Believers Sins Are Forgiven & Washed Away Forever

[FlyingDove]

Ps 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Eph 1:7 In Jesus Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
(MY NOTE: Believers HAVE <Present Tense > redemption & FORGIVENESS of sins < Sins is Plural! Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: Salvation is obtained by God's GIFT of grace [Rom 3:24, Eph 4:7]. Accessed thru faith placed in Jesus faithful sin atoning death & resurrection [Rom 5:1-2]

Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see Col 1:2. Forgive each other as God FORGAVE < Past Tense/Done > you.)

Col 3:13 Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see [Col 1:2]. Vs 13 As the Lord has < Past Tense/Done > FORGIVEN you)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just 1 year or until the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believer's sins are forgiven & washed away via an EVERLASTING COVENANT!

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/forgiven.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's: Believers' sins are PARDONED.

Vines Bible dictionary say's: The believer's sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL & NOT until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen

 

[JaumeJ]

Providing one holds to the Way.

 

[CharliRenee]

Yes, He forgives! His mercies are forever more, I am so grateful!! I need Him and His Grace everyday. I do believe He does expect us to walk with Him, with all we have, to lay down our lives. I just read this and thought it nice in its accuracy and simplicity....

Ours is to do our best and He covers ther rest.

It isn't always easy but those things He wants us to do, or not do, make sense. He wants us to cause no harm to any neighbor or ourselves, to love, in thought, word and deed. When we are living to please Him our lives are usually more peaceful.

His mercy and our faith should be effectual and evident. None of us are Him though...in these imperfect bodies, we will always need His grace to cover.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Forgiveness and absolution are two very different things to consider.

Under the terms and conditions of the covenant that Moses' people agreed
upon with God, it's impossible to obtain absolution, i.e. though sins can be
forgiven, God doesn't forget them.

• Ex 34:6-7 . . Then The Lord passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed:
The Lord, The Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and
abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for
thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no
means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the
children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

Once a year, on Yom Kippur, Jews are reminded that their sins are still on
the books and not yet adequately atoned for because it requires better blood
than that of a bird or a beast for that purpose.

Christians, on the other hand, are invincible, so to speak, viz: God stopped
keeping a record of their sins the day they came to faith in Christ.

• 2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not
counting their trespasses against them

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which
means to take an inventory; i.e. an indictment.

FAQ: If true that God keeps no records of a Christian's sins, then what's
there to confess per 1John 1:5-10?

REPLY: The sins spoken of by that passage never make it to an indictment
because they're family matters rather than criminal matters, i.e. the
behavior of a child in the home overseen by a parent as opposed to the
behavior of an adult out in the world overseen by the cops and the courts.

• 1John 3:1-2 . . Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on
us, that we should be called children of God. Beloved, now we are children of
God.
_

 

[TeamSpirit]

I thank The Lord for his Grace. Only by His grace can a sinful wretched creature like me, be transformed into something useful or somewhat pleasing to Heaven. Ephesians2:8-9 For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Providing one holds to the Way.

anytime we try to make salvstion “ unconditional “ we have to then erase half the Bible and say it doesn’t apply

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we do this and if we do this other thing that changes the result from life to death the deeds he’s talking about mortifying is sin

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we keep serving sin we’re headed where sin leads which is death if we repent and accept the truth well live

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is either going to call us to repentance and belief of Christs word or it’s going to be rejected by us and twisted into an excuse of why we can keep sinning and never be held accountable

there are two forms of grace mentioned in the Bible one of them Is true it calls us to repentance and obedience to the lord and has the rewards he himself promised

and then There’s a grace that says now nothing I do wrong will ever be held to my account I’m saved if I keep sinning I’m already forgiven I don’t need to repent and live upright I’m saved I’m saved I have faith , I’ll never need to do anything he said I need to do I’m saved I’m saved

One grace is true and teaches us repentance and to live right and live lives being accountable for the things we do wrong not pretend don’t we’re not accountable now can you imagine Gods children on earth sinning against everyone and claiming I’m saved I’m Gods child I can live anyway I wish d inherit salvstion anyways

what a spoiled group of children it would be to reject the words of thier father and pretend they don’t apply to the gift he’s giving

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Ps 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Eph 1:7 In Jesus Christ we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins,
(MY NOTE: Believers HAVE <Present Tense > redemption & FORGIVENESS of sins < Sins is Plural! Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: Salvation is obtained by God's GIFT of grace [Rom 3:24, Eph 4:7]. Accessed thru faith placed in Jesus faithful sin atoning death & resurrection [Rom 5:1-2]

Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see Col 1:2. Forgive each other as God FORGAVE < Past Tense/Done > you.)

