Romans 7:9-24 More than one verse but it will have to suffice.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Building upon a lie
- Thread starter InSpiritInTruth
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For the cause of Christ
Roger
Again, you're asking the wrong guy.....
Wait..... that's not it. Here it is......
How could I mess that up? Maybe I'll get it right this time.....
THAT'S IT!!! Boy, it's hard to get that right, when there's so many to choose from.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
John Had a few churches and was leader of these Churches. He was not saying if they were saved they would have stayed with us. He was teaching doctrine and truth. There are many believers, who are saved, who would leave a doctrinal church for their religion and ritual.
Lets just say that John was teaching loss of salvation and works for salvation. I would leave, I would not be a part of that. But I am still saved.
Lets say he was teaching eternal security and we can add NOTHING to that salvation. Many believers would leave, and have nothing to do with that. But they are still saved.
Most believers are going to leave a doctrinal, truth teaching church. They prefer the religion,people relationships and comfortable,self satisfying ritual. And this is why people were leaving John's churches. Doesn't mean they are not saved though.
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
Hebrews 10:29 is stating this fact that all man-kind has been set apart or sanctified for the gospel of Christ.
But he first said it was to the Jews....
When questioned....
Originally Posted by Stephen63
Since there's no Book to the Gentiles, does that mean we don't have to read or keep any of it?
Grace 777 then responds....
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
Gee..I wonder why they call the book Hebrews????
But here it is now twisted back to refer all mankind now....
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
Hebrews 10:29 is stating this fact that all man-kind has been set apart or sanctified for the gospel of Christ.
Mr. Twister sure flippy flops back and forth to uphold that false doctrine don't he?
The fervent effectual working of the Holy Spirit in you is how you sin less.
We have the presence of the Holy Spirit not speak in tongues but to know and be known of God. to be conformed into the image of Christ the Son of God.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We have the presence of the Holy Spirit not speak in tongues but to know and be known of God. to be conformed into the image of Christ the Son of God.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Eternallife
Guest
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Again, you're asking the wrong guy.....
Wait..... that's not it. Here it is......
How could I mess that up? Maybe I'll get it right this time.....
THAT'S IT!!! Boy, it's hard to get that right, when there's so many to choose from.
You think Jesus has to be crucified again for your future sins? Really?
LOL..I am doing it. I am not interacting with him....that is how I am avoiding his behavior.....just posting scriptures in a thread to reveal this "sinless perfection in the flesh" nonsense so that young Christians are not hit by this "hidden reef" and they get ship-wrecked in their faith in the grace and love of Christ for them.
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But wait....
But you had a cow about the book of Hebrews being for the Jews????
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
Gee..I wonder why they call the book Hebrews????
But wait, you said...
But you said that part of Hebrews is only to those bad Jews right?
Ah so, though you say the book of Hebrews is only for the Jews, you just mean all the warning parts. All the good parts and blessing are for us good Gentile Christian folk. Gotcha! LOL
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
But wait....
But you had a cow about the book of Hebrews being for the Jews????
But wait, you said...
But you said that part of Hebrews is only to those bad Jews right?
Ah so, though you say the book of Hebrews is only for the Jews, you just mean all the warning parts. All the good parts and blessing are for us good Gentile Christian folk. Gotcha! LOL
It's not just for Hebrews, but it was written to Hebrews. And if you make the same mistake as some of them were making by rejecting Gods grace and going back to the Law and their own self efforts to make themselves acceptable to God, then it absolutely applies to you as well.
All scripture is written "for" us but not all scripture is written "to" us. Not knowing the difference brings all kinds of strange doctrines - like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" that some mis-guided souls are trying to proclaim - and if anyone ever sins - they are of the devil and not born of God.
This is not "applying" truth in context with the revealed clear scriptures on the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Paul said to ask that they would pray for him so that boldness would come for him to speak the gospel of the grace of God. Do we do that now? Of course not. Why not? Because he is not speaking to us directly. Can we learn from this?...of course we can.
When Jesus was calling the religious Pharisees "Vipers and snakes"....do we use that to mean He is talking to His disciples too and that they are vipers and snakes too? Of course not. It's spiritual foolishness.
Always look to see in every scripture "who" is being addressed and what are they actually saying in context with the revealed finished work of Christ. Don't take someone else's medicine. It's time to grow up in the Lord.
This is not "applying" truth in context with the revealed clear scriptures on the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Paul said to ask that they would pray for him so that boldness would come for him to speak the gospel of the grace of God. Do we do that now? Of course not. Why not? Because he is not speaking to us directly. Can we learn from this?...of course we can.
When Jesus was calling the religious Pharisees "Vipers and snakes"....do we use that to mean He is talking to His disciples too and that they are vipers and snakes too? Of course not. It's spiritual foolishness.
Always look to see in every scripture "who" is being addressed and what are they actually saying in context with the revealed finished work of Christ. Don't take someone else's medicine. It's time to grow up in the Lord.
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H
heavenly_bound
Guest
So..... you're saying that 2000 years of church hasn't caught up with biblical reality? That's a boisterous statement even for a group of Hypergracers.
So we need to catch up with you? I've read your posts..... my 7 year old granddaughter has already passed you! LOL!
Why do people stop sinning?
Because they start loving.
Why do they start loving?
Because Jesus forgave them and heals their hearts, releasing the love within
and planting some more.
What is bazzar is the idea that those who know and follow Jesus will still continue
in sin? If Jesus means victory and truth, a communion with victory, then this will
flow from His people.
