jesus or gain eternal life.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How is this overlooked?? it is clear --- only those few the Father draws out of this evil world and turns over to Jesus Christ can become followers of Jesus Christ; become Christians.
It is utterly impossible for an individual, on their own, by their own will and power, to find Jesus, to repent and to be baptized and enter God's life long process of salvation.
When I was first saved it did not at the time seem to be empowering. It seemed more like a time of weakness when I realized I could no longer manage my life
I think agree we have to be drawn but many of those who have been invited to come will not unless they lay aside their own priorities and respond to the call.
 
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The problem with using "clear scripture" is that what is clear depends on one's undeclared assumptions. One person believes that "A" is true, thus the "clear scripture" means one thing, another person believes that "A" is not true, therefore the "clear scripture" means something else.

I understand and agree, what I was referring to are scriptures like this one 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
but yes there are those that will twist even this one.
 
it is not wise for a major doctrine to be founded on one or two scriptures.. all scriptures that shed light on the subject are needed

those that endure until the end shall be saved
those that overcome
those the bring forth fruit
on and on

Read Revelation chapters 2 and 3, the 7 churches -- these folks are "Christians" and Christ is not happy with them.
they are in the Church the Father founded on Pentecost, they all had to "believe on him" at some point in time. and Christ is ready to take their names out of the book of life.

Believing is only a beginning step, a first step

If that is not enough then read Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins --HALF --half are told I never knew you,
I must believe to be one of the 10 they first had to believe.
if your minister is telling you all one must do is believe --change churches.
We have to hear what he said and believe it …..

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


So we can walk by faith . I’ve found that often people are talking about obeying Moses and some rocks rather than Jesus and his word . so for instance this is a short excerpt of a sermon of Jesus which he taught the same things often in his sermons. we need to first hear and believe or we would never act in faith according to it.

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christs doctrine is where the life is of course the ultimate end and goal is our obedience consistently , that comes with the righteousness of Christ found in the gospel when we listen to him believing

Even when we hear things like this

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should believe this above because it will lead us on the right direction and give us the right mindset regarding sin being tied to death

When we start to listen the obedience comes when we hear a more mature and complete and grounded message so we don’t have to reject things like this but instead we accept them as the truth and then it shapes our faith to believe we need to act and obey …..

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The message of repentance and obedience is right in his words he had come to call sinners into repentance and obedience but ……. What’s needed is to sit and hear what the lord was really saying because it’s rarely shared among Christian’s so when people hear it ……..often they reject it having been sold a different doctrine which nots what he’s actually said and preached for salvation
 
I understand and agree, what I was referring to are scriptures like this one 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
but yes there are those that will twist even this one.
“As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”

‭‭John‬ ‭15:9-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-18‬ ‭
 
Salvation and eternal life cannot be EARNED because they are priceless. Only the blood of the eternal Son is precious enough to motivate the Father to give us salvation and eternal life. Jesus described this transaction as a sort of exchange - my life for His.
This is not at all an EQUITABLE exchange. In fact, in comparison to what He gave up for us what we offer Him is negligible.
Even so, the Father God invites us to enter into covenant by relinquishing the ownership of our souls to Him:

This is how Jesus put it: 25 For whoever wants to save his life [or who "clings to his life"] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matthew 16:25)
The word translated "life" is (pseuche or soul) which refers to our mind, will and emotions. In order to enter into covenant with Messiah the life of our soul which comprises our identity in this world, must be surrendered to Him.

When I was first saved it did not at the time seem to be empowering. It seemed more like a time of weakness when I realized I could no longer manage my life

I think agree we have to be drawn but many of those who have been invited to come will not unless they lay aside their own priorities and respond to the call.
“many of those who have been invited to come will notunless they lay aside their own priorities and respond to the call.”
Well put


“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( who’s called and invited )

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, ; teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort,
and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

As we hear the right message this happens

if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