Col 3:13 Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers see [Col 1:2]. Vs 13 As the Lord has < Past Tense/Done > FORGIVEN you)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just 1 year or until the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believer's sins are forgiven & washed away via an EVERLASTING COVENANT!

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
https://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/forgiven.html

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's: Believers' sins are PARDONED.

Vines Bible dictionary say's: The believer's sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL & NOT until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen

Once saved....FOREVER saved. John 3:16 "Everlasting life"

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do
mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬

The death spoken of in that passage is often mistaken for the second death
depicted by Rev 20:11-15 whereby the lost will be terminated by something
akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

* Several words in the passage below don't belong there. Editors added them
to make the translation say what they thought it should. The added words are
indicated by underscoring.

• Rom 8:1-2 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of
the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and
death.

Here's the same passage minus the added words:

• Rom 8:1-2 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of
sin and death.

The law of sin and death is defined by Rom 6:23 which says:

"The wages of sin is death" (cf. Ezek 18:4)

Folks in Christ Jesus need not fear that law because a higher law supersedes it.
However, folks not in Christ Jesus do well to use what time they have remaining
to begin preparing themselves for the worst .
_

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Once saved....FOREVER saved. John 3:16 "Everlasting life"

how is it the Bible concludes things like this

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31

and then hypergracers explain it’s not true ? To conclude osas one has to completely reject the New Testament me all it’s blasting warnings the plain ones like “ if we continue sinning willfully free we hear the truth there’s no more sacrifice for sins but only a fearful expectation of judgement “


That’s a plain statement , where do we conclude it’s a lie ?

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1, 4

when we refuse to accept the truth about repentance it’s like we’re counting on Jesus just hanging on the cross so we can keep sinning without care , Jesus isn’t on the cross anymore it’s something he did once for all

now he is in heaven advocating for those who actually accept his word we can’t have eternal life without doing this

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And we arent going to be saved if we do this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

( because it’s this )


For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

we have to acknolwedge the truth if we do this will happen

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a difference in those who accept the truth d those who refuse to accept it . Truthfully if a believer knows thier deeds matter they’ll repent if we explain you just say I believe and. Ow your saved and no matter what you’ll never “ lose “ salvstion .

saved people don’t serve satans Will if we keep doing that and say I believe it’s actually condemning us worse than Moses law would have

“He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

it doesn’t help us to accept what’s not really there and what’s plainly refuted

 

[Snacks]

Providing one holds to the Way.

Thankfully Christ does the holding

 

[Pilgrimshope]

.


The death spoken of in that passage is often mistaken for the second death
depicted by Rev 20:11-15 whereby the lost will be terminated by something
akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

* Several words in the passage below don't belong there. Editors added them
to make the translation say what they thought it should. The added words are
indicated by underscoring.

• Rom 8:1-2 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of
the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and
death.

Here's the same passage minus the added words:

• Rom 8:1-2 . .There is therefore now no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of
sin and death.

The law of sin and death is defined by Rom 6:23 which says:

"The wages of sin is death" (cf. Ezek 18:4)

Folks in Christ Jesus need not fear that law because a higher law supersedes it.
However, folks not in Christ Jesus do well to use what time they have remaining
to begin preparing themselves for the worst .
_

“The death spoken of in that passage is often mistaken for the second death”

of course it’s about the second death all mankind is already appointed to the first

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after a believer dies they have to face the final judgement which is the second death

Paul isn’t talking about escaping the natural death we all face he’s talking about saving our souls from judgement from this

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31‬ ‭

see it does t mean anything when we read that and then explain it away by quoting this

