Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Johnny_B]

I disagree. I think that the reformed theology can be proven from the Bible alone. You do not need any outside catechism to do it for you.

Gospel Truth

 

[Johnny_B]

I think I gave you the ability to uncomplicate what you think is complicated.

The whole Bible is about relationship and Father desiring to have it with everyone.

Rev 3.20 is a specific verse.

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

3:20 is in the context of the church of Laodicea, so Jesus is knocking on the door of that church, not on peoples hearts like so many people add to the Scripture.

 

[Sac49]

Perseverence of the Saints is in line with the OSAS view of salvation.

If you have genuine faith and are in a state of saving grace yiu will never lose it. Basically when we see others "walk away" from God they never had genuine faith. 1 John 2:19 "Those who went out from us were never really with us". They confessed outwardly but not inwardly. Matt 15:8 "This people honors me with their lips but their heart is far from me". The view of not loosing our salvation comes patially from Joshua 1:5 where God says to Moses "I will never leave you or forsake you". And again in Heb 13:5.

 

[Depleted]

First of all what an amazing story,prayer answered,you all getting that window fixed. And shout out to brother Penn Ed for being a real servant. We all like to yap about what we believe in here but its what we do out in the real world that matters.And helping each other matters.Ive had people help in in that type of way,I just didn't know what I was going to do and right on time God sends a brother/sister in the Lord to help. I can understand holding back tears.

My uncles wife went forward at a camp meeting years ago and got saved. We thought it was one of those convicting moments and then,as your story, she went back to her regular way of living. We certainly thought she wasn't saved.But unbeknownst to us she had attended a church off and on over the years and took her kids.A few years ago my uncle called and said something we had prayed for for years and years,he had started attending church because of his wife.Now they aren't mature Christians but they are in church and learning,they go every Sunday. So we need to be careful of looking on the outside,God looks at the heart.

Ah. Forgot to mention. The grandmother walked down to be prayed over in the 1930's and died in the 1990's unchanged. I backslid within 4 months of regeneration, and my BIL backslide immediately. It took four years to see the change in me. 12 Years (and a Christian woman who would not marry a nonChristian lol) to see the change in him.

I'm still not sure if Judas was saved from that very last moment between jumping and splattering, but I'm pretty sure he didn't. That is the heights I give to the grandmother. It's possible, but no one ever saw anything change in her. (Nice lady, but not changed.)

 

[Depleted]

Now its MY TURN to defend!! You,preacher,are way out of line and not living up to your name. Lynn has dealt with a sick husband,which but for the grace of God,she almost lost! She has health issues of her own while looking after her husband not knowing what the out come would be,hoping and praying.I can only imagine what they have suffered. So she is a long way from idle and if you were a gentleman,let alone a preacher you would apologize! You do not know her personally,what she does in her life and whatever time she spends on here is her own business.

You know what I like about Lynn,she's direct. She'll come at ya like a possum sometimes,but as shown above she's not too big for her britches to apologize. She has a big heart and she's encouraged and uplifted me here more than once.There's stuff we dont agree on but Id rather somebody step up and tell me what they think than going behind my back.I think your comments are a low blow.I asked,more than once,on this thread for people to be level headed and take the nastiness somewhere else. You call yourself preacher? Act like one! And at your age I expect more out of you.

Ummm, thank you?!

I kind of stopped reading what he wrote somewhere in the first paragraph, when I realized it was a what-for, instead of a thought. So, I didn't read everything you wrote past getting you're defending me, for fear I'd figure out what he wrote, and then get all defensive anyway.

But thank you for the defense.

 

[Depleted]

​ Ive asked several questions that no one answered. Read back... And I have asked for your view,whatever question you see I expect your POV.

I've answered everyone, including the one that didn't help you any getting what the Reformed think, because I get stuck at the same place. lol

IDK is an answer.

 

[Depleted]

John; 10;27-30;My sheep hear my voice,and i know them,and they follow me. 28;and i give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish;neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand;29; my father ,which gave them me,is greater than all,and no man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand.. 30'I and my father are one.---------------------------If you believe and have received everything Jesus said in Matthew, then you are his sheep, and he know you.all the words in red is his teachings. People may not realize it but the words in red are the most important. they are the cornerstone as Jesus is of the Gospel of the kingdom of God.

Oh, most of us are going "we're all sheep." We're just trying to figure out the difference between the shorn sheep and the spotted sheep. lol

 

[Depleted]

Ah what kind of faith do people really have?

A Saving faith rested firmly in the finished work of Christ or a heathen or devil "faith" in God's existence?

A devils faith acknowledge that Jesus may be Lord but He is not THEIR savior,THEY are. A heathen faith that believes that this world is more important than an unseen eternity.

Or a false faith in false idols of their creation?

