Can a woman be 'called' by God into ministry to teach and preach men?

[nathan3]

It doesn't say the vian chatting were because of the women, it doesn't say that that is the reason women cannot teach. It doesn't say there were problems among the women, but we can assume so because their were problems with the whole church cause of the letter being sent at all. There is no evidence in the letter though that the reason women could not speak is because of that particular church's problems. You are assuming its the women's fault that their are problems in the church. You are drawling lines where there is no evidence that they should be drawn. We take it in context. The whole chapter is talking about the order of how things are to be done.

Well that is what it says. The letter is addressed to the church at Ephesus . 1 Tim 1. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Following the subject, it makes sense, why Paul would say After the "vain chatting" ( jangling ) ; that women should not teach. It would make more sense it was these women, in this church in particular . Because Paul says women do teach, when he called them Prophets also. A prophet teaches God's words, to people. And Huldah illustrates that for us.

 

[tucksma]

Well that is what it says. The letter is addressed to the church at Ephesus . 1 Tim 1. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Following the subject, it makes sense, why Paul would say After the "vain chatting" ( jangling ) ; that women should not teach. It would make more sense it was these women, in this church in particular . Because Paul says women do teach, when he called them Prophets also. A prophet teaches God's words, to people. And Huldah illustrates that for us.

A prophet says what they saw in a vision or from talking to God. That isn't leading a church or teaching.

Also there are plenty of things talked about between 1 tim 1 and 1 tim2 12. You are drawing a giant line there that shouldn't be there. He never blames the women. He's reorganizing the church to fit how God wants it done. Now we feel like we don't have to do it God's way by we can do it our way. Paul did it God's way. Why don't we?
We have to take the word for what it is, and not try to fit our own agenda in it. Phil , Believe, and I are doing that. We take the word for how it is. Do we like it like that? I donno about them, but I don't. I'd love some women in my church to teach me, they are brilliant. This is why I get as much 1 on 1 with some of them, because I learn a ton. Does that justify them leading the church? Nope. Does it say anywhere women should lead a church? or can? Nope. Are there any examples of women leading a church? Nope. Are there any examples of women teaching other brothers? Nope. Are there any verses that state God changed his mind on this? Nope. Are there any verses saying this was "just for them"? Nope. Are there any verses saying this is just Paul's way? Nope.


Hmmmm seems confusing why there is even a debate at all about this with there being no evidence in scripture women can teach men.

 

[tucksma]

Huldah is a prophet who spoke what God showed her, to high priests. Notice she isn't called a high priest herself. She also isn't reading the bible, getting her understanding, and saying it (what a pastor does). She is saying EXACTLY what God told her to.

Big difference.

 

[nathan3]

A prophet says what they saw in a vision or from talking to God. That isn't leading a church or teaching.

Also there are plenty of things talked about between 1 tim 1 and 1 tim2 12. You are drawing a giant line there that shouldn't be there. He never blames the women. He's reorganizing the church to fit how God wants it done. Now we feel like we don't have to do it God's way by we can do it our way. Paul did it God's way. Why don't we?
We have to take the word for what it is, and not try to fit our own agenda in it. Phil , Believe, and I are doing that. We take the word for how it is. Do we like it like that? I donno about them, but I don't. I'd love some women in my church to teach me, they are brilliant. This is why I get as much 1 on 1 with some of them, because I learn a ton. Does that justify them leading the church? Nope. Does it say anywhere women should lead a church? or can? Nope. Are there any examples of women leading a church? Nope. Are there any examples of women teaching other brothers? Nope. Are there any verses that state God changed his mind on this? Nope. Are there any verses saying this was "just for them"? Nope. Are there any verses saying this is just Paul's way? Nope.


Hmmmm seems confusing why there is even a debate at all about this with there being no evidence in scripture women can teach men.

Um yes if they are teaching God's words, then yes, it justifies them leading a church. Again. If you have a man teaching rapture, and a woman teaching its wrong, then yes, the women is going to be in good standing with God, and that man, just lead his whole congregation to worship Satan.

So yes, I know the woman is going to be just fine, teaching a whole church if, she is teaching God's words. Like is written, there is neither male nor female in Christ. Not to mention, God saying, man and women are one. You cannot have half of one person silent some times. That makes no sense. And its not written.


Again, Huldah was a teacher and head of the collage. That is God's house. The men, went to her, to learn God's words. And on top of that, God spoke directly to her, a woman, to give the message to the men:


In light of that fact, makes much more sense Paul was addressing the vain jangling in that church. And that is the context it needs to be read it.

 

[nathan3]

Here it is, and example, of a woman ( Huldah) , teaching men God's words. Not only that, a woman, who heard God herself. She is a prophetess ; that ,means shes is more then capable of teaching God's words. She even is at a collage , and at this collage they taught God's words no doubt . If I'm not mistaken, she was also the head.




