True, but faith in following Jesus will produce the fruit of law keeping in the life.
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True, but faith in following Jesus will produce the fruit of law keeping in the life.
K
Kerry
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
Yes as saved person you will fall in line with God's moral code. Which has nothing to do with a day nor food.
L
Linda70
Guest
That's not what Scriptures say...(Galatians 5:16-26). The "fruit" which is produced by faith doesn't come through the "keeping the law". The "fruit" produced comes from "walking in the Spirit":
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Walking in the Spirit is the total opposite of trying to "keep the Law". The rule of life for the Christian is not the Ten Commandments (or trying to keep the law), but the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. We are to put on Christ, not the Ten Commandments:
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Well we might disagree a little their. The day is part of those 10 commandments. And we get what we eat Gods health laws are for our good. Healthy eating = healthy brain = better understanding and communication with God.
K
Kerry
Guest
Go , you have your convictions and I am not about to detour you only the Holy Spirit can do that. Pre law God told Noah that everything that moves shall be food for you even as the green herb. My brother the Sabbath was not repeated in the NT, Jesus said come unto me all ye that are heavy laden for I shall give you rest. Jesus is the Sabbath and it is impossible to hold to Gods standards with out the Spirit. The only way to have the Spirit help us is tio have faith in the cross and not what we do. Understand
Interesting concept of which some parts I would agree.
I break it down nice a simple.
Sin = breaking the law 1 John 3:4.
Jesus has freed us from sin and the devil. 1 John 3:5,8
So if we do not sin 1 John 3:7,9, then we are not breaking the law by default which means we are keeping it.
Saying we are healed in Jesus and yet still walking in sin/flesh, Is like a man in a wheelchair wheeling himself around saying Jesus healed my legs I can walk.
Really doesn't cut it for me. Its like a man in prison telling me that he is free and no longer chained.
While we do not chase after the law but rather Jesus by faith. If Jesus is really in your heart then you will not sin. That is the new birth. new creature in Christ.
haven't you ever wondered why so many people claim to be born again and new creatures in Christ yet they still resemble the old man of sin in many ways? Yes many slightly repackaged but still salves to sin in some way.
Have you ever wondered how Come God can heal and even resurrect or even create from nothing, but the people who follow Him Don't believe that this same God can strengthen them to overcome sin?
Does anyone here doubt that God wants to get rid of sin?
Does anyone doubt that God is powerful enough to get rid of it from our lives?
Does anyone doubt that God is willing to do this for us in Christ?
If you do then your problem is lack of faith.
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
your last sentence I agree with. lovely.
Seen not one scripture to say that Jesus replaces the Sabbath.
God did indeed tell Noah to eat meat, Seems lifespans deteriorated in length from that point also. I eat for health not because of a rule. we are to Glorify God with what we eat and drink. I don't think we can glorify God by eating things that destroy our bodies and our brain function. Things that make us sick and produce disease in our bodies.
Did you know that Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure etc are all largely caused by what we eat?
Did you know that many of these things can be reversed by simply not eating meat or dairy?
And this is no based on only studies I have read but I run programs for people at our church and they are constantly shocked when they do this and get their results from the Doctors. So its not just theory its reality.
I am not telling you what you should do, Just letting you know the reality of it all.
I believe it glorifies God to be strong and healthy as possible so that you can help others in their needs and follow God more closely.
In Fact something that always and I mean always happens with Christians who do this program end up telling me down the track how their spiritual life has gotten much better on the healthy lifestyle. They speak of the Word becoming more clear and their connection to Jesus being more clear.
So you can do what you want, but ask yourself am I glorifying God with what I eat?
1Co_10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
blessings
You Lawkeepers what do you boast about, the Law or The Lord Jesus Christ, that filled you with his holyspirit, that teaches and tells all truth and made you no longer a slave to sin.
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Thee disciples of Christ clearly did not want a yoke place around there neck that the Father themself could not bear, why do ye not want to follow there teaching ?