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭

That doesn’t then erase the clear conclusion out what happens I bee keep sinning yer we accept the gospel d receive THe holy spirit here again look how clear it is

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭

again to quote a verse somewhere in scriptire saying “your saved by grace “ that doesn’t erase the truth of what’s actually there it’s those plain things that we reject this blinding our eyesight

receiving the Holy Spirit is a gift a promise from God after we accept the gospel we have to start walking in the spirit d not walking in the flesh in other words we have to repent of sin and start obeying the gospel d if we will never come to that point ere going to be in the group that refused to bear fruit me was cast away

here’s another really plain statement

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and another even plainer statement

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see it doesn’t change anything to search for a scripture elsewhere that’s going to then prove what’s in the same epistles wrong lol it’s a circular avoidance of what’s plainly attes without having to pluck anything from its context paul can’t be grasped by looking for just our own thoughts in his letters and gathering as many grace verses as we can it’s a comprehensive continual message it’s all relevant if we want to actually understand we can’t try to erase one scripture by finding one elsewhere gay seems to contradict it we’re saved by grace through faith

this doesn’t exclude our actions it means we need to walk by faith and act in faith that’s how we’ll be saved through faith

the simplicity is to just acknolwedge it all that way we find comfort and assurance we learn that Jesus is for us and he is saving us continually always with us

but we also are hearing his call to repentance and righteousness t the same time this is what changes us by acknolwedging the truth about jidgement there’s no other description in the Bible but the same one Jesus made clear

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the same judgement paul explains to Christian’s who read his epistles repeatedly same one the prophets and other apostles taught it’s truth to t cause this to acknowledge it

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to come here to be free of satans dominion over us

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why he came and there’s no other path to God but through Christ and acknolwedging the truth that’s where all that doctrine of Paul came from look what Jesus said then read this

“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:14-18‬ ‭

He’s saying the same thing Jesus did “if you who believe keep My word you’ll know the truth and be set free of servitude to sin “ we have to come to repentance because that’s what Jesus said along with his apostles grace does t mean we can now keep sinning not at all “God forbid “as Paul puts it

I’m all for we’re saved by grace but the grace the Bible tells us of doesn’t excuse our ongoing sin it takes it away if we don’t refuse to let it go

 

[Nehemiah6]

Vines Bible dictionary say's: The believer's sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL & NOT until the next time you slip/fall/sin.

We need to be careful in how we present the remission or forgiveness of sins.

1. It is Christ Himself who said that repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.

2. When a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, all his or her past sins are forgiven.

3. At the same time, the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. The tendency to sin remains.

4. Therefore believers are commanded to "crucify the flesh" and to "walk in the Spirit".

5. However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved. But there is imputed righteousness.

6. Therefore the Bible addresses Christians and says that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. We also make God a liar.

7. But if we confess our sins (which includes repentance) God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

8. However some Christians may not repent and change their ways, and therefore there is also a "sin unto death" for those who are believers.

9. Therefore Paul warns Christians to examine themselves, particularly before partaking of the Lord's Supper. Those who partake unworthily may be subject to premature death (the sin unto death).

10. The Hyper-Grace crowd refuses to accept these teachings, and insists that once a person is saved they do not need to deal with their present sins. That is a lie.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

how is it the Bible concludes things like this

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31

and then hypergracers explain it’s not true ? To conclude osas one has to completely reject the New Testament me all it’s blasting warnings the plain ones like “ if we continue sinning willfully free we hear the truth there’s no more sacrifice for sins but only a fearful expectation of judgement “


That’s a plain statement , where do we conclude it’s a lie ?

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1, 4

when we refuse to accept the truth about repentance it’s like we’re counting on Jesus just hanging on the cross so we can keep sinning without care , Jesus isn’t on the cross anymore it’s something he did once for all

now he is in heaven advocating for those who actually accept his word we can’t have eternal life without doing this

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And we arent going to be saved if we do this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

( because it’s this )


For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

we have to acknolwedge the truth if we do this will happen

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a difference in those who accept the truth d those who refuse to accept it . Truthfully if a believer knows thier deeds matter they’ll repent if we explain you just say I believe and. Ow your saved and no matter what you’ll never “ lose “ salvstion .

saved people don’t serve satans Will if we keep doing that and say I believe it’s actually condemning us worse than Moses law would have

“He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

it doesn’t help us to accept what’s not really there and what’s plainly refuted

You say,
"then hypergracers explain it’s not true ?"