Jesus is simple, put your desires and aspirations on the cross and walk into the needs
you find around you. If you find things are not working, you are not dealing with your
issues honestly. It is always that simple.
Because they start loving.
Why do they start loving?
Because Jesus forgave them and heals their hearts, releasing the love within
and planting some more.
What is bazzar is the idea that those who know and follow Jesus will still continue
in sin? If Jesus means victory and truth, a communion with victory, then this will
flow from His people.
Jesus is simple, put your desires and aspirations on the cross and walk into the needs
you find around you. If you find things are not working, you are not dealing with your
issues honestly. It is always that simple.
God's eternal government, will not be one without law.
God has, and will preserve His truth for the faithful. Did Jesus give any "graven image" to worship, of Himself? We find in Exodus20, in the Ten Commandments that image worship is against the Second Commandment. You'd have a problem primarily if you were worshiping the image- when seeing the exposes on Jesus' supposed image and origins. then so much for satan's success. Still we know that the majority in heaven was not deceived, but on earth, it will be.
I could not fully appreciate Dr. Walter Veith’s Total Onslaught series enough until recently learning of the total onslaught on not only Jesus Christ and His rightful place in the universe, but on His Name, the Bible, but also on our ability to worship happily. What is of God? God desires that we know Him better, change our hearts daily, as described in Corinthians13:1-13, not live lawlessness. I have, in research found Jesus’ name vindicated, not “just tolerated”, I’ve discovered that Luke was raised as a Greek, and that Greek was a language commonly spoken among the people at the time, is closer to Paleo-Hebrew than Aramaic or Modern Hebrew, and was the language of text Jesus read often from. Whatever Jesus and the apostles did, is what we must go by. Jesus reminds repeatedly that the object of His mission was to fulfill and save, not destroy, that goes for people and the law. Also, it's likely that the Samaritans would not have accepted the gospel in the traditional language of those they thought hated them. I’ve also read that Jesus spoke the word “Amen” after His model prayer, that Paul never said to be an even moderate alcohol drinker or eat unclean meats, but that he referred to the eating of meats devoted or that gave homage to idols, and that to consider always the weaker brother. Also, grapejuice, (unfortunately at times, translated wine) was sometimes used as medicine, and not the potent manufactured wine we have today). In addition, meats as it is understood at times referred to the original intended diet, including nuts, grains, fruits... learned that the TEN COMMANDMENT Sabbath, (not ceremonial sabbath days), was not done away with. One need only think through these truths, it’s part of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE IMMUTABLE LAW, that even the secular will agree with on some points should be followed, so why get rid of the one, (God said to remember,) and keep the nine? Friends, "Under grace, not under the law", does not mean lawlessness, which God is not of, and if it could be changed, He would have done that than for Jesus to die to redeem us. Under grace means you love the law, and by His power seek to keep it all the better) Among select ancient Bibles... (the more reliable today, the King James Version)- its poetry and multi-faceted meaning not lost or watered down as many versions, and it vital truths preserved...(lined up with the masoretic text/dead sea scrolls.)
We are mankind and our failings do not negate our Lord God, also both fine to say. All should prayerfully search Scripture for themselves. Jesus is the Rock. All we need do is have faith and live it. He did the rest. And we know "...faith if it hath not works, is dead..." James2:14-26. (KJV) When searching we musn't necessarily look up “Is.. Pagan?” Look up words rather as “.. is not of Pagan origin” One great example was the word God.Right now we say people have other gods, "such as money." does that have anything to do with the living God we serve? Or words that are in two different languages, but have no relation, though one is positive and another negative. Also, with a simple bing or google images search, you can look up "charts comparing Paleo-Hebrew to Ancient Greek"
A Scripture on Love:
1Corinthians13:1-13 King James Version(KJV)
“13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
John6:37King James Version(KJV)
“37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
Jeremiah31:3King James Version(KJV)
“3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.”
John16:33King James Version(KJV)
“33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
————————————————–
————————————————–
Matthew16:15-17King James Version(KJV)
“15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
————————————————–
Romans10:13King James Version(KJV)
“13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
——
All we are given is truly sufficient. Call upon His Name, search the Scriptures, worship on the day He kept, follow, as did the apostles, worship as they worshipped, and call upon whom they called upon, whether in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic.
_____________________________
--------------
Christian commentary on Total Onslaught: Changing the Word by Walter Veith- a must see- along with his other sermons/lectures... Battle of the Bibles, Strange Fire, Signs and Wonders, (historical proof of the Bible) A Spade Unearths the Truth, 1844 and the Final Onslaught, and many more.
Bible Translations:
[--Quote from: Wally on December 29, 2007,01:29:52 PM ---Have you seen "The Battle of the Bibles," and "Changing the Word?" Both are part of Dr. Walter Veith's Total Onslaught series. The give a very interesting perspective regarding the various translations of the Bible.
--- End quote ----
Quote from: Wally on December 29, 2007, 01:29:52 PM ---Most of them use the KJV now, not because I talked them into it, but because they have found it to be more reliable.
- End quote --- --- Quote from: Dora on December 27, 2007, 08:22:47 PM
--We just watched a video of Veith's "Changing the Word," and though I had heard and read some things about the changes, I was truly shocked when I watched his presentation. He had three people come up and compare texts from three versions. They read from the KJV first, then from the other two versions, the RSV and the NIV, the last two people would say, "That verse is just not here." The only way one could grasp it all (or even most of it) would be to pause the DVD and write it all down.
