Biblical faith what can it really do?

Blain · Nov 19, 2021

So I was asked by someone in church about faith and why we don't see miracles anymore and two other people were with us one answered that it isn't for today the other answered it's because of lack of faith. To be honest I didn't have a real answer and it made me think more on the matter. if we go by scripture alone the case for lack of faith makes sense as there is lot of scripture of what happens when one has faith and what happens because of lack thereof but the only thing I can think of for the case of it being because it isn't for today is the verse
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
King James Version
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. but the stances on this verse rely heavily on two different sides of the word completeness.
I too have wondered why we say we believe in the impossible and that we believe in miracles yet never see it. There does seem to be a famine in these things and if I am being honest God has several times been leadding me to this subject and I wish I knew someone to watch a sermon on or knew how to work in this way to learn more but I don't.
See I have a theory I think just how the devil copies and corrupts everything God does he does the same with faith. The prosperity gospel is one I greatly despise and was the main reason I stayed far away from this subject it is self centered and acts like a steering wheel with our will vs God;s mainly enacting self centered things like money sucess and personal prosperity.

But there is a part of me that can't help but feel that solid faith and miracles seeing God's hand move in amazing ways... there is just an itch I cannot scratch something I need to dig deeper and see for myself. Not for things like money or self centered things but actual faith not just saying we believe in the impossible but seeing it in action simply because we had the faith to believe to see the hand of God move in ways we thought were gone which in essence is what faith is supposed to be yet few actually seem to see them relating them to pentecostal or the propserity gospel or just saying it just wasn't his will but what if it was we just didn't give him the faith required?
What do you all think? and if anyone can help me in this area I would greatly appreciate it

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Jon-E · Nov 20, 2021

Blain said:

Hi Blain! I approach this question by studying the purpose of miracles as indicated in the Bible. I see the reasons are progressively seen through the Scriptures. I'll quote a few passages that give me the answer why we don't see true miracles in this day.

"And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail: (and he put forth his hand, and laid hold of it, and it became a rod in his hand

that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous, as white as snow. And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. (And he put his hand into his bosom again; and when he took it out of his bosom, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh.) And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign, that they will believe the voice of the latter sign. And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe even these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land." (Exod 4:1-9, ERV)

"And the LORD hearkened unto the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth. And the woman said to Elijah, Now I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth."(1Kgs 17:22-24, ERV)

"And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word by the signs that followed. Amen." (Mark 16:20, ERV)
seen in comparison to the following
"how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation? which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard; God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders, and by manifold powers, and by gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." (Heb 2:3-4, ERV)

"And he called unto him his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely ye received, freely give." (Matt 10:1-8, ERV)

Then the Apostle Paul claimed for himself these same gifts (gave them); in the following:

"Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, by signs and wonders and mighty works." (2Cor 12:12, ERV)

Paul performed the ultimate sort of miracle, raising the dead; something these present day frauds claiming to have these gifts can't do!

"And there sat in the window a certain young man named Eutychus, borne down with deep sleep; and as Paul discoursed yet longer, being borne down by his sleep he fell down from the third story, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Make ye no ado; for his life is in him." (Acts 20:9-10, ERV)

For me, these confirming and sign miracles ended once the New Testament canon was completed and the church established. The miracles authenticate the man as being of God and that his message is from God.

There is an excellent book by B. B. Warfield(research who he is online) called "Counterfeit Miracles". It is available to be read online at the following link:

https://www.monergism.com/14-free-ebooks-b-b-warfield

The book I refer to is 2nd to the last in the list among many great books he'd written.

Yahshua · Nov 20, 2021

Without faith is impossible to please Him, ...so if faith is waning then the Almighty is displeased more and more. In fact, He refused to allow any of those first generation Israelites (with exceptions) to see the promised land because they refused to have faith in Him. He considered it "treating [Him] with contempt".