2 Chronicles 34:22-28

King James Version (KJV)

22 And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college: ) and they spake to her to that effect.

23 And she answered them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Tell ye the man that sent you to me,

24 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah:

25 Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched.

26 And as for the king of Judah, who sent you to enquire of the Lord, so shall ye say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel concerning the words which thou hast heard;

27 Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the Lord.

28 Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again.

 

[phil112]

Here it is, and example, of a woman ( Huldah) , teaching men God's words. Not only that, a woman, who heard God herself. She is a prophetess ; that ,means shes is more then capable of teaching God's words. She even is at a collage , and at this collage they taught God's words no doubt . If I'm not mistaken, she was also the head.......................................

collage:

col·lage /kəˈlɑʒ, konoun a technique of composing a work of art by pasting on a single surface various materials not normally associated with one another, as newspaper clippings, parts of photographs, theater tickets, and fragments of an envelope.

She was probably a poetess.

 

[nathan3]

collage:

She was probably a poetess.

Shes not writing poetry in that chapter. She is teaching God's words. And it expressly says, she is a prophetess.

 

[tucksma]

Prophet doesn't = teacher in this context.

A prophet teaches men by saying exactly what God says. Its not thier own understanding of God's word, but God himself talking through her. A pastor doesn't do that. He reads the word and comes up with his understanding of it. He teaches what he thinks God's word means. That is the teaching in this context. If God talks directly to you and you say what God says, you really did nothing, you were just a vessel.

Theres the difference.

 

[nathan3]

Prophet doesn't = teacher in this context.

A prophet teaches men by saying exactly what God says. Its not thier own understanding of God's word, but God himself talking through her. A pastor doesn't do that. He reads the word and comes up with his understanding of it. He teaches what he thinks God's word means. That is the teaching in this context. If God talks directly to you and you say what God says, you really did nothing, you were just a vessel.

Theres the difference.

There would be little to no difference, because teaching God's words, is also His words. Anyway you want to slice it. Men do not Rely on their own understanding of the written word either, because no scripture is open for personal interpretation as its written. Or, at least that's how its suppose to be.


He's not suppose to come up with his understanding of it.

Weather its by Him directly, or directly from His written words. Even the Apostles where called prophets. Paul, and Apostle being very familiar with God's written word.
Prophet, is a broader term, and not as specific as you might think.

 

[tucksma]

There would be little to no difference, because teaching God's words, is also His words. Anyway you want to slice it. Men do not Rely on their own understanding of the written word either, because no scripture is open for personal interpretation as its written. Or, at least that's how its suppose to be.


He's not suppose to come up with his understanding of it.

Weather its by Him directly, or directly from His written words. Even the Apostles where called prophets. Paul, and Apostle being very familiar with God's written word.
Prophet, is a broader term, and not as specific as you might think.

He doesn't try to come up with his understanding, but tries to come up with what God's words mean. This is evident with the billion different religions (I know I exaggerated).

There is a huge difference between speaking what you are shown or told, and speaking using your own study. Ones given directly from God, the other requires you to do some study.

How do you know prophet isn't specific? we've shown you many definitions that are pretty specific.

Even GreenNice agrees with us on this.

 

[nathan3]

He doesn't try to come up with his understanding, but tries to come up with what God's words mean. This is evident with the billion different religions (I know I exaggerated).

There is a huge difference between speaking what you are shown or told, and speaking using your own study. Ones given directly from God, the other requires you to do some study.

How do you know prophet isn't specific? we've shown you many definitions that are pretty specific.

Even GreenNice agrees with us on this.

Wouldn't God's words mean what they say ? ?GreenNice? anyway, lets see if God's words agree. ....


Huldah ? What do you have to say about her. The men wanted to know what God's words say; yes ? They were not educated enough to understand or read it even.

The book they found : God's words. They took it to her. And she told them what it said. She taught it to them. And her title was a prophetess .

That is either a fact or not. It's either written, or not.

 

[nathan3]

I gotta get going. I'll be back later .

 

[phil112]

Shes not writing poetry in that chapter. She is teaching God's words. And it expressly says, she is a prophetess.

prophetess: 5031 OT - Hebrew: a prophetess or (generally) inspired woman; by implication, a poetess; by association a prophet's wife:--prophetess.

Nathan, when you turn on the news, is the newsman teaching you or telling you?

 

[GreenNnice]

I had, it was only brought up because the highway man brought it up.

Then, ask for forgiveness and drop it, and, by the way, this said in love, too, I did forgive, as, I was NEVER making fun of your name as you thought. I just nickname everyone. But, yes, the Lord leads, it's dropped, tuck.