Only person who can truly say who is truly God's elect, His born again children is His Holy Spirit.

I know, for sure, on two of God's elect. (I strongly suspect on many more, but you're right. It usually is God alone who knows for sure.)

I am elected. Hubby is elected. I know I'm elected because I've tried multiple times to walk away, and could not. (Even ticked me off I couldn't, and I was already angry. ) God's got me, and he's got me good. I figured that out (again) last March after walking away for a good three days. Not only does he have me, he horse-collars me much quicker than he used to.

Hubby figured it out, (yet again), last week about him. But he has been constant with God, so I really can't figure out why he doubts.

So, two people I know for sure.

You? Kayla? And so many other people on this site I'm pretty darn sure about.

 

[Depleted]

And BTW. I had like 15 posts with my answers and refutations of others ready to post until I finally lost my patience. Decided it was futile and decided to just say whatever, this is pointless.

It usually is pointless. Someone starts a thread refuting Calvinism and we're pretty well certain all it's going to be is people working hard to slap each other on their backs for agreeing with one another, (even when they aren't even doing that.)

This one is different. At least two people are listening. (Kayla and Ariel.) Sure, still got the usual back patters, (I'd list them but that might be reportable. If I lose my temper, I might list them anyway. lol) And then there are the lurkers. People watching, but not responding.

We ARE being listened to. I know, for sure, I loved some of your answers. I'm no more kidding about how good you are with that then I was for the other thing. We were getting somewhere. We are getting somewhere. And, yes, we are getting somewhere despite the mockers. And we are getting somewhere despite the arguments. (I have really got to keep my big mouth shut about Wesley. )

And yes, you were doing good until you let it get under your skin. You're better at this practice stuff than I am.

BUT, once it gets under your skin, drive it out. Or better yet, let God drive it out, so you can get back to defending position, instead of defending you. If you got to throw something, throw something. (Do NOT throw fragile items and do NOT throw things into fragile items. Experience talking. I still miss that figurine, and boy that window cost a lot to replace! lol) If you got to run a marathon to get the anger out, run a marathon. Do whatever you got to do...

And when calm, come back and keep at it. BUT get rid of the 'tude first. I'm learning from you what Reformed means in ways I've never considered, and I like that. BUT once you went off to defend yourself, you wouldn't let it go. Remember, sometimes it's us, not the other person. I had told Kayla and Ariel the same things over and over again, and yet, only once (well, I really think Ariel will finally get what I'm saying, when I said it again), did they finally get what I was trying to say. Is that me, or is that them? Does it matter? They were listening to something that is important, so as long as they hear, I'm good.

What becomes of this is of God, as long as we defend position, not us. Even if they never agree, at least they know. God does not save us by our ability to understand. He saves us for his glory and our good. These are sisters, even if we will always disagree on who gets the bathroom first. lol

This is NOT your usual "Calvinist-bad. Me good" thread. This is listening!

 

[preacher4truth]

I think that terror is what is left for unbelievers. In the moment we become the children of God, the fear of His magnificence, power etc stays, but the terror as such (something painful, without peace in our mind) goes away.

But this is just my point of view and we may be using words differently.

I don't know, maybe it needs defined a bit more from the biblical view of saints who had this experience. Job and other saints expressed terror when in His presence, Israelites &c. But I am not saying suggesting this terror to be a lacking of peace. R C Sproul's talked of his conversion and feeling absolute terror when He knelt before Him in salvation. Probably John the Apostle felt a sense of terror when he fell down as a dead man. That is the terror that I am referring to, one experienced by saints.

 

[trofimus]

You know, if somebody wants to know "what Calvinists believe", google is the best source... there are so many calvinistic websites, teachers, preachers, catechisms (Heidelberg), synods (Dordrecht), confessions (2nd helvetic confession), youtube discussions etc...


If somebody wants to know what specifically some people here on CC believe about Calvinism, PM seems to be the best way.

Any discussion thread will be filled with irrelevant posts and useless discussions...

 

[Depleted]

And Ariel, I have no beef with you. My only issue is that you play both sides. I think you are closer to the truth than most here though, and I hope you keep trying to learn. I have nothing else to say on this thread though.

Ah, Ariel and I are alike there. We're not playing. And we're not taking sides. Our aim is for solid truth. Truth doesn't have a side. Both of us are going to tell anyone when they're wrong no matter which side of an argument the person is on.

And as far as arguing goes, that's where Ariel and I different the most. We're usually on opposite sides of an argument. There's the difference. We do seek truth. We do demand truth. Sometimes what we think, (believe with our whole heart, so we aren't lying), isn't truth as much as we thought it was. And sometimes? Sometimes we simply don't get that so stick to what we thought until proved otherwise.

 

[lonestar26]

There are also verses about fear of God and service to God.