Yes, it was amazing!!
--- End quote -
Yes, it is, Dora...
Romans8:1KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
NKJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
NEB: The conclusion of the matter is this: there is no condemnation for those who are united with Christ Jesus.
NIV: Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
RSV: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
"it does show how many who use other versions on this particular text could be taught "just believe on Jesus and be saved" as well as "saved in their sins" teaching. These are rampant among most churches..."
The Veith DVD (thank you, Dora) on this subject is incredibly enlightening.
He points out the systematic downplaying of Jesus' divinity in most all modern translations; the atonement; Jesus' High Priesthood and many other things relative to salvation - but primarily taking Jesus out of the spotlight of being Savior, Redeemer, in the flesh, High Priest and Advocate, Judge.
James5:16 – changes “faults to one another” to “sins to one another” Makes man a confessor to man
RSV
Luke9:55, 56 – left off majority of verses – Jesus not to destroy but to save·
Rev22:14 – “wash their robes” vs. “do His commandments”
Hebrews7:21 – “after the order of Melchisedec” is missing. Denying Jesus’ higher priesthood
John5:39 – No longer “Search the Scriptures” – a command, yet a statement saying “you search the scriptures …
Mimi:
Richard, look at the post on Romans8:1. Easy to see if someone is using a modern version, the 2nd half of the text just does not exist.]…
--------------
See sermons/lectures: 1844 and the Final Onslaught by Walter Veith and Why the Sabbath by Doug Batchelor
For an urgent call to atonement see David Gates Total Possession and David Gates in Guam
-------
Another thing to note: God is NOT imaginary, nor fabled. As we are,... to see God, is to die. Even angels hid their faces before Him, and to forget reverence or be "unworthy" while approaching the very Ark of the Covenant was to die. Matthew18:3,4(KJV) 3 "His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.” Hebrews12:29(KJV) "For our God is a consuming fire." Matthew28:3,4.
We know the term "stunning beauty".. have you ever been "stunned" by the sudden visual beauty when encountering another human being? Then try to consider how much more "STUNNING" it would be to behold God in His Eternal Righteousness and Perfect Glory. It was a great act of Love and humility that Christ dwelt and walked among us, as a man, (and God), surrounded by sinfulness, yet while we were yet sinners (enemies), Christ died for us. Jesus is humble. He was named Michael the Archangel, and later humble enough to be named the Son of Man- unto our salvation- though He is the one begotten Son of God. Atheism denied. Be thankful that God is patient. Do not think that God is mocked. Galatians6:7(KJV) If many will admit to not knowing 1% of all there is to know, would they admit God could be in the 99% they have not learned of nor sought?
GOD PRESERVES HIS TRUTH:
Why is truth lost to so many? Satan was a "liar from the beginning", a counterfeiter, he corrupts. He can use a Nostradamus and help his predictions, (only so much as what God allows,) he can distort accounts of Biblical events, and promote myth by his lying wonders, and sometimes by people choosing to never learn more truth: people are led astray with fables that are passed down...and he can give you all the miracles and proof you need, if he's your god, and that's what you seek after. In Eden, Adam turned over dominion to him when he sinned, and by way of Eve's believing a subtle lie. Then, for redemption, by One, Jesus, came to pay the ransom that won man (many) back to God, that all might be saved if they have faith in Him. There's a thing called faith; Hebrews11:1 (KJV) "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." We also know throughout history and today, people have seen miracles to strengthen their faith, when in good faith, searching. When held on to, faith brings more knowledge. Matthew6:33(KJV) 33 "... seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." If you can't discern truth, at least begin by discerning a lie. Start with evolution, for example, it is a religion, which takes more faith to believe than Creationism. If you search videos Kent Hovind evolution, (his ideas on mark of the beast, former ideas on the rapture, and ideas on the Sabbath cannot be supported) but his evolution stance is noteworthy. There's also Doug Batchelor and Walter Veith's (known for being Bible-based and documented doctrine)... videos undeniably against the religion of evolution's ideas. You'd also be surprised to learn what year Darwin's "The Origin of Species" first came about, and the rest of its title. Anyway people are tainted and the spiritual battle for truth is ages old and continues. So if you don't have faith, at least start with questioning the lies and their agendas, to help find truth. "Amen" to that. God, our Creator can preserve His truth even where lies and error make their presence known.
-------
Whom do we say He is?
-Truth answers beautifully.
--------------
Worship the Lord in truth and sincerity-
God has, and will preserve His truth for the faithful. Did Jesus give any "graven image" to worship, of Himself? We find in Exodus20, in the Ten Commandments that image worship is against the Second Commandment. You'd have a problem primarily if you were worshiping the image- when seeing the exposes on Jesus' supposed image and origins. then so much for satan's success. Still we know that the majority in heaven was not deceived, but on earth, it will be.