This entire walk is about growing in faith in Him, ...so if that's not happening in believers they're wasting their time.

Scripture said faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence is things not seen. In scripture, the word translated as substance means "means, resources, wealth (in terms of paying for things one needs to live)". We know what evidence means: proof.

So faith is heaven's money as well as the receipt for things we hope for but don't yet see. It's the "treasure" we're told to store up in heaven instead of treasure on earth.

It's the economy of heaven established by two or more who agree...just like with physical money down here which needs two or more witnesses to establish anything traded as "money". This is why the Messiah couldn't do many miracles in certain towns. Scripture says the people in those towns lacked faith.

The last word we say at the end of prayers is at the heart of the process of activating our faith. "Amen." It means "so be it; and so it is; it is true; it is done". If you notice, these phrases are very close to the meaning of the name of Yah: "He is who is."

Yah has, does, and will always exist because of absolute faith in Himself.
He is because He KNOWS He is.
He is The Amen.

When we say that word we are stating as fact that what we just asked for has already been given because He is; that it is aleady true because He is...it's just a matter of time catching up to this truth.

"When you pray, believe that you have received (past tense) it and it is yours...so that my Father may be glorified...pray and do not doubt".

These are the Messiah's words.

jb · Nov 20, 2021

Jon-E said:

Pure fantasy from an evil heart of unbelief!

JaumeJ · Nov 20, 2021

Because I have experienced a miracle or two, I know in faith miracles happen everywhere and every day.

When I am told of a miraqcle from anyone, I believe it until God convinces me otherwise, and so far all have been left as they were presented me, true.

Anyone who has not witnesse a miracle or miraculous work from the Father, wait in faith, you will.

Vindicator · Nov 20, 2021

Jon-E said:

Greetings, Jon.

My trouble with this argument is that it assumes God will never again desire to confirm His word to the world, not now and not in the end-times. This seems to be in conflict with Joel 2:28-31, which despite some claiming has already been fulfilled actually hasn't, unless you spiritualize v.31 to mean something other than what it says literally.

Blain said:

Greetings, Blain.

Keep asking God to reveal things to you. It is more than just faith actually, though faith is essential on the part of His people. But the problem in our day and age is that few are giving themselves to intensive prayer and fasting for the greater gifts. There is a price to be paid, and most of us just want to enjoy our comfortable way of life.

But there are still things happening here and there. You just have to have your ears open to it.

p_rehbein · Nov 20, 2021

Blain said:

Miracles occur every day. The blind do not see them. The faithful believers see them. Pretty simple actually.

Problem arises when people ONLY want to see miracles they want to see.....

Miracles come in all sizes, shapes and appearances.

FAITH CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS.......

It isn't that miracles do not happen anymore, its that the faith of many has waned........

I have seen and experienced miracles in my lifetime.

studentoftheword · Nov 20, 2021

Blain ----you bring up a good subject --Faith ----very --very few people including Ministers and Clergy have any idea how powerful Faith is -----

My view on this

there are 3 types of Faith ---God gives all Faith ------James 2 describes these Faiths

And this is a good read on them as well as it gives the scripture as well

https://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/ja/ja_10.htm

Intellectual Faith ----this faith is given to us at birth --it is a faith that relies on our 5 senses -----it is a Non Producing Faith cause we already see what we believe in ----you have faith in the chair you see to sit in that it will hold you ---you have faith in your Dr to heal you ---you have faith in the pill you take will make you better ----

Demonic Faith ----Demons had Faith they believe that Jesus was the Messiah and He had authority over them --again this is a Non Producing faith ----as it is an Emotional Faith --the demons tremble and are terrified of God

Then there is God's Faith ----or God kind of Faith ----Or Dynamic Faith ------This Faith Produces ----

John 1
King James Version
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

-John 1 ---The WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us --

God the Father spoke Faith Filled Words ---The Word is Jesus and created what His Father said -----God said ---let there be light and light became --God created this earth by speaking Faith words ------we are made in God's image so when we speak faith Words we can create what we speak -----

