Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD

[Jhana]

Tintin means to say what does it matter if you believe there is no God. I tend to agree with him. We Christians are obligated to do the things which we believe is God's will. You are obligated to be a better person based on..what exactly? Hedonism?

You tell me, did you wake up one day and say 'I think it would be a really good idea to rape that girl next door' and then look at your bible and say 'no, actually, best not'?

It doesn't take a genius to work out that some things are wrong. for instance, the screams and cries of 'please, no', would probably be a good indicator of most of the major ones.

Then we get onto other things, finer details, we start thinking about right and wrong.

I don't even need to have a bible in front of me to know that everything Jesus did was based on a SELFLESS compassion. He went round with an attitude of 'help other people', 'give freely', 'ease suffering', and learn to find your own peace of mind while you're at it.

If a person thinks about it, what's the thing we all go through? Heartaches, despairs, pains, anguish, grief. Alleviate them, then, and don't do something to cause them. What's more simple than that?

 

[PennEd]

PennEd, I've not got anything to be 'held accountable' for anymore than the next person.

You do wrongs. I do wrongs. You have feelings? I have feelings. You read philosophy, you seek purpose, you want fulfillment, you desire peace, you see compassion as a better road than another. I am the same as that.

Do you want to know what the only difference is, PennEd? Life, the Earth, and the people in it, matter to me for a reason other than getting a little slice of heaven. They matter because they are me, and I am them. They do wrongs. They have feelings. They desire purpose, the seek fulfillment, they have hearts made to want compassion in their deepest depths nomatter what life has led them to.

Every little bit of it matters.

Assumption after assumption from you. But I've already told you, I never said there was no God.

Everything you just wrote is an indictment against evolution. If you indeed do believe in God, then where do you get your beliefs about what His nature is and His purpose in creating you?

 

[Tintin]

because i dont need anything to tell me that making someone else happy, makes me happy. I realized that before I was saved. I realized a difference of right and wrong before I started going to church. I formed my own morality, without any sort of religious guidelines in my life. It's not hard. It's not like atheists are just a bunch of crazy murderhobos. Do you really need scripture and a God to let you know that killing, stealing, abuse, rape, and all that is wrong? If you can't figure that out on your own, you probably dont need to be associating with normal society.

You live in the US, a society founded on Judeo/Christian values. Not all societies have such a blessing.

 

[Jhana]

Everything you just wrote is an indictment against evolution. If you indeed do believe in God, then where do you get your beliefs about what His nature is and His purpose in creating you?

PennEd, I'm not getting into a biblical, scriptural, doctrinal (and eventually dogmatic) argument with a fundamentalist christian, because to be quite frank with you, it will drain every drop of joy from my bones.

But suffice to say, having a spiritual or moral ideal and viewing others as they are me, isn't actually that difficult. Spiritual words don't have to be in dualism with an understanding of evolution. Taking evolutionary evidence with merit doesn't negate my ability to think in terms of empathy. If anything, the idea of having such a close bond with the planet only serves to heighten the ability.

 

[Tintin]

You tell me, did you wake up one day and say 'I think it would be a really good idea to rape that girl next door' and then look at your bible and say 'no, actually, best not'?

It doesn't take a genius to work out that some things are wrong. for instance, the screams and cries of 'please, no', would probably be a good indicator of most of the major ones.

Then we get onto other things, finer details, we start thinking about right and wrong.

I don't even need to have a bible in front of me to know that everything Jesus did was based on a SELFLESS compassion. He went round with an attitude of 'help other people', 'give freely', 'ease suffering', and learn to find your own peace of mind while you're at it.

If a person thinks about it, what's the thing we all go through? Heartaches, despairs, pains, anguish, grief. Alleviate them, then, and don't do something to cause them. What's more simple than that?

