Calvinism - Total Depravity

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you just totally discredited yourself, i have never defended calvanism, i am apposed to it, good lucck with your rant!
That's tantamount to Peter saying I'll never deny you Lord. If you defend anything in Calvinism then you're defending Calvinism.
What I find kind of perplexing is why you won't just come out and say what point of the Tulip Doctrine you agree with and why. You just deny Calvinism outright but continue to say it's not all wrong.
 
I understand more than you know because in a thread where the context is Calvinism, you keep using the word 'we' and deny being calvinist so I have to wonder if you would be like Peter and deny knowing Christ if push came to shove? You need to stop deflecting and deal with the issues at hand.

According to Matt 16:20 Peter didn't deny Christ

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16
 
John 1:9 It says He enlightens every man who comes into the world. My paraphrasing of course.
The NIV translation states; [FONT=&quot]The true light[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] that gives light to everyone[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] was coming into the world.[/FONT]
 
According to Matt 16:20 Peter didn't deny Christ
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16

Jesus prophesied that he would in John 13:38 which was fullfilled in John 18:27
 
graphs aren't for changing the truth.
they are for communicating it through display of it =]

This graph distorts the truth therefore it does not communicate truth. Anybody can make a graph to show what they want politicians do it all the time. It's best to stick with what the scripture says about truth and this subject and not to open it up to deflection or equivocation or obfuscation.
 
This graph distorts the truth therefore it does not communicate truth. Anybody can make a graph to show what they want politicians do it all the time. It's best to stick with what the scripture says about truth and this subject and not to open it up to deflection or equivocation or obfuscation.

can you read this graph?

venn.JPG
 
Look, i'm sorry if you've seen some bad graphs in the past

Do you want to talk about it. . . ?
 
Error in doctrine is falsehood or false teaching. It's pretty simple unless your goal is to be equivocal.

Since you are choosing to be obtuse, I will quote the entire entry:

1. a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief, etc.: That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy.

2. a misleading or unsound argument.

3. deceptive, misleading, or false nature; erroneousness.

4. Logic. any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound.

5. Obsolete. deception.


Once again, I introduced the term to the discussion, using it in the fourth sense. You don't get to switch to another sense and then claim that I'm incorrect. That is invalid and disingenuous, and you are the one being equivocal.

That's correct anybody who follows the teachings of Calvin is a calvinist because the Bible doesn't teach with Calvin does...
Once again, agreeing with one thing which someone once taught does not make one a follower of that person. Your reasoning is flawed.

and I've asked you a dozen times to show me and you continue to deflect and not do it.
Actually, you haven't. And I haven't deflected. Please follow the thread carefully, don't exaggerate, and don't make unfounded accusations.

None of the verses you quoted here teach depravity and if they do then exegete them properly. Luke 11:13 in Jesus' own words shows that men may be evil but they're not totally depraved.

"There is none that seek Him"... is not needing much in the way of exegesis. It means NONE SEEK HIM. That is the essence of total depravity, as used in the teachings of Calvinism.

For the record, I am not a Calvinist, nor do I hold to any particular teachings of Calvinism. However, I am capable of understanding an argument even if I don't hold it, and explaining it to people who clearly don't.

Here's an explanation from some who do hold to it:

Total Depravity (Total Inability) Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.
The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5). (Calvinism Soteriology Topics)

If you have a problem with this view, take it up with them. I don't care to discuss this with you any more.
 
seriously???????????
Romans 3:23
Romans 7:18
Yes very seriously...I don't see one word in these two scriptures that teach anything about total depravity. Do you actually understand these two words or the issue of total depravity as taught by Calvin?
 
Look, i'm sorry if you've seen some bad graphs in the past
Do you want to talk about it. . . ?
As I said, graphs don't mean anything because they don't represent a truth. They are concocted by people that try to sell the point and I don't buy what you're trying to sell. If you accept any part of the Tulip Doctrine then you're a calvinist and you're accepting false teaching.
If you don't want to admit that then that's your choice but it doesn't change my mind one iota, nor the truth.
 
If you defend anything in Calvinism then you're defending Calvinism.


This is is totally untrue. In Seminary, when we discussed Reformed Theology, our professor, NOT a Calvinist, had us rate where we stood with regards to TULIP. We ranged from 1 point, through 2 1/2 (me at that time, and several others,) through to a 5 point Reformed pastor, who attended our seminary. We also had other students who were Reformed Baptist, and of course Arminians. All viewpoints were valid, providing we were able to back it with Scripture.

Your rigid, black and white thinking, above, also known as "magical thinking" is not a good sign! In fact, in is indicative of childhood trauma!

"Black and white thinking and other cognitive distortions:
• Child-like, concrete, and magical thinking
• What they think is normal and real does not coincide with "real life"
• Derive "life rules" and “automatic thoughts” from childhood distortions
• Cling to the distortions despite challenge or contrary evidence
• Provoke a non-existent reality into being in order to verify a distortion
• Collect evidence to support the distortion while ignoring evidence to the contrary
• Patterns of distorted thinking (such as generalizations, all or nothing, discounting,
jumping to conclusions, assuming, labeling, and emotional reasoning)"

http://www.traumarecoveryassociates.com/signs-of-unresolved-trauma.html

That list pretty much sums up what I have seen in your posts since joining CC. You might want to get some help. I'm sure you could benefit, if you received counselling.

As for these ridiculous statements, to say nothing of your complete lack of understanding of Reformed Theology, you might want to read the book, "What is Reformed Theology? Understanding the Basics" by RC Sproule. I don't think you will agree with everything, but it might be an eye opener how many things you thought Calvinism was, that are actually not true at all! I know it did for me!