We must take all, not just Rev 3:20 and then say "it is not about service" or similar.

"Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor." 1Pt 2:17

I never said it was about service or serving, you did.

I said God wants relationship not fear induced servitude

Serving and service unto God is not servitude.

You will never understand relationship with God no matter how many specific verses I put up. This is because you are blinded by theology that says God does all the picking and choosing, instead of the true Gospel that says all are invited, but must chose.

 

[ForthAngel]

I don't know, maybe it needs defined a bit more from the biblical view of saints who had this experience. Job and other saints expressed terror when in His presence, Israelites &c. But I am not saying suggesting this terror to be a lacking of peace. R C Sproul's talked of his conversion and feeling absolute terror when He knelt before Him in salvation. Probably John the Apostle felt a sense of terror when he fell down as a dead man. That is the terror that I am referring to, one experienced by saints.

My conversion was terrifying when I realized how sinful I was before a holy God. It's what lead me to understand grace in it's fullest. It lead to my repentance and ultimately my obedience. The terror subsided when God comforted me by his grace and love and that terror turned to reverence and obedience. Not saying I obey perfectly, obviously I don't, but the desire to do so is a powerful one, but no longer out of fear. Nonetheless, it was the initial terror that turned me to God.

 

[notuptome]

But not everyone has the light of Jesus.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

They are already dead (Eph 2.1-3). What they NEED is life, but it is only given to some.

Yes but available to all.

He breathes life into those chosen by God (John 6.37-42).

The whosoever wills.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[lonestar26]

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

3:20 is in the context of the church of Laodicea, so Jesus is knocking on the door of that church, not on peoples hearts like so many people add to the Scripture.

He is talking about a group of people in a church he wants to have relationship with despite their total depravity.

 

[lonestar26]

Ah. Forgot to mention. The grandmother walked down to be prayed over in the 1930's and died in the 1990's unchanged. I backslid within 4 months of regeneration, and my BIL backslide immediately. It took four years to see the change in me. 12 Years (and a Christian woman who would not marry a nonChristian lol) to see the change in him.

I'm still not sure if Judas was saved from that very last moment between jumping and splattering, but I'm pretty sure he didn't. That is the heights I give to the grandmother. It's possible, but no one ever saw anything change in her. (Nice lady, but not changed.)

How would Judas be saved?

 

[preacher4truth]

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

3:20 is in the context of the church of Laodicea, so Jesus is knocking on the door of that church, not on peoples hearts like so many people add to the Scripture.

That is the thing with anti-Calvinist and Arminian teachings - context has to be thrown out in order to use the text to prove their premise. Reformed theology holds to a very consistent hermeneutic, their theology does not. For example when we look at spiritual death, we see the total inability outside of God for the person to come to God. The term "dead" is "nekros" (a corpse). But what will happen to support free will is they will say "it only means separation from God" and then go into free will, and take Scriptures out of context.

The opposite of this "rule of interpretation" can be found in their treatment of "repentance." We see repentance as a turning from sin, as context supports that definition. But many of the other camp will go to the strict definition of "metanoia" (repentance) and say "No, it only means change of mind, "metanoia" "a change of mind"!"

This shows the inconsistency of their hermeneutic: one term gets a "spiritualized" definition (nekros) departing from the true strict definition in order to grant the spiritually dead an ability they do not have, while repentance on the other hand is only its strict definition and cannot mean anything else especially turning from sin.

But repentance must mean only its strict definition to them because turning from sin, progressive sanctification, evidence of conversion must all be twisted into a "works gospel" to derogate others. IOW repentance cannot be allowed to be seen as a lifestyle of turning from sin, some go as far as to say it isn't even necessary for salvation. To be fair not all those of the other camp(s) do this, but many do, and they all hold to an inconsistent hermeneutic.

 

[preacher4truth]

My conversion was terrifying when I realized how sinful I was before a holy God. It's what lead me to understand grace in it's fullest. It lead to my repentance and ultimately my obedience. The terror subsided when God comforted me by his grace and love and that terror turned to reverence and obedience. Not saying I obey perfectly, obviously I don't, but the desire to do so is a powerful one, but no longer out of fear. Nonetheless, it was the initial terror that turned me to God.

That's great, thanks bro! I read an article about some Christian girl who attended a service and talked about feeling the terror of God. Take it FWIW but here it is:

I Saw the Terror of the Lord - From His Presence®

 

[ForthAngel]

That's great, thanks bro! I read an article about some Christian girl who attended a service and talked about feeling the terror of God. Take it FWIW but here it is:

I Saw the Terror of the Lord - From His Presence®

Interesting article... I dunno what to take from it because of the church she was attending. Bill Johnson is a heretic and Bethel church is into some weird stuff. Unlike the girl in the article, this was a process for me, not a one night "encounter".