No, I don't see these anywhere in my Bible. Christ was and is first and foremost about love, but not our definition of love. God is Love, defines love. But His love must be informed by His truth. Christ was compassionate but He also wasn't afraid to speak the truth. The way some people paint Him, you'd think He was nothing more than a walking-mat, hippy prophet! Christ talked about suffering being a reality in the lives of all and that believing and trusting in God was paramount. He wasn't about peace of mind, but bringing hope and salvation to the lost. For every good thing, He pointed back to God the Father. Christianity is more than some feel-good meditation technique. So much more.

 

[Jhana]

You live in the US, a society founded on Judeo/Christian values. Not all societies have such a blessing.

'Stone the adulteress' vs 'thou shalt not kill'. Judaistic values aren't exactly set in stone for all intents and purposes, are they?

2000 years ago Jesus was in Israel stopping a stoning of a woman, while the monks in Nepal were feeding villages and praying eight hours a day.

Judaistic Israel isn't the only geographic with any moral merit. And while we're at it, wasn't crusades England a society founded on 'Judeo/christian values'?

How many did they slaughter?

 

[danschance]

Moral laws are useless to evolution. The only alleged laws acceptable to evolution is "survival of the fittest".

I have heard people claim the reason why men have carnal desires is to spread or genetic codes. Which invalidates monogamy. Evolution has no need for morality and fornication and adultery are useless concepts in evolution.

 

[Jhana]

Moral laws are useless to evolution. The only alleged laws acceptable to evolution is "survival of the fittest".

I have heard people claim the reason why men have carnal desires is to spread or genetic codes. Which invalidates monogamy. Evolution has no need for morality and fornication and adultery are useless concepts in evolution.

Since when?

Have you ever been cheated on by a spouse? How did it feel? Did you wish she'd stayed?

Humans are programmed to fall in love.

 

[Tintin]

Since when?

Have you ever been cheated on by a spouse? How did it feel? Did you wish she'd stayed?

Humans are programmed to fall in love.

Yes, but by admitting that humans need to be "programmed" to fall in love, you're suggesting there need to be a designer. Nature can't just program itself without any outside help.

 

[PennEd]

PennEd, I'm not getting into a biblical, scriptural, doctrinal (and eventually dogmatic) argument with a fundamentalist christian, because to be quite frank with you, it will drain every drop of joy from my bones.

But suffice to say, having a spiritual or moral ideal and viewing others as they are me, isn't actually that difficult. Spiritual words don't have to be in dualism with an understanding of evolution. Taking evolutionary evidence with merit doesn't negate my ability to think in terms of empathy. If anything, the idea of having such a close bond with the planet only serves to heighten the ability.

Jhana, you actually made me laugh out loud!

How shocking!!! Imagine the horror of talking about Spiritual beliefs on a Christian chat site!

Cmon guy? Your'e not gonna tell me that the avatar mother tree thing is your god?

Listen, I honestly pray you would stay on this site (you MUST be here because you like hanging out with Christians or want to attempt to insult us) till we reach you.

 

[Jhana]

Jhana, you actually made me laugh out loud!

How shocking!!! Imagine the horror of talking about Spiritual beliefs on a Christian chat site!

Cmon guy? Your'e not gonna tell me that the avatar mother tree thing is your god?

Listen, I honestly pray you would stay on this site (you MUST be here because you like hanging out with Christians or want to attempt to insult us) till we reach you.

No it isn't lol. Honestly, PennEd, it'll go like this;

PennEd quote's script with interpretation.

Jhana replies with scriptural argument.

x4 or 5

Then ..

PennEd says one thing, Jhana says the other.

Someone gets annoyed.

Someone else gets involved.

The eventual comment arises 'a non-christian has no authority to talk about script' ..

The odds stack and I have a mob on me ..

Then I get banned and everyone goes to bed annoyed.

Pointless.