I could not fully appreciate Dr. Walter Veith’s Total Onslaught series enough until recently learning of the total onslaught on not only Jesus Christ and His rightful place in the universe, but on His Name, the Bible, but also on our ability to worship happily. What is of God? God desires that we know Him better, change our hearts daily, as described in Corinthians13:1-13, not live lawlessness. I have, in research found Jesus’ name vindicated, not “just tolerated”, I’ve discovered that Luke was raised as a Greek, and that Greek was a language commonly spoken among the people at the time, is closer to Paleo-Hebrew than Aramaic or Modern Hebrew, and was the language of text Jesus read often from. Whatever Jesus and the apostles did, is what we must go by. Jesus reminds repeatedly that the object of His mission was to fulfill and save, not destroy, that goes for people and the law. Also, it's likely that the Samaritans would not have accepted the gospel in the traditional language of those they thought hated them. I’ve also read that Jesus spoke the word “Amen” after His model prayer, that Paul never said to be an even moderate alcohol drinker or eat unclean meats, but that he referred to the eating of meats devoted or that gave homage to idols, and that to consider always the weaker brother. Also, grapejuice, (unfortunately at times, translated wine) was sometimes used as medicine, and not the potent manufactured wine we have today). In addition, meats as it is understood at times referred to the original intended diet, including nuts, grains, fruits... learned that the TEN COMMANDMENT Sabbath, (not ceremonial sabbath days), was not done away with. One need only think through these truths, it’s part of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE IMMUTABLE LAW, that even the secular will agree with on some points should be followed, so why get rid of the one, (God said to remember,) and keep the nine? Friends, "Under grace, not under the law", does not mean lawlessness, which God is not of, and if it could be changed, He would have done that than for Jesus to die to redeem us. Under grace means you love the law, and by His power seek to keep it all the better) Among select ancient Bibles... (the more reliable today, the King James Version)- its poetry and multi-faceted meaning not lost or watered down as many versions, and it vital truths preserved...(lined up with the masoretic text/dead sea scrolls.)
We are mankind and our failings do not negate our Lord God, also both fine to say. All should prayerfully search Scripture for themselves. Jesus is the Rock. All we need do is have faith and live it. He did the rest. And we know "...faith if it hath not works, is dead..." James2:14-26. (KJV) When searching we musn't necessarily look up “Is.. Pagan?” Look up words rather as “.. is not of Pagan origin” One great example was the word God.Right now we say people have other gods, "such as money." does that have anything to do with the living God we serve? Or words that are in two different languages, but have no relation, though one is positive and another negative. Also, with a simple bing or google images search, you can look up "charts comparing Paleo-Hebrew to Ancient Greek"
A Scripture on Love:
1Corinthians13:1-13 King James Version(KJV)
“13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
John6:37King James Version(KJV)
“37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
Jeremiah31:3King James Version(KJV)
“3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.”
John16:33King James Version(KJV)
“33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
————————————————–
————————————————–
Matthew16:15-17King James Version(KJV)
“15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
————————————————–
Romans10:13King James Version(KJV)
“13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
——
All we are given is truly sufficient. Call upon His Name, search the Scriptures, worship on the day He kept, follow, as did the apostles, worship as they worshipped, and call upon whom they called upon, whether in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic.
_____________________________
--------------
Christian commentary on Total Onslaught: Changing the Word by Walter Veith- a must see- along with his other sermons/lectures... Battle of the Bibles, Strange Fire, Signs and Wonders, (historical proof of the Bible) A Spade Unearths the Truth, 1844 and the Final Onslaught, and many more.
Bible Translations:
[--Quote from: Wally on December 29, 2007,01:29:52 PM ---Have you seen "The Battle of the Bibles," and "Changing the Word?" Both are part of Dr. Walter Veith's Total Onslaught series. The give a very interesting perspective regarding the various translations of the Bible.
--- End quote ----
Quote from: Wally on December 29, 2007, 01:29:52 PM ---Most of them use the KJV now, not because I talked them into it, but because they have found it to be more reliable.
- End quote --- --- Quote from: Dora on December 27, 2007, 08:22:47 PM
--We just watched a video of Veith's "Changing the Word," and though I had heard and read some things about the changes, I was truly shocked when I watched his presentation. He had three people come up and compare texts from three versions. They read from the KJV first, then from the other two versions, the RSV and the NIV, the last two people would say, "That verse is just not here." The only way one could grasp it all (or even most of it) would be to pause the DVD and write it all down.
Yes, it was amazing!!
--- End quote -
Yes, it is, Dora...
Romans8:1KJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
NKJV: There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
NEB: The conclusion of the matter is this: there is no condemnation for those who are united with Christ Jesus.
NIV: Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
RSV: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
"it does show how many who use other versions on this particular text could be taught "just believe on Jesus and be saved" as well as "saved in their sins" teaching. These are rampant among most churches..."
The Veith DVD (thank you, Dora) on this subject is incredibly enlightening.
He points out the systematic downplaying of Jesus' divinity in most all modern translations; the atonement; Jesus' High Priesthood and many other things relative to salvation - but primarily taking Jesus out of the spotlight of being Savior, Redeemer, in the flesh, High Priest and Advocate, Judge.
James5:16 – changes “faults to one another” to “sins to one another” Makes man a confessor to man
RSV
Luke9:55, 56 – left off majority of verses – Jesus not to destroy but to save·
Rev22:14 – “wash their robes” vs. “do His commandments”
Hebrews7:21 – “after the order of Melchisedec” is missing. Denying Jesus’ higher priesthood
John5:39 – No longer “Search the Scriptures” – a command, yet a statement saying “you search the scriptures …
Mimi:
Richard, look at the post on Romans8:1. Easy to see if someone is using a modern version, the 2nd half of the text just does not exist.]…
--------------
See sermons/lectures: 1844 and the Final Onslaught by Walter Veith and Why the Sabbath by Doug Batchelor
For an urgent call to atonement see David Gates Total Possession and David Gates in Guam
-------
Another thing to note: God is NOT imaginary, nor fabled. As we are,... to see God, is to die. Even angels hid their faces before Him, and to forget reverence or be "unworthy" while approaching the very Ark of the Covenant was to die. Matthew18:3,4(KJV) 3 "His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.” Hebrews12:29(KJV) "For our God is a consuming fire." Matthew28:3,4.