The Bible has written words Logos ---but then it contains the spoken word Rhema ----which creates

God's Faith comes from Hearing the Word of God -----when Jesus preached the word many had their hearts open to receive the word of Faith -----

Faith is a substance ---that manifests your hope into the seen realm ----

Greek word for substance

HELPS Word-studies
5287 hypóstasis (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – properly, (to possess) standing under a guaranteed agreement ("title-deed"); (

figuratively) "title" to a promise or property, i.e. a legitimate claim (because it literally is, "under a legal-standing") – entitling someone to what is guaranteed under the particular agreement.

For the believer, 5287 /hypóstasis ("title of possession") is the Lord's guarantee to fulfill the faith He inbirths (cf. Heb 11:1 with Heb 11:6). Indeed we are only entitled to what God grants faith for (Ro 14:23).

Your Faith and Trust-- in the Word ---who is Jesus ---can move a bad situation out of your way ------

Matthew 17:20

New International Version
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you

I say
The Disciples were able to cast out demons --heal the sick etc ----because they has faith and trust in Jesus who gave them the power to do so by telling them they could do what He said -----

Miracles happened because the Disciples had the right Faith in Jesus who gives us the ability to do the Miracles ----Our Faith comes from Jesus who is the Word ---the more you believe and trust the Word --who is Jesus the stronger your Faith will become ----

I believe people do not associate the Faith Word with Jesus and they just think that Faith is just a belief of some type by itself -----Right Faith is always connected to Jesus -----who is the Word ----

I believe Miracles do happen today but are rare do to lack of Faith in the one person who can give us the ability to do them who is Jesus ----

Blik · Nov 21, 2021

If faith in Christ means that we have faith in all Christ tells us and live with those things of Christ in our hearts so that they result in our actions, then a lot of us is missing the mark of faith.

We would need to take Christ with us when we shop, so we would not use our credit card as that is borrowing and we are told not to. If there is a choice between food for the hungry and that wonderful garment, we would choose to feed the hungry. When someone insults us or we were snubbed we would spend no time thinking of how to get even or standing up for our rights but make a special effort to be friendly with them.

Faith in the kingdom of heaven and all its ways so strong we act on it is a very difficult thing to do and as scripture tells us, many fail at it.

soberxp · Nov 21, 2021

Miracles doesn't help us learning word of God.
If God showed miracle to someone never read Bible,It doesn't help anyway.
If God showed miracle to someone hardened and the truth has no chance of entering.
Miracle is not word of God, only Almighty.

JaumeJ · Nov 21, 2021

soberxp said:

I like the word work in reference to His using His servants. But this is not to be taken as some kind of doctrine, just my liking....

Blik · Nov 21, 2021

When we accept Christ in our life with faith in Him, we change our very being. As humans, our home and world is the world, now our true home is in heaven. Our life in the world is only a temporary one, soon over and then we die of our sin. Our life in Christ is an eternal life, the true life that we were to have until Adam and Eve brought on death.

When we are born again in Christ we are living with the true life, not the temporary life.

Charlie24 · Nov 21, 2021

Blain said:

In some of the Pentecostal circles "when that which is perfect is come" is referring to the resurrection when man is made complete and the world we know today is no longer. Meaning that all the gifts of healing, tongues, etc. still exists.

The opposite to this is that "when that which is perfect is come" is referring to the complete cannon of scripture being available to all believers. Meaning the tongues, miraculous healings of Jesus and the apostle have for the most part ended and we are to live by faith.

One of the points to this is that one of Paul's helpers in the Gospel (would have to look up his name) became sick and nearly died, Paul was not able to bring forth healing for this man but was at the mercy of God through prayer.

In other words, these gifts that Paul taught would slowly begin "to cease" as the scripture became widespread.