 

[Fishbait]

Did God say, "Thou shall not kill"? In Exodus 20:13 we have the Fifth Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Take a good look at that word “Kill”. In the Hebrew Manuscript the word is “Ratsach” which means: Murder; ie - to Murder, a Murderer; to dash to pieces. Thus, Exodus 20:13 Actually reads “Thou Shalt Not MURDER”. Next, look to Exodus 21:12 “He that smiteth a man so that he die, shall be surely put to death”. Here, the Hebrew word translated ‘Smiteth’ is “Nakah”, which means: Murder, To Slay, to make slaughter. Thus, Exodus 21:12 Actually reads “He that Murders a man so that he die, shall be surely put to death”.

Next, look to Exodus 21:14 “But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die”. The Hebrew word translated ‘Slay’ here is “Harag”, which means: To Smite with Deadly Intent; To Murder. The Hebrew word translated ‘Guile’ here is “Ormah”, which means: Trickery, Craftiness; Deceitful Strategy. Thus, Exodus 21:14 Actually “But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor to Murder him with a Deceitful Strategy; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die”.

Now move over to Deuteronomy 19:11 + 12 “But if any man hate his neighbor, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and Smite him mortally that he die, and flee into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the Avenger of Blood, that he may die”. Again, the Hebrew word translated ‘Smite’ here is “Nakah”, which means: Murder, To Slay, to make slaughter. But what is this ‘Avenger of Blood’? The Hebrew word translated ‘Avenger’ here is “Ga'al”, which means: To Redeem (According to the Ancient Law of Kinship) The Next of Kin, Kinsfolk; To Redeem Blood for Blood: ie - Revenge - The Kinsman Redeemer. So, the Murderer was to be put to death by the Nearest of Kin! But what if the death was an accident? Deuteronomy 19:2 thru 6 tells what to do with those who kill by mistake; by accident. They were to be moved away to a far off city, thereby giving the relatives of the one accidentally killed time to cool off, and to not seek revenge.

Thus you will see again and again, when the Old Testament speaks of Kill, it many times actually says ‘MURDER”, and that the Murderers were to be put to death.

 

[PennEd]

No it isn't lol. Honestly, PennEd, it'll go like this;

PennEd quote's script with interpretation.

Jhana replies with scriptural argument.

x4 or 5

Then ..

PennEd says one thing, Jhana says the other.

Someone gets annoyed.

Someone else gets involved.

The eventual comment arises 'a non-christian has no authority to talk about script' ..

The odds stack and I have a mob on me ..

Then I get banned and everyone goes to bed annoyed.

Pointless.

You just described the evolution vs creation debate!

 

[Jhana]

Did God say, "Thou shall not kill"? In Exodus 20:13 we have the Fifth Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Take a good look at that word “Kill”. In the Hebrew Manuscript the word is “Ratsach” which means: Murder; ie - to Murder, a Murderer; to dash to pieces. Thus, Exodus 20:13 Actually reads “Thou Shalt Not MURDER”. Next, look to Exodus 21:12 “He that smiteth a man so that he die, shall be surely put to death”. Here, the Hebrew word translated ‘Smiteth’ is “Nakah”, which means: Murder, To Slay, to make slaughter. Thus, Exodus 21:12 Actually reads “He that Murders a man so that he die, shall be surely put to death”.

Next, look to Exodus 21:14 “But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die”. The Hebrew word translated ‘Slay’ here is “Harag”, which means: To Smite with Deadly Intent; To Murder. The Hebrew word translated ‘Guile’ here is “Ormah”, which means: Trickery, Craftiness; Deceitful Strategy. Thus, Exodus 21:14 Actually “But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbor to Murder him with a Deceitful Strategy; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die”.