We know the term "stunning beauty".. have you ever been "stunned" by the sudden visual beauty when encountering another human being? Then try to consider how much more "STUNNING" it would be to behold God in His Eternal Righteousness and Perfect Glory. It was a great act of Love and humility that Christ dwelt and walked among us, as a man, (and God), surrounded by sinfulness, yet while we were yet sinners (enemies), Christ died for us. Jesus is humble. He was named Michael the Archangel, and later humble enough to be named the Son of Man- unto our salvation- though He is the one begotten Son of God. Atheism denied. Be thankful that God is patient. Do not think that God is mocked. Galatians6:7(KJV) If many will admit to not knowing 1% of all there is to know, would they admit God could be in the 99% they have not learned of nor sought?
GOD PRESERVES HIS TRUTH:
Why is truth lost to so many? Satan was a "liar from the beginning", a counterfeiter, he corrupts. He can use a Nostradamus and help his predictions, (only so much as what God allows,) he can distort accounts of Biblical events, and promote myth by his lying wonders, and sometimes by people choosing to never learn more truth: people are led astray with fables that are passed down...and he can give you all the miracles and proof you need, if he's your god, and that's what you seek after. In Eden, Adam turned over dominion to him when he sinned, and by way of Eve's believing a subtle lie. Then, for redemption, by One, Jesus, came to pay the ransom that won man (many) back to God, that all might be saved if they have faith in Him. There's a thing called faith; Hebrews11:1 (KJV) "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." We also know throughout history and today, people have seen miracles to strengthen their faith, when in good faith, searching. When held on to, faith brings more knowledge. Matthew6:33(KJV) 33 "... seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." If you can't discern truth, at least begin by discerning a lie. Start with evolution, for example, it is a religion, which takes more faith to believe than Creationism. If you search videos Kent Hovind evolution, (his ideas on mark of the beast, former ideas on the rapture, and ideas on the Sabbath cannot be supported) but his evolution stance is noteworthy. There's also Doug Batchelor and Walter Veith's (known for being Bible-based and documented doctrine)... videos undeniably against the religion of evolution's ideas. You'd also be surprised to learn what year Darwin's "The Origin of Species" first came about, and the rest of its title. Anyway people are tainted and the spiritual battle for truth is ages old and continues. So if you don't have faith, at least start with questioning the lies and their agendas, to help find truth. "Amen" to that. God, our Creator can preserve His truth even where lies and error make their presence known.
-------
Whom do we say He is?
-Truth answers beautifully.
--------------
Worship the Lord in truth and sincerity-
a few months ago, isit said he went for periods of time without willful sinning. I cited James- to him to knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin, in response to this. we had a few back-and- fourths , and I said he was teaching sinless perfectionism. he said he was not. I said o.k., then say " I am not sinless and perfect" he has refused to do so. this is where I am coming from.
Here is one that started to see the light concerning all sins being cleansed by the blood of Jesus and this is back in the 1800's. This lady is well known for writing some of the most spiritual hymns of time.
Sometimes we think some truths are new but in reality they are not. Here is someone back in the 1800's that had a "heretical" understanding of grace in the form of our sins being forgiven.
I was reading about a hymn writer from the 1800's called Frances Ridley Havergal. She wrote many hymns and knew Latin, French, German, Greek and Hebrew. She also knew by heart the 4 gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation by the time she was 23 years old - yet she still lived in total defeat. She thought she had "great wickedness in her heart" - because of religious traditions taught to her.
It wasn't until she was reading in the Greek that the present tense was used for 1 John 1:7 ...His blood cleanseth us from all sin".
She realized all her sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus and thus she believed it and experienced peace and joy in her life because of this truth.
Here is a direct quote:
" Have we not been limiting 1 John 1:7 , by practically making it refer only to "remission of sins that are past" instead of taking the grand simplicity of "cleanseth from all sin"?
"All" is all; and as we may trust Him to cleanse us from the stain of past sins so we may trust Him to cleanse us from all present defilement; yes, all!
By refusing to take 1 John 1:7 in it's fullness, we will lose the fullness of it's application and power in our lives. It goes on cleansing , and I have no words to tell how my heart rejoices in it."
She got the revelation that all her sins were forgiven because she was in Christ and in the Light. She was able to walk free in Christ from that point on. Today she would be called a "hyper-grace" heretic by some.
Believing the true gospel will change us as we grow in His grace.
Source: Jennie Chappell, "Women Who Have Worked and Won: the life story of Mrs. Spurgeon, Mrs. Booth-Tucker, F.R. Havergal, and Ramabai," London: S.W. Partridge & Co. Ltd. 1904
Continuation:
Essay excerpt from another discussion:
ans:
"Your rendering of Job's testimony seemed to state that it was at the second advent. My presentation of texts were to clarify what Jesus said about His second coming, and the events of the third advent, as is supported by many other texts.