I never said anything about those verses you posted not being true.
The entire Bible from Genesis to the closing of Revelation is TRUE.

I can see why some would disagree on your interpretation of those verses.
That does not make the Scriptures untrue....
"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar"
Romans 3

Jesus said to a highly educated man in the Law and prophetic books, who trusted in his obedience to the many commandments given to the saved as means of salvation,

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:16,17&18
"


Later

 

[Evmur]

anytime we try to make salvstion “ unconditional “ we have to then erase half the Bible and say it doesn’t apply

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we do this and if we do this other thing that changes the result from life to death the deeds he’s talking about mortifying is sin

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16, 19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we keep serving sin we’re headed where sin leads which is death if we repent and accept the truth well live

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is either going to call us to repentance and belief of Christs word or it’s going to be rejected by us and twisted into an excuse of why we can keep sinning and never be held accountable

there are two forms of grace mentioned in the Bible one of them Is true it calls us to repentance and obedience to the lord and has the rewards he himself promised

and then There’s a grace that says now nothing I do wrong will ever be held to my account I’m saved if I keep sinning I’m already forgiven I don’t need to repent and live upright I’m saved I’m saved I have faith , I’ll never need to do anything he said I need to do I’m saved I’m saved

One grace is true and teaches us repentance and to live right and live lives being accountable for the things we do wrong not pretend don’t we’re not accountable now can you imagine Gods children on earth sinning against everyone and claiming I’m saved I’m Gods child I can live anyway I wish d inherit salvstion anyways

what a spoiled group of children it would be to reject the words of thier father and pretend they don’t apply to the gift he’s giving

The Lord could not manage without us eh?

 

[Evmur]

We need to be careful in how we present the remission or forgiveness of sins.

1. It is Christ Himself who said that repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.

2. When a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, all his or her past sins are forgiven.

3. At the same time, the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. The tendency to sin remains.

4. Therefore believers are commanded to "crucify the flesh" and to "walk in the Spirit".

5. However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved. But there is imputed righteousness.

6. Therefore the Bible addresses Christians and says that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. We also make God a liar.

7. But if we confess our sins (which includes repentance) God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

8. However some Christians may not repent and change their ways, and therefore there is also a "sin unto death" for those who are believers.

9. Therefore Paul warns Christians to examine themselves, particularly before partaking of the Lord's Supper. Those who partake unworthily may be subject to premature death (the sin unto death).

10. The Hyper-Grace crowd refuses to accept these teachings, and insists that once a person is saved they do not need to deal with their present sins. That is a lie.

We do not reject the discipline of the Lord, we reject any suggestion that such chastisement could include damnation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We need to be careful in how we present the remission or forgiveness of sins.

1. It is Christ Himself who said that repentance is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.

2. When a sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, all his or her past sins are forgiven.

3. At the same time, the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. The tendency to sin remains.

4. Therefore believers are commanded to "crucify the flesh" and to "walk in the Spirit".

5. However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved. But there is imputed righteousness.

6. Therefore the Bible addresses Christians and says that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. We also make God a liar.

7. But if we confess our sins (which includes repentance) God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

8. However some Christians may not repent and change their ways, and therefore there is also a "sin unto death" for those who are believers.

9. Therefore Paul warns Christians to examine themselves, particularly before partaking of the Lord's Supper. Those who partake unworthily may be subject to premature death (the sin unto death).