Now move over to Deuteronomy 19:11 + 12 “But if any man hate his neighbor, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and Smite him mortally that he die, and flee into one of these cities: Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the Avenger of Blood, that he may die”. Again, the Hebrew word translated ‘Smite’ here is “Nakah”, which means: Murder, To Slay, to make slaughter. But what is this ‘Avenger of Blood’? The Hebrew word translated ‘Avenger’ here is “Ga'al”, which means: To Redeem (According to the Ancient Law of Kinship) The Next of Kin, Kinsfolk; To Redeem Blood for Blood: ie - Revenge - The Kinsman Redeemer. So, the Murderer was to be put to death by the Nearest of Kin! But what if the death was an accident? Deuteronomy 19:2 thru 6 tells what to do with those who kill by mistake; by accident. They were to be moved away to a far off city, thereby giving the relatives of the one accidentally killed time to cool off, and to not seek revenge.

Thus you will see again and again, when the Old Testament speaks of Kill, it many times actually says ‘MURDER”, and that the Murderers were to be put to death.

I guess that clears it up then, killing is ok if you have the mob's consent!

 

[Jhana]

Yes, but by admitting that humans need to be "programmed" to fall in love, you're suggesting there need to be a designer. Nature can't just program itself without any outside help.

Yea perhaps I am. But the point is, manogamy is around because of more than the bible. People were getting together and staying together long before the old testament. Hindus were doing it thousands of years before.

 

[Bowman]

Pasting-in a web page as a reply, Angela...?

Come on...

Wrong Bowman!

An Overview of Day-Age's Errors

by Larry Vardiman, Ph.D. * Chair of the Department of Astro/Geophysics.

Many Bible scholars today are buying into the day-age theory of origins. They seem to believe that their biblical views must conform to their mental image of how the world functions today and must be confirmed by members of the non-Christian world, whose minds are darkened (Ephesians 4:17-19).
The basis of the day-age interpretation of long ages rests on a flawed understanding of the use of the word yom in Genesis 1 and 2. Here, I will discuss briefly the theory's five main errors.
A Day Is a Day
The claim that yom is a long but finite time period is based on the assertion that yommeans "age" in Genesis 2:4. However, in the Hebrew Old Testament yom normally means either a 24-hour day, or the daylight portion of a 24-hour day ("day" as distinct from "night"). It may occasionally be used for an indefinite time (e.g., "days of the judges"), but never as a definite long period of time with a specific beginning and ending.
It is not used even in this indefinite sense except when the context clearly indicates that the literal meaning is not intended. When ordinals or the phrase "evening and morning" are connected with yom, it always means a solar day. The context of the six days of creation account in Genesis 1 precludes any meaning of indefinite time.

Yawm is the only word in Biblical Hebrew which could have been used to express epochs of time.

The Hebrew day began and ended in the evening....thus, for each creation 'day' to be suffixed with....'and there was evening and there was morning' would mean 12hrs (NOT 24hrs!) for the YEC!

Time to reassess your position...

God Rested
Day-agers say that since "morning and evening" are not listed for the seventh day, the sabbath must still be continuing. If it has continued for thousands--maybe millions--of years, it can't be a solar day. However, Scripture does not say, "He is resting on the seventh day," but, rather, "He rested on the seventh day" (Genesis 2:2).
Though His work of creation was finished, He very soon undertook the great work of redemption (John 4:34; 5:17; etc.). That work was finished (John 17:4) when the Son of God on the cross shouted the mighty cry of victory: "It is finished!" The six days of creation and the seventh day of rest were a unique set of solar days at the beginning of earth history.

That we are still in the seventh day, and that it has NOT been closed-out like the previous six, is proclaimed in scripture.

The seventh day has to be a Guinness world record for the longest 24 hr day in history.

A Thousand-Year Day
Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 state that a day is like a thousand years to God. This is used by some to suggest that yom in Genesis 1 may be thousands, millions, or even billions of years long. This phrase actually depicts God's view of time, which He created on the first day of creation, along with mass and space. Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." A better translation of this verse would be, "The transcendent, omnipotent Godhead created (from nothing) mass, space, and time."
The very name for God is I AM THAT I AM (Exodus 3:14). God exists simultaneously in the past, present, and future. He is outside of time. The purpose of this phrase in Psalm 90 and 2 Peter is not as a definition of yom, but as a characterization of God.