Job19:25 "For I know that my redeemer liveth and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" Job's Lord and defender shall stand in the end or as he states "latter day," He will be victorious to the very end (third coming). This interpretation, when compared to the texts I presented on the third coming is fine, and thankfully, the likely interpretation. Revelation21:2,5,6 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband..And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.." So seeing this, that John mentions the new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven and that He sat upon the throne, should I now claim confusion that maybe since Christ speaks of sitting on the throne those many times with regard to His second coming, that John must also be in this moment speaking of the second coming rather than the "latter day end because he said "sat"? Not at all, but this appears to be the logic you are following.
Secondly, my mention of the newer Bible versions or NKJV, which refers to the "elect" in reference to Jews only, rather than the KJV reference to the "elect" as spiritual Israel, was to point out that the King James Version is the more reliable, (and undoubtedly more eloquent) version. I did not say that Ellen White had quoted from the NKJV.
Another important point.. popular false doctrines of today make much of the establishment of an earthly kingdom in an earthly "Holy land," but Christ reminds us "..My kingdom is not of this world:" St.John18:36. Even the peculiar message of the Advent movement is subject to misinterpretation in the NKJV, when, as Pastor Veith points out that "Hagai Hagion" replaces KJV "Hagion" regarding Daniel's prophecy on the cleansing of the sanctuary. Daniel8:14 "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." Hebrews9:2,3 " For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;" Pastor Veith: "Holiest of all, in the Bible, is (hagai hagion).. It is used for "after the veil," and Is there a heavenly sanctuary? Yes, we see in Hebrews 8:1,2 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tavernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man." Hebrews9:11,14 " But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;..How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
Pastor Veith: "When Christ was resurrected, He went into the sanctuary. Some time thereafter, He must go from the holy, into the most holy .. "then will the sanctuary be cleansed" tells when He goes into the "most holy."
457----------------------------------1844
2300 years
In prophecy 1 day=1 year, 1 week= 7 days= 7 years, Ezekiel 4:6 "I have appointed thee each day for a year."
Num. 14:34 "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year.."
Daniel12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
" 1844 is the date of the end of the 2300 day prophecy. At the endof the 2300 days, there will be a cleansing of the sanctuary. Also, in Revelation10, we see through the unsealing of the book, the SDA started preaching the judgment message..
If Jesus went into the most holy immediately after resurrection, there is no special circumstance around 1844."
Type Antitype
1.Passover Crucifiction
2.Unleavened bread Christ in grave
3.Firstfruits Resurrection
4.Feast of weeks Pentecost
5.Trumpets Heralding the judgment (second
Advent movement)
6. Day of Atonement Pre-Advent Judgment
7. Tabernacles Home-going(second Advent)
This is the doctrine of the heavenly sanctuary... It tells of Christ's ministry Where He is officiating in the Holy or Most Holy is very important. The SDA have a peculiar message to the world. 1. explain the sanctuary 2. the ministry of Jesus 3. the judgment,..and it makes them the herald of the final message"
SDA keep the commandments of God, preach the 3 Angels' Message, and have the sanctuary message.
-How else was 1844 important?
At This Time We See The Rise Of:
Freemasonry- Albert Mackey's list of published works starts in 1844 with "A Lexicon of Freemasonry," "increasing interest and participation in masonic studies"
Mormon Church- founded by Joseph Smith in 1830, and headquarters since 1847
Spiritualism-
Theosophy-
Christian Science-
False prophets-
Jehova's Witnesses- 1870's, formerly the Bible Students Movement
Karl Marx writes The Communist Manifesto in 1844, which states there is no God
Bahai faith- founded in 1844
Darwin's "Origin of Species"..with the evolution doctrine and contradiction of God's Creation..started in 1844
....and the time of the beginnings of the movement which will say 'All churches unite'
-To make such points, is why I made mention of NKJV- Sometimes it is used for slower readers but God's
Word is preserved in the KJV and many newer versions are used to "prove" error at times.
-The Bible is clear with regard to events of the second and third coming,.. so please review again previous comments...and if you have questions about EGW comments, then pray as she did, for more light on the matter.
I have not seen what citings you refer to, still,.. We, and EG White are not infallible,..and who would claim to be? She has also often been misquoted..and some of her writings and actions, only God will reliably reveal in the end. That said..there have always been effort to discredit Christ, ..to discredit truth,.. to discredit those who have His testimony.. and so long as we stand for, and deliver the testimony of Christ, in the end.. we will prevail,...even to the "latter days."
It is vital, not to underestimate Satan's deceptive powers. This is why study of the end time is necessary. But when the scripture and truth is put forth sufficiently, it is not time to throw in unlikely conclusions. Please review the discussion, considering the matter prayerfully."
-earlier commentary
ans:
"At second coming, no, His feet will not touch the ground, There are a number of texts that make clear final events. 1 Thessalonians4:13-18 Hebrews12:29 and Deut9:3 and more. In one of Pastor Veith's sermons he explains that the Lord is a consuming fire, and sin, along with those who cling to it will be destroyed at the light of his presence. 2 Thess2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." 1Thess4:13-18 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Than we which are alive and remain sahll be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with th Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." There is no secret quiet rapture, but a shout, earthquake, great disturbance at the Lord's return. However Satan chooses his counterfeit, if all returns as was, or if he is roaming the earth and tv screens doing miracles, counseling, and trying to prove his authenticity, you should know it was not Christ, for Christ's return will put a full stop to the sin and wickedness. Seems simple enough but Satan will counterfeit while people are weak and desperate. Read Rev20.
Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise first, the living righteous are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus, Satan is "bound a thousand years" (what people call the millenium) with no one to tempt, not because things will carry on peacefully with Christ on earth, but because the wicked will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming, and Satan will have no one to tempt for a thousand years, and must see the results of his rebellion, also at this time, the saints will learn why some were saved and others were lost. After the thousand years, Satan is "loosed out of his prison" Rev20:7 for a little season, this marks the second resurrection (of the wicked) to learn why they were lost and they will recognize the vastness of Jesus' fairness and love, but they will not repent. Satan managed to deceive them again and they tried to take the holy city that descends on the mount of olives after the thousand years...all in Rev20. They are finally and utterly destroyed. Rev20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." See Doug Batchelor's The Witch of Endor, Doug Batchelor Why the Sabbath, Doug Batchelor Final Events in Bible Prophecy full movie, and also learn that hellfire is not eternal in Doug Batchelor's Is the Devil in Charge of Hell? Hellfire will be God's "strange" act. He suffered in our stead so we would have an escape, though many would reject His sacrifice. We are in His reality, made in His image, with free will active, to create and destroy, even with words. God's character would not eternally burn (for ever is also throughout the Bible used to describe the temporal at times) any of His creation. Hitler the quintessential tyrant did not do as much. Is the claim that God is a greater tyrant? God's word reveals his hatred of sin and perseverance with stubborn beloved sinners in the Old Testament. Christ's life reveals God's heart/character/love clearly for all in the New Testament.
Those who are not redeemed will be easy to deceive because the Lord will give them up to Satan's strong delusions because they loved not the truth."
God loves His people, and so He warns them. Satan wants us to be unprepared, lose confidence when believing a secret rapture has left them behind.
God wants to write His words/ commandments upon the tables of our hearts, to seal our foreheads/minds before our probationary time is over, for us to memorize His promises and to purify our hearts. He will save the faithful, the commandment keepers, those who love the Lord, love and minister to the brethren, those who are truthful."
Rev14:12(KJV)12 "Here is the patience of tand he saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, the faith of Jesus."
----------
1John2:15(KJV) 15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
1John3:4(KJV)
4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
Mathew10:38(KJV)
38 "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Mathew24:12(KJV)
12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
Matthew 24:13(KJV)
13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
James4:17(KJV)
17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
Essay excerpt from another discussion:
ans:
"Your rendering of Job's testimony seemed to state that it was at the second advent. My presentation of texts were to clarify what Jesus said about His second coming, and the events of the third advent, as is supported by many other texts.
Job19:25 "For I know that my redeemer liveth and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth" Job's Lord and defender shall stand in the end or as he states "latter day," He will be victorious to the very end (third coming). This interpretation, when compared to the texts I presented on the third coming is fine, and thankfully, the likely interpretation. Revelation21:2,5,6 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband..And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.." So seeing this, that John mentions the new Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven and that He sat upon the throne, should I now claim confusion that maybe since Christ speaks of sitting on the throne those many times with regard to His second coming, that John must also be in this moment speaking of the second coming rather than the "latter day end because he said "sat"? Not at all, but this appears to be the logic you are following.
Secondly, my mention of the newer Bible versions or NKJV, which refers to the "elect" in reference to Jews only, rather than the KJV reference to the "elect" as spiritual Israel, was to point out that the King James Version is the more reliable, (and undoubtedly more eloquent) version. I did not say that Ellen White had quoted from the NKJV.
Another important point.. popular false doctrines of today make much of the establishment of an earthly kingdom in an earthly "Holy land," but Christ reminds us "..My kingdom is not of this world:" St.John18:36. Even the peculiar message of the Advent movement is subject to misinterpretation in the NKJV, when, as Pastor Veith points out that "Hagai Hagion" replaces KJV "Hagion" regarding Daniel's prophecy on the cleansing of the sanctuary. Daniel8:14 "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." Hebrews9:2,3 " For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;" Pastor Veith: "Holiest of all, in the Bible, is (hagai hagion).. It is used for "after the veil," and Is there a heavenly sanctuary? Yes, we see in Hebrews 8:1,2 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tavernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man." Hebrews9:11,14 " But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;..How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
Pastor Veith: "When Christ was resurrected, He went into the sanctuary. Some time thereafter, He must go from the holy, into the most holy .. "then will the sanctuary be cleansed" tells when He goes into the "most holy."
457----------------------------------1844
2300 years
In prophecy 1 day=1 year, 1 week= 7 days= 7 years, Ezekiel 4:6 "I have appointed thee each day for a year."
Num. 14:34 "After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year.."
Daniel12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
" 1844 is the date of the end of the 2300 day prophecy. At the endof the 2300 days, there will be a cleansing of the sanctuary. Also, in Revelation10, we see through the unsealing of the book, the SDA started preaching the judgment message..
If Jesus went into the most holy immediately after resurrection, there is no special circumstance around 1844."
Type Antitype
1.Passover Crucifiction
2.Unleavened bread Christ in grave
3.Firstfruits Resurrection
4.Feast of weeks Pentecost
5.Trumpets Heralding the judgment (second
Advent movement)
6. Day of Atonement Pre-Advent Judgment
7. Tabernacles Home-going(second Advent)
This is the doctrine of the heavenly sanctuary... It tells of Christ's ministry Where He is officiating in the Holy or Most Holy is very important. The SDA have a peculiar message to the world. 1. explain the sanctuary 2. the ministry of Jesus 3. the judgment,..and it makes them the herald of the final message"
SDA keep the commandments of God, preach the 3 Angels' Message, and have the sanctuary message.