10. The Hyper-Grace crowd refuses to accept these teachings, and insists that once a person is saved they do not need to deal with their present sins. That is a lie.

good post

“However it is possible for Christians to sin, and they can and do sin after salvation. There is no sinless perfection for those who have been saved.”

this part is how we deal with times we fail we don’t pretend we didn’t sin or God doesn’t care that we sinned but we repent

“If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:6-10‬ ‭

this is for believers when we commit a sin or better understood when we as Christian’s realize we have done something wrong , our place is to acknowledge it before God and repent from the heart because we’ve become aware that we’ve done harm or served satans Will rather than Gods

I agree with you when you said there’s no sinless perfection , it’s about us just being real with ourselves and with God so when we become aware of sin we have to stand in the light of the gospel and not try to hide in darkness of the world pretending it’s not satans Will for us to sin, and not Gods Will for us to walk upright lives before him

the darkness and light johns talking abo it isn’t good and evil but he’s speaking from the gospel

light exposes whatever is In a dark room , if it’s dark no one knows what’s in the room but the moment the light is turned on everything in the room becomes visible this is bound to show us flaws and things we think and do wrong Christs doctrine is that light that does this

“But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we don’t want to let go of our sin it causes us to remain outside the light so our sins can’t be reproved

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we come into the gospel it’s going to show us our sin and call us to repentance . If we’re in love with the pleasures of sin we’re going to avoid the word at all cost that calls us to repentance we’re going to keep
Ourselves out of the light so we can pretend d keep sinning keeping ourselves in the dark so we can freely keep loving for our own pleasures rather than accepting Gods Will for our lives

Christian’s still make mistakes but they don’t hide from Hod like Adam whe. He sinned they come near to God and find repentance and forgiveness before it’s too late

God doesn’t want any of us to perish so he’s allowing for us to acknolwedge the truth d come to repentance

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is actually something Jesus said because he loves us and doesn’t want us to perish

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if I am in love with sin I’m going to reject that and do all I can to make it not true I don’t want to see the truth because deep down I know I’m serving sin and do t want to let it go so the requirement of repentance seems to just drift away in the grace grace doctrine.

if I’m willing to accept and walk in his light that’s going to expose me but also reassure me of his goodness and provision to save me but we can’t pretend we havent sinned if we have if we do that it’s never going to lead us to repent because we’re not allowing repentance to even be a factor when it is a major factor

good post brother a lot of good thoughts in there thanks for sharing

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Lord could not manage without us eh?

lol huh ?

no the lord said what he said To us and said believe it and you’ll be saved

it just says what it says and I believe it it’s not “ Christ already did everything g for me “ it is “ God has remade me at the core and I can do all thkngs through Christ who gives me strength “


Christ is about taking broken lost people and making them strong faithful children of God who are empowered by his nature and spirit to overcome Satan me his plot to kill us

God is informing us of the truth

our goal is to walk to walk d he’s the one who gives us the strength to do so and be saved no I think we couldn’t manage without God , but with him we are well able “


This doesn’t mean we now get to re wrote salvation Christ is able to change the sinner in us to a righteous child of God who’s able to walk

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ is about empowering us to do what we need to do this is dependance upon him but not independent from his word

salvstion is explained well in scripture it’s not a hostage situation or forcible thing but an true and sure offer that if we accept the gospel and believe we shall be saved

as we hear and believe our expectations are going to grow in the end we’re going to be new kind of person o isn’t driven by satans Will but by Gods Will just as we say “ we’re all just helpless sinners “ we can come to place where we say “ we are the children of God free ofnthe dominion of sin well able to walk upright lives because of him

no one can manage without God but this doesn’t mean his words aren’t true and correct that require of us that’s always been the plan

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus teaches us about true salvstion and it does require of us

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You say,
"then hypergracers explain it’s not true ?"


I never said anything about those verses you posted not being true.
The entire Bible from Genesis to the closing of Revelation is TRUE.