Acts 13:39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
The Purpose of the Law
(NASB)
Galatians 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
(KJV)
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:23-25
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3 :26-29
Sons Through Faith in Christ
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
To all thy lawkeeps are you still under a schoolmaster or has FAITH come ?
You can not choose both , the scripture are clear of this very thing.
FAITH OR SCHOOLMASTER ?
God Bless
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Thee disciples of Christ clearly did not want a yoke place around there neck that the Father themself could not bear, why do ye not want to follow there teaching ?
Acts 13:39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
The Purpose of the Law
(NASB)
Galatians 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
(KJV)
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:23-25
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 3 :26-29
Sons Through Faith in Christ
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
To all thy lawkeeps are you still under a schoolmaster or has FAITH come ?
You can not choose both , the scripture are clear of this very thing.
FAITH OR SCHOOLMASTER ?
God Bless
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H
haz
Guest
We differ much in understanding of scripture.
To walk after the Spirit is to believe on Jesus.
To walk after the flesh is to seek to establish righteousness by works of the law, which is unbelief.
True.
But you miss it's point.
Christians establish/uphold the law as the measure of righteousness that is required to be in God's kingdom. We agree that only the righteous can enter His kingdom. Jesus met that measure of righteousness. He deservedly can enter God's kingdom.
Christians also agreed with the law that we deserved the death penalty under the law. Thus again we establish the law here too.
We needed a savior.
Christians gladly sought for our old man to be crucified with Christ, (Rom 6:6). Our body is now already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10. Our life is now hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
So why would we then seek to determine our righteousness by whether that old, dead by faith, physical part of us can obey the law perfectly?
Legalists establish the law too. But for them they have been deceived into seeking to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness, Rom 10:4.
No offence, but here it sounds like doubting Thomas. He would not believe until her saw the physical evidence.
You too are looking for physical evidence of perfect obedience to the law before you will accept that you're righteous.
For Christians our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:10.
How is this being crippled?
You wrongly focus on the physical only, waiting for proof of perfect obedience to the law before you will believe that yo're no longer crippled.
That thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was righteous (Rom 4:5), holy (Rom 11:16), complete (Col 2:10). perfected (Heb 10:14), in Christ, without the physical evidence of perfect obedience to the law that you insist that we must see.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen , Heb 11:1
L
Linda70
Guest
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
F
Frank
Guest
2 Timothy 2:5 And if a man strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
I personally dont want to tie the hands of my Savior!! So I choose to cooperate with grace!! Throughout the bible there's instances of this cooperation. At the end of the day if i continue to knowingly sin, first that strong conviction will get weaker(veil). So when I no longer listen to conviction He will send prophetic message. Ignore that, then comes affliction!!! Everyone knows what comes after that!!!! Heres the most wonderful part of all that, during any of this if we go to Him with a humble and contrite heart and depend on Him in faith, and cooperate. He will change us!!!
Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly, but make no mistake where going to change either way!!
I personally dont want to tie the hands of my Savior!! So I choose to cooperate with grace!! Throughout the bible there's instances of this cooperation. At the end of the day if i continue to knowingly sin, first that strong conviction will get weaker(veil). So when I no longer listen to conviction He will send prophetic message. Ignore that, then comes affliction!!! Everyone knows what comes after that!!!! Heres the most wonderful part of all that, during any of this if we go to Him with a humble and contrite heart and depend on Him in faith, and cooperate. He will change us!!!
Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly, but make no mistake where going to change either way!!
F
Frank
Guest
Emunuh Hebrew for faith represents ACTIVE trust in the goodness of Lord, and expresses itself as loyalty to His will!!! Faith is a action word. Faith isnt just a state of mind!!
Actually the opposite is true to what I focus on. I have found that faith in Jesus death and resurrection is what I put my Faith in, My focus is in Christ my redeemer and mediator. The keeping the law bit just happens. I found in the Past focusing on the law tended to end in failure.