-How else was 1844 important?
At This Time We See The Rise Of:
Freemasonry- Albert Mackey's list of published works starts in 1844 with "A Lexicon of Freemasonry," "increasing interest and participation in masonic studies"
Mormon Church- founded by Joseph Smith in 1830, and headquarters since 1847
Spiritualism-
Theosophy-
Christian Science-
False prophets-
Jehova's Witnesses- 1870's, formerly the Bible Students Movement
Karl Marx writes The Communist Manifesto in 1844, which states there is no God
Bahai faith- founded in 1844
Darwin's "Origin of Species"..with the evolution doctrine and contradiction of God's Creation..started in 1844
....and the time of the beginnings of the movement which will say 'All churches unite'
-To make such points, is why I made mention of NKJV- Sometimes it is used for slower readers but God's
Word is preserved in the KJV and many newer versions are used to "prove" error at times.
-The Bible is clear with regard to events of the second and third coming,.. so please review again previous comments...and if you have questions about EGW comments, then pray as she did, for more light on the matter.
I have not seen what citings you refer to, still,.. We, and EG White are not infallible,..and who would claim to be? She has also often been misquoted..and some of her writings and actions, only God will reliably reveal in the end. That said..there have always been effort to discredit Christ, ..to discredit truth,.. to discredit those who have His testimony.. and so long as we stand for, and deliver the testimony of Christ, in the end.. we will prevail,...even to the "latter days."
It is vital, not to underestimate Satan's deceptive powers. This is why study of the end time is necessary. But when the scripture and truth is put forth sufficiently, it is not time to throw in unlikely conclusions. Please review the discussion, considering the matter prayerfully."
-earlier commentary
ans:
"At second coming, no, His feet will not touch the ground, There are a number of texts that make clear final events. 1 Thessalonians4:13-18 Hebrews12:29 and Deut9:3 and more. In one of Pastor Veith's sermons he explains that the Lord is a consuming fire, and sin, along with those who cling to it will be destroyed at the light of his presence. 2 Thess2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." 1Thess4:13-18 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Than we which are alive and remain sahll be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with th Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." There is no secret quiet rapture, but a shout, earthquake, great disturbance at the Lord's return. However Satan chooses his counterfeit, if all returns as was, or if he is roaming the earth and tv screens doing miracles, counseling, and trying to prove his authenticity, you should know it was not Christ, for Christ's return will put a full stop to the sin and wickedness. Seems simple enough but Satan will counterfeit while people are weak and desperate. Read Rev20.
Christ returns, the dead in Christ rise first, the living righteous are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus, Satan is "bound a thousand years" (what people call the millenium) with no one to tempt, not because things will carry on peacefully with Christ on earth, but because the wicked will be destroyed at the brightness of His coming, and Satan will have no one to tempt for a thousand years, and must see the results of his rebellion, also at this time, the saints will learn why some were saved and others were lost. After the thousand years, Satan is "loosed out of his prison" Rev20:7 for a little season, this marks the second resurrection (of the wicked) to learn why they were lost and they will recognize the vastness of Jesus' fairness and love, but they will not repent. Satan managed to deceive them again and they tried to take the holy city that descends on the mount of olives after the thousand years...all in Rev20. They are finally and utterly destroyed. Rev20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." See Doug Batchelor's The Witch of Endor, Doug Batchelor Why the Sabbath, Doug Batchelor Final Events in Bible Prophecy full movie, and also learn that hellfire is not eternal in Doug Batchelor's Is the Devil in Charge of Hell? Hellfire will be God's "strange" act. He suffered in our stead so we would have an escape, though many would reject His sacrifice. We are in His reality, made in His image, with free will active, to create and destroy, even with words. God's character would not eternally burn (for ever is also throughout the Bible used to describe the temporal at times) any of His creation. Hitler the quintessential tyrant did not do as much. Is the claim that God is a greater tyrant? God's word reveals his hatred of sin and perseverance with stubborn beloved sinners in the Old Testament. Christ's life reveals God's heart/character/love clearly for all in the New Testament.
Those who are not redeemed will be easy to deceive because the Lord will give them up to Satan's strong delusions because they loved not the truth."
God loves His people, and so He warns them. Satan wants us to be unprepared, lose confidence when believing a secret rapture has left them behind.
God wants to write His words/ commandments upon the tables of our hearts, to seal our foreheads/minds before our probationary time is over, for us to memorize His promises and to purify our hearts. He will save the faithful, the commandment keepers, those who love the Lord, love and minister to the brethren, those who are truthful."
Rev14:12(KJV)12 "Here is the patience of tand he saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, the faith of Jesus."
----------
1John2:15(KJV) 15 "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
1John3:4(KJV)
4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
Mathew10:38(KJV)
38 "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Mathew24:12(KJV)
12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
Matthew 24:13(KJV)
13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
James4:17(KJV)
17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
God is just. Yes, He DOES execute vengeance on His enemies.
Romans 3:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) [SUP]6 [/SUP]God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Psalm 58:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.
Psalm 94:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself.
Psalm 99:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Thou answeredst them, O LORD our God: thou wast a God that forgavest them, though thou tookest vengeance of their inventions.
Psalm 149:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
Isaiah 34:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isaiah 35:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isaiah 47:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.
Jeremiah 46:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
Jeremiah 51:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.
Luke 21:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Romans 12:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In flaming fire taking vengeance (1)on them that know not God,(2) and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV) [SUP]
13 [/SUP]Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.