Alright finally we agree on something, never assume. What are we doing? Looking at God's word to make a stand. -not assuming.

You are looking at a women as a pastor and assuming God is using her. -assuming.

You look at the world and make an opinion, we look at scripture and agree with his word.

The logic of "well God's put a women as pastor so it most be ok" is like saying "well God's let gays get legal so it must be okay"

If someone wants to go against God they can. It happens all the time. Its the same thing with women pastors. They are going against him. Its like Kain and Able. Both tried supporting God, but Kain did it "his way". Women are doing it "their way" right now. Are they trying to support God? Absolutely. So was Kain. Are they doing it how God stated he wants it done? NOPE.

We don't assume, we look at scripture. You ignore scripture and assume she is being used.

I don't ignore Scripture, she IS being used by GOD, and, tuck, here ye these words, bro, she HAS been called by God. You assume she is going against God's word, but, I got news for you (good news!) she has been CALLED , HER. GOD HAS CALLED HER to be a woman pastor. Again, NEVER assume. it's going to get you in sooo much trouble, tuck. And, most certainly, do NOT assume that you KNOW what God's doing just because you THINK you understand a passage in the bible correctly.

Obviously, there is much confusion and interpretation differences of 1 Tim. 2:12 and, so, your assumption is, definitely, not going to be right with a lot of folk who are ALL following the Lord--His Spirit in them--in their lives .

Actually Jesus says those who follow him will be persecuted. SO the fact that he won't be getting likes from women doesn't mean he isn't right. Its the opinion of God that matters, not the opinion of men/women.

Also you haven't been counseling me. Don't put yourself in a higher position than me in your head, cause youre not. Don't toot your own horn.


Women pastoring is a parallel to how they are in the home! Why? Well one its talked about side by side in Tim. Also if I wife is to submit to her husband, yet leads him at service, then wheres the submission? There is such a huge parallel its insane! The church are the bride, Christ the Bridegroom. In a marriage, men represent Christ (bridegroom) and women represent the church (bride). It doesn't change when you walk in the church building. Men still represent Christ and women the church! SO who should pastor? The church, or Christ. I'm not saying we are to the caliber of Christ at all! We are FAR from it. It just shows the order of how things are. Men represent the bridegroom or Christ. This representation should be leading, not the representation of the followers of Christ.

True, it is the 'opinion of God that matters,' so, if a woman is a pastor, regardless of HOW you feel, you should NOT assume God is NOT using them. You should KNOW that He is, because that's how God works, THROUGH FAITH, and, just look at that woman pastor and how the church is doing things as she IS faith-fullly following Him.

Are they producing 'fruit,' Tuck? That is the REAL: litmus test for IF God is using a woman to pastor a church
The congregation is growing in number, what was once a dead, dying church is now ALIVE and growing in missionaries, tithing, etc.

And, no, tuck, just because a woman is a pastor, it does NOT mean that wives will be thinking they don't need to submit to their husband. Like I said, ask Angela, if she SUBMITS to her husband It's so easy to see this, it's ridiculous, there is NO parrallel, don't think insane, to use YOUR ill-chosen word, tuck

Teaching and preaching the word of God by a woman pastor is not meaning a wife is not in submission to her husband. Comprende ? You say 'huge parallel,' tuck. The truth? NOoooo parallel .

Now, your final words are really supporting women able to pastor because they incorrectly labeling who really IS the bride of Christ , men AND WOMEN are, therefore, they--men AND WOMEN--can pastor a church.

 

[Angela53510]

Greeny, if you ask my husband if I am submissive, he would give a resounding yes!

Does that mean that I am below him, or somehow less than he is? NO!

And he knows I have a ministry, that I am called to teach and preach, and he supports me in that. He didn't in the beginning, but I think it was because he was worried it might go to my head, and I might become bossy. Instead, God has given me a much gentler and quiet spirit, as I grow closer to God and the Holy Spirit transforms me.

My husband realizes that being obedient to God is the most important thing. Fulfilling the call of God on my life has helped our marriage and relationship tremendously.

He is not beneath me in any way, shape or form, by having me teach or preach. Instead, he is submitting to God, and learning from what God has taught me. He also has a tremendous ministry in understanding the Old Testament, and I often get his valued opinion on that topic.

I guess we are mutually submitted to each other, as love demands (Eph. 5:21)

"submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph. 5:21

I praise the Lord for such a godly and caring husband, and the ministry God has given me to help those who are hurting and broken.

 

[tucksma]

Then, ask for forgiveness and drop it, and, by the way, this said in love, too, I did forgive, as, I was NEVER making fun of your name as you thought. I just nickname everyone. But, yes, the Lord leads, it's dropped, tuck.



