BEWARE the Lawkeepers

[gotime]

Interesting the different views.

Especially when its those who think it is impossible to keep the law even with Jesus. who really lacks faith?

 

[haz]

Interesting the different views.

Especially when its those who think it is impossible to keep the law even with Jesus. who really lacks faith?

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12

Gotime, the issue has always been about condemnation under the law of sin and death.
Do you recall how you made the point that condemnation be required for sin/transgression of the law?

You even described those of us believing on Jesus (without works of the law) as being like "cripples".

Because of the doctrine you follow you see believers as "cripples" unless they have works of the law as evidence of their "imparted" righteousness and salvation.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" had faith, and that without any works of the law.
That thief believed God's promise of eternal life in Christ. His faith was counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12

 

[Laodicea]

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12

Gotime, the issue has always been about condemnation under the law of sin and death.
Do you recall how you made the point that condemnation be required for sin/transgression of the law?

You even described those of us believing on Jesus (without works of the law) as being like "cripples".

Because of the doctrine you follow you see believers as "cripples" unless they have works of the law as evidence of their "imparted" righteousness and salvation.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" had faith, and that without any works of the law.
That thief believed God's promise of eternal life in Christ. His faith was counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5

The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12

Had the thief on the cross lived would he have kept the law "Thou shalt not steal". Or would he have continued being a thief?

 

[haz]

Had the thief on the cross lived would he have kept the law "Thou shalt not steal". Or would he have continued being a thief?

Why did you not quote the commandments of Jesus?
1John 3:23
1: Believe on Jesus (where our faith is counted for righteousness)
2: Love one another (and love does no ill to another. Love also forgives 7x70. Hence we show the same love/grace to others as God showed us).

I'm curious how you see the many Christians here who never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Do you see Christians who do not have works of the law that you demand, as "cripples"? Or do you see them as lost?

 

[john832]

yes there are.

but you will not find them in the OT laws.

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Not repeated in the N.T. Would you then say that this Law is not a good Law and not to be observed?

 

[john832]

I disagree in a huge way. The law would not tell me how to return the dog. God does. through his love shown me.

????

Exo 23:4 If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.

Deu 22:1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.
Deu 22:2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.
Deu 22:3 In like manner shalt thou do with his ass; and so shalt thou do with his raiment; and with all lost thing of thy brother's, which he hath lost, and thou hast found, shalt thou do likewise: thou mayest not hide thyself.
Deu 22:4 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again.

 

[john832]

The law was our tutor to show us what sin is, and to lead us away from it so that we can be closer to God.

The Law spoken of here was the Law of Sacrifices that pointed to the perfect Sacrifice that was coming.

By our Lord Jesus crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of those sins, we no longer now are under that tutor for we should no longer be taught but now know right from wrong. But come to acceptance of our sin, and repent of them.

We are then to try and walk a good life producing good works ( fruit ), and when we backslide we are to ask for forgiveness of that sin we have done to cause the back slide, and repent of it.

If you continue in willful sin, with out repentance or forgiveness of that sin you will not be saved.

We all sin, the difference is do you repent and ask forgiveness of that sin when you do it ?

 

[john832]

What does "liking God's rules" have to do with the topic of this thread?

The Christian is not Under the Law as a Rule of Life, and the Christian is not Under the Law as a Means of Sanctification.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Rom. 6:14 and see verse 15)

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:2-3)

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law" (Gal. 5:18)

"The just shall live by faith and the law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them" (Gal. 3:11-12)

The law cannot give life. The law cannot make a person holy. It cannot sanctify. There is no problem with the law (Rom. 7;12) except that sinful, depraved people cannot keep it (Rom. 7:14). Those who put themselves under law will certainly experience bondage because sin will have dominion over them (compare Rom. 6:14). Jesus Christ is our rule of life: "For to me to live is Christ" (Phil. 1:21). Our fleshly struggles and striving to keep God’s holy law can only end in failure. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:2). The law can never be fulfilled by us, but it can be fulfilled IN US by the power and working of God appropriated by faith: "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:4). Salvation is "by grace through faith" and so is sanctification.

This entire thread comes down to this...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Laodicea]

Why did you not quote the commandments of Jesus?
1John 3:23
1: Believe on Jesus (where our faith is counted for righteousness)
2: Love one another (and love does no ill to another. Love also forgives 7x70. Hence we show the same love/grace to others as God showed us).

I'm curious how you see the many Christians here who never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

Do you see Christians who do not have works of the law that you demand, as "cripples"? Or do you see them as lost?

Does the commandments of Jesus conflict with the commandments of God? Do you believe Jesus is God, the I AM? Are you afraid to answer my question with a yes or No? I will not answer your question unless you answer my question with a yes or no.

 

[john832]

Does the commandments of Jesus conflict with the commandments of God? Do you believe Jesus is God, the I AM? Are you afraid to answer my question with a yes or No? I will not answer your question unless you answer my question with a yes or no.

Jesus gave the Commandments. The Father has NEVER spoken directly to man...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So how could He have a conflict with Himself?