I can see why some would disagree on your interpretation of those verses.
That does not make the Scriptures untrue....
"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar"
Romans 3

Jesus said to a highly educated man in the Law and prophetic books, who trusted in his obedience to the many commandments given to the saved as means of salvation,

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:16,17&18
"


Later

yeah your whole message says it’s not true lol it’s just a rejection of it a lot of folks do that nothing new

yeah again it doesn’t change what it says to find other scripture seemingly disagreeing with it

“can see why some would disagree on your interpretation of those verses.”

to be clear this isn’t my interpretation it’s plain straight forward words wrotten by apostles that’s the issue your looking for a way to “ interpret it away “ but try working it into the stuff your quoting like you said to is is absolutely true right ?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


see that’s not me k re-electing anything it’s a quote from scriptire that says what it says it doesn’t need to be interpreted like a prophecy it’s the revelation part we’re supposed to hear and believe it


“if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries”

it would take you interpreting it away to involve any interpretation it just says what it says plainly but like I was saying if you want to gather grace verses out of context and say it doesn’t apply , that’s not me interpreting anything it is you interpreting plain things away and quoting out of context grace verses lol it’s a circle how do you “interpret “this

if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries”

would you let John 3:16? How does that change what is plainly written there ?

we don’t need to interpret the New Testament it’s meant to believe

the res no way to make this not true is the thing you can go in the grace circle which I already was saying opting a bear elsewhere doesn’t change the message that’s written plainly

what happens if Christian’s keep sinning willfully ( refusing the need to repent ) ? Are they saved too ? The Bible says that if we do that there’s bo more sacrifice for our sins an d we have nothing but fearful judgement ahead “ again though thy at isn’t what I think it’s what it says I just accept and believe it how about you ?

would we be saved if we don’t repent ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We do not reject the discipline of the Lord, we reject any suggestion that such chastisement could include damnation.

“we reject any suggestion that such chastisement could include damnation.”

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

Judged by their own works both groups are saved though ? And not damned based on thier deeds ?

do you see salvation here also ?

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

your think they are also saved who don’t repent and obey the gospel ? Bekng shut out from Christ and being punished with everlasting destruction ?


These also they’re saved ?

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they also are saved too who continue on willfully sinning making repentance irrelevant ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this reward for those who obey and do good

immortality, eternal life:

is the same as this

“obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

indignation and wrath but they aren’t damned ? They are saved too ?

We who believe should all ask the question Peter poses here and let the scripture answer it for us

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17-18KJV‬‬

Paul answered that

the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭

when your reading Paul know that all he taught was meant to bring you into repentance and obedience to the gospel because it’s salvstion

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what it’s all about because we have to answer for our deeds we can repent and be forgiven or we can refuse and serve sin d carry it all to judgement on this day

Paul had a message of terror among his epistles and spoke it to all of them as a warning

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God;
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we won’t accept the evil of sin and that we keep serving it well never find repentance which is what Gods waiting for

Why hasn’t Jesus come back yet ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to find repentance it’s the reason he came

“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

why is it so important to Jesus ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he doesn’t want us to perish like in the beginning and allll throughout God is warning people and saying believe and be saved “

it’s simple really Jesus came to save sinners who had no hope of salvation before he came , all he requires is for us to hear his teachkngs and words hear about his death and resurrection and believe and follow those thkngs we learn that’s always going to save people but if we reject the clear truths about sin and repentance and judgement we’re rejecting the salvation he has offered us

we need tomlewrn to understand sin is poisonous to the human soul Christ came to take it’s done trim and dominion over us away we can be saved

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament solidifies this repeatedly if ye serve sin ye shall die but if you mortify the deeds of the flesh you will live

 

[Blik]

.
Forgiveness and absolution are two very different things to consider.

Under the terms and conditions of the covenant that Moses' people agreed
upon with God, it's impossible to obtain absolution, i.e. though sins can be
forgiven, God doesn't forget them.

• Ex 34:6-7 . . Then The Lord passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed:
The Lord, The Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and
abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for
thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no
means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the
children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.
_

God had Moses give the law in stone, not in the heart. The letter of the law remained the same under Christ, but at the same time it was entirely different when it was no longer simply a set of rules written in stone.

Under Moses, people were saved in sleep, not in life with God. When the curtain was split at the physical death of Christ, those saints rose from their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem. It tells us about it in Matt. 27:52-53.

In Exodus 34 the Lord is telling us that when God forgives us, it does not mean that we don'e have to pay the earthly earthly results of our sin. Repentant thiefs are forgiven of their sin and may live forever with the Lord in heaven and enjoy fellowship with him, but they must go to jail.