I don't ignore Scripture, she IS being used by GOD, and, tuck, here ye these words, bro, she HAS been called by God. You assume she is going against God's word, but, I got news for you (good news!) she has been CALLED , HER. GOD HAS CALLED HER to be a woman pastor. Again, NEVER assume. it's going to get you in sooo much trouble, tuck. And, most certainly, do NOT assume that you KNOW what God's doing just because you THINK you understand a passage in the bible correctly.

Obviously, there is much confusion and interpretation differences of 1 Tim. 2:12 and, so, your assumption is, definitely, not going to be right with a lot of folk who are ALL following the Lord--His Spirit in them--in their lives .



True, it is the 'opinion of God that matters,' so, if a woman is a pastor, regardless of HOW you feel, you should NOT assume God is NOT using them. You should KNOW that He is, because that's how God works, THROUGH FAITH, and, just look at that woman pastor and how the church is doing things as she IS faith-fullly following Him.

Are they producing 'fruit,' Tuck? That is the REAL: litmus test for IF God is using a woman to pastor a church
The congregation is growing in number, what was once a dead, dying church is now ALIVE and growing in missionaries, tithing, etc.

And, no, tuck, just because a woman is a pastor, it does NOT mean that wives will be thinking they don't need to submit to their husband. Like I said, ask Angela, if she SUBMITS to her husband It's so easy to see this, it's ridiculous, there is NO parrallel, don't think insane, to use YOUR ill-chosen word, tuck

Teaching and preaching the word of God by a woman pastor is not meaning a wife is not in submission to her husband. Comprende ? You say 'huge parallel,' tuck. The truth? NOoooo parallel .

Now, your final words are really supporting women able to pastor because they incorrectly labeling who really IS the bride of Christ , men AND WOMEN are, therefore, they--men AND WOMEN--can pastor a church.

So are you not assuming when you say God is using them? Cause last I checked God doesn't let you know who is being used and who isn't.

I look at scripture to make an opinion of is a women being used, you ASSUME she is being used.

 

[tucksma]

And ask forgiveness for what?? I didn't do anything to you.

 

[tucksma]

Wouldn't God's words mean what they say ? ?GreenNice? anyway, lets see if God's words agree. ....


Huldah ? What do you have to say about her. The men wanted to know what God's words say; yes ? They were not educated enough to understand or read it even.

The book they found : God's words. They took it to her. And she told them what it said. She taught it to them. And her title was a prophetess .

That is either a fact or not. It's either written, or not.

She was quoting God. "Thus saith the Lord" in v 24 shows that. She wasn't teaching them, she was saying what God said. She didn't comment on it. She didn't give them tips. She stated what God said. Its the concept that when you are in a group and a women reads the bible, if you learn something from her reading she didn't teach you anything. God did. Theres a difference.

 

[GreenNnice]

I had, it was only brought up because the highway man brought it up.

Alright finally we agree on something, never assume. What are we doing? Looking at God's word to make a stand. -not assuming.

You are looking at a women as a pastor and assuming God is using her. -assuming.

You look at the world and make an opinion, we look at scripture and agree with his word.

The logic of "well God's put a women as pastor so it most be ok" is like saying "well God's let gays get legal so it must be okay"

If someone wants to go against God they can. It happens all the time. Its the same thing with women pastors. They are going against him. Its like Kain and Able. Both tried supporting God, but Kain did it "his way". Women are doing it "their way" right now. Are they trying to support God? Absolutely. So was Kain. Are they doing it how God stated he wants it done? NOPE.

We don't assume, we look at scripture. You ignore scripture and assume she is being used.

So are you not assuming when you say God is using them? Cause last I checked God doesn't let you know who is being used and who isn't.

I look at scripture to make an opinion of is a women being used, you ASSUME she is being used.

NO!

I am not assuming, I have FAITH that God is using that woman as a pastor, tuck. =======


natolator, like i said, 'prophesy' does not mean 'teach.' I can understand what you're saying and yes, it IS teaching by Huldah, but, it's prophesying, and, where she does prophesying in Chronicles is not in place of worship either.

'Course, it can be argued that 1 Timothy 2 is not speaking of a specific place of worship but is just telling people of Ephesus HOW to worship. It can be argued quite well ,too, as Truth . God says men should "LIFT HOLY HANDS EVERYWHERE..." And , 'everywhere' means a lot more than just a church setting, does it not

Again, the Lord leads. But, it's His call on a woman to become a pastor that is without refute, He CAN do that.

But, prohesy? uh-uh. That is NOT teaching, it is predicting the future as God would have us relate to others.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Like is written, there is neither male nor female in Christ. .

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. How many times do we have to say that this verse has NOTHING AT ALL to do with ministry in the church.

It is telling the church that when it comes to salvation, no one is excluded. The context of the verse is NOT MINISTRY so please stop using it to claim evidence for women in ministry.