 

[2Thewaters]

This entire thread comes down to this...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You dont listen well at all

the law still stands
it shows us that we have carnal minds
it brings us to christ
and we are born again

without the law
you can sit there day after day and believe you are saved
when you are really not even born again

for to keep the law you must be born again

if you are truly born again you will actually be able to keep the whole law

Jesus did
and he said follow me

read your Bible

in every book it talks about repentance and being born again

I notice he keeps answering all your false objections
it doesnt MATTER what you think
the law still stands

it still neds to be kept

and when nYOU FINALLY get to the point and say

BUT I CANT DO IT!!!!
then you go to Jesus and ask
BE MY SAVIOR give me the holy spirit
and he will
and you WILL BE ABLE TO KEEP EVERY LAW

if you are not keeping every commandment, that means you are NOT BORN AGAIN

you are not
you can say what you want
but you are not born again while you are sinning

for those born again cease from sins

so go to Jesus say
I love your law
it is not bad
it shows me you have decived yourself
it wshows you you are sinning
so then you need to repent and get born again
and you stop sinning
it is that easy

 

[Laodicea]

Jesus gave the Commandments. The Father has NEVER spoken directly to man...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So how could He have a conflict with Himself?

Exactly. Jesus is the I AM, the one who spoke the 10 commandments. People speak of the commandments of Jesus as though they are different or make void God's commandments. Jesus even called Himself the I AM.

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus gave the Commandments. The Father has NEVER spoken directly to man...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So how could He have a conflict with Himself?

I notice you are ALWYAS WRONG

you are very Bible illiterate

try reading the bible once at least

Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus gave the Commandments. The Father has NEVER spoken directly to man...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So how could He have a conflict with Himself?

I notice you are ALWYAS WRONG

you are very Bible illiterate

try reading the bible once at least

Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

2 Pet 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 Pet 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

 

[2Thewaters]

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


Jesus never spoke any word of his own, only the fathers words

look
you have been hypnotized badly about the law
you are all wrong on it
the law is good
it is necessary
it still stands and it brings us to christ
and when we are born again we keep every commandment

READ YOUR BIBLE

 

[2Thewaters]

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


the truth is NOT IN one who speaks against the law

iif one dont keep the commandments
then he is NOT BORN AGAIN

so simple

just GET BORN AGAIN

all you have to do is PRAY that God give you the spirit and strength to keep the law today
without that prayer you cannot keep it

that is why you cant keep the law
you never pray the prayer you need to pray cause you dont believe it

so you will ever sin as long as you dont believe

believe
do what Jesus said
GO AND SIN NO MORE

that means PRAY and God will send you his spirit and you will keep the law

promise

 

[2Thewaters]

1 Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


that is us
that is me

thank God for the law
it is good



1 Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Tim 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1 Tim 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me,


God ENABLES US TO KEEP THE LAW

that is the gospel
that is the true gospel, he enables us to keep the sabbath and the law

the false gospel is that we cannot keep the law.
read your bible

 

[JaumeJ]

It does not harm to think anything Yeshua teaches is a command, for it certainly is not a suggestion, however those Ten Commandments stand as the Commandments. Yes the two Great Laws of Love cover all the law and commandments, but it is also true if we obey the Ten we also obey the Two. It may take some thinking, meditation, but there is no denying this. If one thinks of the gift of Jesus when He says to believe in Him as another commandment, fine, it is another commandment, but then all He teaches becomes commandment. Wow! There is nothing wrong with that, but those who believe themselves saved, outside the law, are now under the laws of their own creation.

Of course,when we love Yeshua for Who He is, we will continue to obey those Ten Commandments for having recognized Him as our Savior, we have no need for any new commandments other than to love each other as He has loved us. Also, this latter we should do as our new nature obeying those Ten great and wonderful commandments.

 

[2Thewaters]

when a manstealer or liar reads the law
he says
I am lost!
hwe goes to Jesus
asks for forgiveness
and Jesus gives him grace to sin not ever again

and you RECIEVE REPENTANCE recieve a change of life.

now you dont have to recieve it, then you will be lost

but you CAN recieve repentance and change
and you are given the power to do so.

by DIVINE INPIRATION

see
you need to be INSPIRED OF GOD TO KEEP THE LAW

that is what we need

so go get it

inspiration comes by reading the word of God
and praying
and you get strength to keep every commandment


Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.


so dont tell me this garbage that we cannot do it

God expects us to do it

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[BradC]

Thanks K. Another thought, an elaboration that is. When we learn the laws of Yahweh in the light of Grace, and we obey Yeshua, and most of all, we believe Him we find it is easier (joyous actually) to do what Yeshua teaches us to do than to do what the man of the cloth (rabbis, preachers) dictate to their assemblies. Now I have said "man of the cloth." On those rare occasions when a teacher is indeed a man of the spirit, the teachings will be from Yeshua.

If anyone believes I am being too hard on preachers, it is only from learning from our Savior what to expect in these times. He was not wrong, all is just as He foretold us. We who hear Him. Apostasy does indeed abound, and just before the last trump, Yahweh will call His children out of that great whore on seven hills, the mother of whores. Her daughters would be many of the assemblies extant in the last moments of what we now call time. All get ready, be prepared to see our Salvation on a cloud coming down to meet us all in the air. Praise Yeshua, surely He is returning soon, amen.

Please express some of the laws and commandments of the NT since Christ came, was crucified and ascended to the right hand of the Father. What are the laws and commandments of the NT that we are to keep and follow as the church, body and bride of Christ?