I agree the thief on the cross was righteous, holy and complete and perfect in Christ. That is why I said in an earlier post that Death bed salvation does happen.
The only thing I don't agree with is that If I keep living In faith I will keep sinning till Jesus comes. that Is what I don't agree with, I have Faith that Jesus will change me totally and more and more as each day goes by. This is my experience. I can truly say I am not the same person I was a week ago not even a day ago. By beholding our Savior daily we are changed into His image.
I suppose the difference I see is this: we are declared righteous, holy, complete and perfect in Christ at the moment we repent and die to self in acceptance of Jesus life, death, resurrection and intercession for us.
To that point I think we agree.
I however do not think it stops there, Jesus actually conforms our characters to His character so that we do not sin. This also is the work of Jesus in us by Faith. man can not do it but Jesus can.
Thus the thief on the cross and all those who confess Jesus at their death bed can be saved, even though they did not live to be changed by Jesus.
but those who do live will be changed day by day by faith the very same faith they were imputed and justified by in the first place.
Im not saying work your way to heaven, I am saying have more Faith, trust Jesus to do more for and in you.
by the way If someone comes to me and says Jesus healed my leprosy and they have leprosy I'd be a fool to believe that. It is not a lack of faith it is an expectation of the promise Jesus gave.
When Jesus told the lepers in Luke 17 to go show themselves to the priests. they went that was Faith in things hoped for things not seen. but they on the way were healed and then hope and Faith were revealed and they could see their healing.
Faith is not blind it hinges of the word of God and my God said He will restore us fully. So it has been in my walk with God, I had faith in his word about our sins being cleansed in Jesus, and Faith that he would give me a new heart and His spirit and that His law/love would be fulfilled in me. but as I walked in this Faith God started changing me the way I think and act. Others started noticing before I did.
See you see that Faith without works is dead.
H
haz
Guest
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I'm trying to fit in replies during my work day.
What do you define as "try to obey" the law?
Are you suggesting that we must attain some minimum standard of obedience as proof of righteousness/salvation?
If so, then what is that minimum standard of obedience to the law that is required?
Also, as Christians are not even under the law, why are you then claiming that obedience to it is required as works that shows our faith?
Here you preach condemnation/death to anyone who does not attain some minimum standard of obedience to the law, plus a couple of extra rules that are not included in the law (lying and drunkenness).
I suggest you are misunderstanding scripture.
Please consider what God is referring to, instead of thinking only in limited physical terms.
Who is a liar, as described by God?
1John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments (believe on Jesus and love one another, 1John 3:23), is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
Scripture tells us who God says a liar is. We should not neglect this important fact.
If we make misleading generalizations that lying condemns people to death then that is false teaching.
As for drunkenness, again God tells us what He means by that.
Rev 17:1,2
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters (this refers to people, Rev 17:15), with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."
And what fornication is it referring to?
It refers to spiritual fornication with Hagar, who is symbolic for the doctrine of righteousness by works of the law.
Gal 4:21-24
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children
It's the legalists who are into spiritual drunkenness, as God Himself describes. Legalists are drunk with the wine of spiritual fornication with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law.
Clearly we should look to how God describe terms, instead of making up our own generalizations based only on physical perspective.
Christians look forward to the spiritual Sabbath. God's Sabbath/day of rest. Heb 4:9,10
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience (unbelief).
Jesus was asked what works we should do, John 6:28.
He answered: "believe on him whom He hath sent", John 6:29.
BTW, the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
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2Thewaters
Guest
you confuse things again
circumcision law is not of faith
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,
circumcision law is not of faith
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,
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2Thewaters
Guest
faith is doing the word of God
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (circumcsion sacrifices) Nay: but by the law of faith (ten commandments).
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done,
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (circumcsion sacrifices) Nay: but by the law of faith (ten commandments).