Calvinism - Total Depravity

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StanJ said:
I want people to see the gospel that is not of human origin in what I say, not see me.
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"not of human origin"

that's what this thread is about, isn't it?
that our relationship with God is "not of human origin" ?
that it must be so, because of mans own inability to set himself free and truly see Christ, man being by nature the slave of sin?
 
StanJ said:
I've never encountered a calvinist who didn't learn the doctrine 1st and scripture 2nd.
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yes you have; you've been talking to several in this thread alone.

do you have free agency to change that fact?
 
John 1 speaks of the light of man being Christ and in that light is life, so I conclude that every living person has the light of Christ but it is eclipsed by the darkness of sin. In fact its no longer sin that condemns us but our choice to remain in darkness according to John 3:17-19 Its not that they are deprived completely otherwise Jesus wouldn't invite people to come to relationship with him. Where Calvinist get it wrong is that they say willfully receiving Christ is a work but its actually a rest.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
I have learned alot of what I was taught was wrong.. I am still learning, It is good to hear others.. Helps us think, and if we are open, keeps us in check with humility..
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Yeah... It's funny. My journey has been backwards from most. Makes me all the more grateful that I didn't have to "undo" any previous religious teachings and sift through to find truth.

Although in saying that, I did have to "undo" a slew of other worldly beliefs that I held onto for the majority of my life.

My walk is certainly not over and I stumble all the time! Blah!

Letting go, surrendering, and giving it all to God is tough stuff no matter what our background may be.
 
GODisLOVE7 said:
Yeah... It's funny. My journey has been backwards from most. Makes me all the more grateful that I didn't have to "undo" any previous religious teachings and sift through to find truth.

Although in saying that, I did have to "undo" a slew of other worldly beliefs that I held onto for the majority of my life.

My walk is certainly not over and I stumble all the time! Blah!

Letting go, surrendering, and giving it all to God is tough stuff no matter what our background may be.
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Amen, As paul said, We continue to run the race.. If we ever think we made it, We are in trouble..
 
You are right. Scripture does say the Light shineth on every man. I see it as the two trees in the garden of our heart. We too have to choose at some point of our life, ( drawing) which tree we will eat of.
 
stonesoffire said:
You are right. Scripture does say the Light shineth on every man. I see it as the two trees in the garden of our heart. We too have to choose at some point of our life, ( drawing) which tree we will eat of.
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The tree is a cross. Sadly, too many people do not see that, They just see a tree.
 
The tree of life, the Cross, the very Son of God.

Were you saying that few receive His cross, or their identification with His cross?
 
stonesoffire said:
The tree of life, the Cross, the very Son of God.

Were you saying that few receive His cross, or their identification with His cross?
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few recieve it, Because most can not see it for what it is.. they would rather eat of the other tree.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen, As paul said, We continue to run the race.. If we ever think we made it, We are in trouble..
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Ahhh... YES!

God has been really good at setting me straight when I start thinking or feeling like I'm crossing finish lines. But that rod can be ouchie sometimes... Lol. All for love, right?
 
GODisLOVE7 said:
Ahhh... YES!

God has been really good at setting me straight when I start thinking or feeling like I'm crossing finish lines. But that rod can be ouchie sometimes... Lol. All for love, right?
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lol.. Yeah, But it is for our own good.. I would rather be chastened, than allowed to continue on in my pride and suffer so much more because I could not figure it out myself. (we are usually slow. at least I am, and by the time I realise it, SO much damage has been done)
 
StanJ said:
Of course it does because truth doesn't contain error and fallacies do. Calvin used fallacious arguments to explain his doctrine. This is why we are told in the Bible to test all Spirits so that we can see where the fallacious arguments are and how they bring about falsehoods.
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Logical fallacy: "any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound" (Dictionary.com). This is the sense in which I used the term, and was clear from my post. While it is a valid synonym of "falsehood", if that is the way you're using it, then we are simply talking past each other. So, given that I introduced the term, how about you use it in the sense that I used it, and we'll continue the conversation.

StanJ said:
Where exactly have I misrepresented anything about Calvinism?
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Right here: "If you follow ANY teachings of Calvin you're a calvinist."

And by the way, "Where does the bible teach we are totally depraved?"... Romans 3:10-12; Jeremiah 17:9; Genesis 6:5.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I think you missed the point,
I can study the word of God. and come up with a belief, that just happens to agree with one or more of the points of calvanism, even though I may have never heard of calvin or his teachings (this would go with anyone, not just calvin)
It does not make me a Calvinist.
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No, I was actually making the point that you can't study the Bible and arrive at any conclusion that Calvin did but please feel free to show me if and where you did.
 
StanJ said:
No, I was actually making the point that you can't study the Bible and arrive at any conclusion that Calvin did but please feel free to show me if and where you did.
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oh really? thats quite sad, Because reality is you can not study the bible and NOT come up with some of Conclusions that Calvin did.. Like you can with arminian, and augustine, and Luther and many others.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
lol.. Yeah, But it is for our own good.. I would rather be chastened, than allowed to continue on in my pride and suffer so much more because I could not figure it out myself. (we are usually slow. at least I am, and by the time I realise it, SO much damage has been done)
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Humility, pride, self righteousnes... These things have been a major part of whatever "season" I'm in.

Like you, I'd much rather see my own maggoty insides than fooling myself with a shiny looking exterior. But man, its disgusting to look at and sludge through. And it constantly seeps back in... Jesus is the only one who can keep it out.

Nice to see that others here on CC are in the same boat. It's encouraging!
 
eternally-gratefull said:
yet some of calvins points are true,, We do not rejhect the truth of what calvin said only because he said it. we would have to discard all the bible, because we will nto agree with everyone.
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Then show them and back them up with scripture. By 'we', I'm guessing you are a calvinist?
 
GODisLOVE7 said:
Humility, pride, self righteousnes... These things have been a major part of whatever "season" I'm in.

Like you, I'd much rather see my own maggoty insides than fooling myself with a shiny looking exterior. But man, its disgusting to look at and sludge through. And it constantly seeps back in... Jesus is the only one who can keep it out.

Nice to see that others here on CC are in the same boat. It's encouraging!
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believe you me, there are times I look at my past and I get an upset stomach I am so horrified.

to think people can look at themselves and not be horrified is actually quite amazing, and just shows how people do not really know who and what God is.
 
StanJ said:
Then show them and back them up with scripture. By 'we', I'm guessing you are a calvinist?
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We have already discussed that. I do not follow calvin

You can not study scripture and realize that salvation is eternal. So you may disagree with the term Calvin uses (perseverance of the saints) but you have to agree with the precept. That who ever is saved and has been given eternal life is saved, period.
 
GODisLOVE7 said:
Well said. I would be a good example of this. I have studied the Bible without being exposed to religion and, of course, my beliefs were formed through reading the Bible and prayer. It wasn't until after I had a solid foundation and got to know the Word that I looked into what different religions believe (obviously this was part of God's plan).

Some beliefs align with what I know. Some challenge it. Just because there may be an alignment with any/some set of beliefs with my own does not mean I should be thrown into a category and labled, nor do I want to catagorize myself.

I just keep going back to the Bible and prayer to guide me. Hasn't failed me yet!
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So do you know what Calvinism teaches and are you calvinist / reformed or hold to any of that doctrine?
 
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