I've always been caught in the middle so to speak. Not wanting to deny anything the Lord wants me to have, but at the same time realizing I have His complete Word on all things and I am called by faith, not by sight.

So take your pick, I think you will find that no matter how much faith you have, some things are not the will of God, serving a purpose, and all your faith and desire for a miracle is just not going to happen.

Pilgrimshope · Nov 21, 2021

Blain said:

I think the subject of faith is a really important one . And also a term that’s very misunderstood in popular ideas.

faith is rooted always and forever in what God said was going to happen before it happens for instance

he told Noah “ I’m going to flood the earth and destroy all mankind , but you Noah build an ark and I will save you and your house and make a new covenant with you “

Noah simply believed what God told him so Noah found himself building an ark like God said and he was saved from what God said was coming he had faith believing Gods word before he could see any proof all He had was “God said it “ and all he did was believe it was true

in Noah’s mind the earth was about to flood so building an ark designed by God was a natural response to what he believed

many feel faith is to believe God exists and that’s faith , but faith actually comes when you here what he said and believe it

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith tells us what Jesus said is true so for instance faith tells us the world is going to end , that Jesus will return on the last day and gather his elect people his followers of all nations , he told us about his eternal heavenly kingdom that is after our death in this world . He told us of forgiveness of sins , taught us of righteousness and salvation told us about remission of sins and our election as children of God

the things Jesus said in the gospel are faith they are the bricks that build faith we must hear and believe Gods word to have faith . If we believe God exists but reject his words were condemning ourself by rejecting the faith of the gospel that saves

it’s a miracle that people who are going to die , are yet going to live forever . The gospel is made of miraculous promises made by God faith is when we start believing what he said and following where the faith leads so we start walking by faith in the word of God

Blain · Nov 21, 2021

I appreciate everyones responses, though I have never seen or recieved a miracle I have always believed in them and I believe it only takes one prayer to change everything even though most of my prayers seem to fall on deaf ears I can pray for someone but rarely does my prayer ever change their situation I can ask for healing for myself or others but never once has healing happened and yet I still believe in these things I don't think God changes and as far as whether or not it is for today personally I think it still is in fact I think considering how close we are to the end of the end times the final seven years it has never been more for today.
I mean lets be honest we live in an unbelieving world few can think of miracles as a real thing especially those in the world but yes even other believers.

Anytime they are testified of the first initial thought in most peoples minds is skepticism ,many feign miracles and others who do see real miracles are met with skepticism. And you know a little testimony from me in this matter it is true I have never seen a real miracle but a few times I have spoken for something to happen hearing an inner voice say test me in these things and I did and they actually happened just as I said they would as if they were spoken into happening

Even as I was writing this thread speaking on miracles a song came on speaking about how miracles are still for today and to believe I mean if that isn't GGod's voice I don't know what is. And I have to admit just thinking about growing in this area with God watching as his hand moves seeing my faith grow firm as iron being able to see a horrible or impossible situation and just having my arms out stepping back saying whatch what my God can do.... it makes my spirit jump inside me oh how it excites me to be able to praise the God of impossible to say to the world the God of jacob lives and here is my proof I just feel a stirring something drawing me to this area and I want to explore it to test the waters i just don't know how to get started

Magenta · Nov 21, 2021

Blik said:

God changes us.

GRACE_ambassador · Nov 21, 2021

Blain said:

Precious friend, Blain. You are not alone in your wondering this. I remember well
in my growth as a babe In Christ, the Very Same things. Promising myself I would
study deep into the matter of tongues, healings, miracles, word of knowledge,
And the gift of prophecy. It was about 11 years, but The Wonderful LORD Himself
"Led me" To HIS Answer. I will pray for you as well, as you begin This Important
journey, finding Exactly "What God Is DOING Today, Under GRACE, And Also:

HOW our faith And Submission To HIS LORDSHIP, And fellowship With HIM,
do fit into this Important Program Of "HIS Revelation Of HIS MYSTERY!"