Why do YEC's insist on using 'a day is as a 1,000 years' scripture against OEC's?

This fits much better with a 6Kyr (6 x 1,000 years) YEC interpretation....NOT a Billions-of-year-old earth OEC stance.

Further, 'God's view of time' is earth-time in Gen 1, as the narrative is from the vantage point of the earth's surface, as established in Gen 1.2.

Come on...

Normal Processes Did Not Apply
Some argue that the maturing of plants would take much longer than a day, therefore the third day couldn't have been 24 hours. This argument shows an extreme lack of appreciation for what God did during creation. He created everything from nothing by His word. Why would it not be possible for God to create mature plants, animals, and man on the various days of creation?
God was not bound by normal processes during the creation events. In fact, creation was a miracle of the first magnitude. God spoke and the universe came into existence. God spoke and mature plants and animals were formed. God spoke and mankind was created. This argument is not worthy of dispute.

By this lame reasoning then why not create in 1 nanosecond?!

Why take a full '24 hr' day...?

Your God is Too Small
The claim that the events that took place on the sixth day of creation could not have occurred within a 24-hour solar day are refuted by arguments similar to those given above for the fourth error. Day-agers' view of God is too small.

An Overview of Day-Age's Errors

Again...By this lame reasoning then why not create in 1 nanosecond?!

Why take a full '24 hr' day...?

Sorry I wasn't around earlier to refute your nonsense. I had to spend some time with my family!

Slavishly posting a website as a reply is hardly 'refuting' anything.

I expected more from you, sister...

 

[Bowman]

Good link, Angela!

Bowman, if your Day-Age theory proposes otherwise, please link to a specific explanation or describe it in your own words so we know where you're coming from. Because where I'm coming from, that's the only form of the Day-Age theory of which I know. Thanks.

You can research the 'day-age' position at your leisure, brother.

Stooping to Angela's level and replying with a webpage is NOT discussing or refuting anything.

I have studied the YEC, OEC, Day-age and framework hypothesis for the past decade and the day-age simply has the most evidence going for it. Period.

An ancient Earth does NOT mean evolution, brother.....so no need to worry about that.

 

[megaman125]

Do you want to know what the only difference is, PennEd? Life, the Earth, and the people in it, matter to me for a reason other than getting a little slice of heaven.

If you knew anything about the Christian faith you'd know that evangelizing others or "converting" others doesn't get you into heaven or get you any more than the next guy over.

Assumption after assumption from you. But I've already told you, I never said there was no God.

You keep saying, "I never said there was no God," and getting mad at people for categorizing you as an atheist, but all you've done is tell us what your view isn't instead of what your view is. So how about you clear the air and tell us what god or gods your believe in? Are you a Hindu, Muslim, Deist, something else? Please clear the air and clarify this for everyone. It would certainly be a lot more productive and beneficial than just hounding on someone everytime they categorize you as an atheist and responding with an unhelpful "I never said there was no God," snide remark.

 

[Bowman]

Chapter and verse, please.

Nowhere in Scripture is vegetation documented as dying or capable of death.
It can only "wither".
Inference: vegetation is not "alive". Has no soul.
It's a complex, self-regenerating source of food and oxygen,
but it cannot experience "death". It is no more alive than fire.

Plants and animals both died before Adam & Eve.

Come on...

 

[Angela53510]

Bowman, there isn't a lot of point spending time trying to discuss anything with you, because you have so many weird and twisted interpretations of scripture. I'm not wasting my time discussing the meaning of Yom, you will have to be content with a copy and paste. If you don't like it, it is not something I am going to worry about.

As for Jhana, I am praying you will come to know Jesus Christ, and understand the truth about salvation and the truth of the Bible.