Amen?:

3 gifts Superseded By THREE Gifts
GRACE Word for infirmities

Blain said:

Precious friend:

IF I may suggest to start here, and, ask as MANY questions as you Want To, because
God Has ANSWERED ALL of mine on ALL of the Confusion about this Very Subject:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

Sincerely yours, Blain, my Precious Friend,

Brother Chris

Jon-E · Nov 22, 2021

Vindicator said:

Hello Vindicator,

You wrote "This seems to be in conflict with Joel 2:28-31, which despite some claiming has already been fulfilled actually hasn't, unless you spiritualize v.31 to mean something other than what it says literally."

It seems you are sure v31 refers to the judgement at the last day and think any other view is to "spiritualize". I am convinced this was not about the last day, but the judgment at 70 AD on the Christ rejecting Jews as the temple was destroyed. I do not know reasons you have for thinking this is the last day; but, here are my reasons for thinking it refers to 70 AD and I interpret 'literally'.

The exact literal phrase in question is "the great and terrible day of the LORD" as found in Joel 2:31; yet that exact phrase is used only twice in the Bible, in the OT, and I'll give the other place it is found:

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Mal 4:5-6, ERV)

Earlier it is written:
"Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in, behold, he cometh, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver; and they shall offer unto the LORD offerings in righteousness." (Mal 3:1-3, ERV)

The name Elijah is speaking of John the Baptist: Matt. 11:13-14 and Luke 1:17.

The timing of the great and terrible day of the LORD is tied to the presence of John the Baptist. Yet in Mal. 3:1-3 Christ's coming is described also as judgment upon the Jews. I do not spiritualize this and project it to be referring to a judgment over 2400 years distant from the writing when the clear indication is that this syncs with Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21; which details the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the timing is specific to the destruction of the temple: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished." (Matt 24:34, ERV) For those weak in grammar, "this generation" refers to those to whom He was speaking and no translation renders this "race":

"Truly I tell you: the present generation will live to see it all." (Matt 24:34, REB)

The passage in Joel in question in full reads:

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as the LORD hath said, and among the remnant those whom the LORD doth call." (Joel 2:31-32, ERV)

The metaphoric language, apocalyptical language about sun and moon, this sort of language is also used in Matt. 24:29 and this is typical language for judgment as used in the OT in other places.

Also, in this Joel passage about the "escape" it is again referenced in Matt. 24 -

"And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath: for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be." (Matt 24:20-21, ERV

The phrase "no, nor ever shall be" indicates that their is more time to come after the judgment, so it must refer to 70 AD. After the last day at the 2nd coming, we go into eternity not more time. Then we have the prophecy Jesus gave "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the earth as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come." (Matt 24:14, REB) This was fulfilled completely before 70 AD as recorded in Col. 1:23 and Rom. 1:8

My last reason I'll list is the fact that Joel was addressing Jews about Jews. This is clear in v28 " I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters", the sons and daughters will be Jews, and the "all flesh" must mean all types and stations of Jews.

In Acts chapter 2, Peter also is addressing the Jews applying this to Jews alone because he never considered Gentiles until Acts chapter 10 and he was shocked even at that.

Vindicator · Nov 22, 2021

Jon-E said:

And with this you just spiritualized v.31.

As I was arguing, it is necessary for such an interpretation to carry any weight, since nothing of this sort happened literally in A.D. 70.

I could address the rest, but suffice it to say here that you are doing what many have to do in order to interpret the passage as no longer valid today.

Jon-E · Nov 22, 2021

Vindicator said:

You must be a typical dispensationalist, reading the literal passages as figurative, and reading the figurative passages as literal. I grew up in that heresy, so I know it well.

Jesus said his signs he gave in Matt. 24 were definitely in that present generation to whom he was speaking.

Biblical faith what can it really do?

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