Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?

[zone]

Thank you Zone, go in peace.

and you as well ellis

 

[Abiding]

It is that negativity thaty shrivels my spirit, and NO, I was not faking. I am only here to see if there were any godly replise and surprise, surprise, Zone was kindly, for which I thanked her.

Negativity? I dont think so Mr Therapon. Yes you were fishing for surprise. Heres the thing, to disagree with
someone and explain why is exactly what this forum is for.

To divide over it is an altogether different thing. Some may. I dont. Srivel away i spose if you cant take it
because this is how it is here, was like this before i came and will stay the same as long as its a discussion
forum. Many here are in whatever position they are in.

Maybe you are used to teaching. See its standard to have a class be sat and organized in that venue.
Not here tho. Go back to just teaching, or put up with the reality of what this venue brings.

 

[Pilgrimer]

It's good to see that this thread has toned down to a less heated level. <smile>

This is probably my final post, and it is to whomever the shoe fits.

On this forum, my views have been so misrepresented and I’ve been lied about so egregiously that to clear the air, here is my theology, vis-à-vis the Jews.

Contrary to popular belief, the observant Jews of the Christian era do trust in Jesus. They call Him their Messiah and they are looking for Him just like you and I are. They just don’t know that He already came here once to die, and they don’t know His New Testament name because they have been sovereignly blinded by God to the New Testament Gospel (Romans 11: 8). But according to some here, the Jews are lost because they don’t have that head knowledge and aren’t worshipping Jesus according to their doctrine.

During World War II, Menachem Begin was a prisoner in the Warsaw ghetto. He watched as those Nazi butchers drove his parents and 500 other Jews into the Warsaw River and machine gunned them down. As the blood of those precious people stained that river red, they had their hands raised toward heaven and were singing that beautifully touching Jewish hymn, “Oh how we love our Messiah and long for his appearance.” So who do you suppose they were singing about?

If you think for one moment that our beloved Savior who died “not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world” didn’t reach down and save those dying Jews who were calling upon Him by the only name they knew, then you indeed serve a different God than I do.

Personally, I’m saddened by the argumentative, disrespectful, doctrinal arrogance that I have been subjected to while here. Angry in spirit sometimes, but it was not my anger. You believe you are born again because you hold doctrines approved by the group. But salvation is not in your doctrines, it is in having a humble and contrite heart towards God, of which I see little. Where are the fruits of the Spirit, the longsuffering, gentleness, mercy, the true indicators that the Lord has replaced your hearts of stone with hearts of flesh?

Therapon, I truly understand and commiserate with your feelings about the inhumane treatment of the Jewish people, and further, I have actively worked to try to bring to pass the Jewish cry, "never again."

And I know how heart-wrenchingly difficult it is to try to reconcile the God of love and mercy that we know through Jesus ... with the just and vengeful God we know through Moses. But reconcile mercy and justice we must, the Cross demands it.

There were many, many devout and sincere orthodox Jews who were also waiting, and hoping, and praying for the Messiah in the years following the coming of Jesus. And yet, over a million Jews died horrible deaths, including women and children, in a judgment that God had foretold from it's very founding would one day be executed against that nation. Sin is deadly serious, and God will not excuse it.

So while I appreciate and share your heartfelt sorrow over the lives that were lost on the banks of that river, I don't think we can conclude as a matter of doctrine that because they were sincere in their unbelief that it is therefore excused. Which is why it is imperative, and should serve as an impetus, that we as Christians reach out to these people "beloved of God for the fathers' sake," and the whole world, and share with them the Gospel, not that they might be saved from persecution and death, many Christians died in the Holocaust too, but so that they might find eternal life after the death of these mortal bodies. We must recognize their need of Jesus or we are powerless to help them, for without him, there is no hope, either in this world, or in the world to come.

Which is why Jesus has commissioned us to go out into all the world ...

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[doulos]

yeah its pretty bad we do not look inside and say maybe I am wrong

Thank you for providing a perfect example of this in another thread, when you said;

As I said before. God did not blind the jews, they blinded themselves in unbelief!

And the person who replied to you said “God is the one who inspired Romans11:8 so take it up with Him……
According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.”

Yet despite being shown what Scripture actually says you still insist;

It was their blindness which caused them not to believe, they blinded themselves

and then again later in that same thread you said;

God did not blind them, they blinded themselves

So my friend are you going to “look inside and say maybe I am wrong”? Or is this just a case of you saying do as I say, not as I do?

Thanks again for providing such a wonderful example! Kind of reminds of some parents I know who curse like drunken sailors in front of their children, then get upset when their children follow their example and curse too. Isn’t that called hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy
HYPOC'RISY, n. [L. hypocrisis; Gr. simulation; to feign; to separate, discern or judge.]

1. Simulation; a feigning to be what one is not; or dissimulation, a concealment of one's real character or motives. More generally, hypocrisy is simulation, or the assuming of a false appearance of virtue or religion; a deceitful show of a good character, in morals or religion; a counterfeiting of religion.

Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. Luke 12.

2. Simulation; deceitful appearance; false pretence.

Hypocrisy is the necessary burden of villainy.

I rest my case. he comes in and starts what he thinks to be truth. Some people disagree and try to explain why. And instead of discussing, he gets angry and says if we do not listen to him we are wrong.. even goes as far as ignoring people. (like he did me) rolls eyes!

I can’t say as I blame him for ignoring you.

 

[peterT]

Even if I were guilty of your false allegation, which I am not, you would still have a responsibility as a Christian not to return evil for evil. But you actually return evil for good. That's how far out of alignment with God's Word you are in this matter.

But I've seen it before.... this narcissistic personality disorder. Usually NPD sufferers have zero friends, like you, and spend their time issuing proclamations of condemnation upon all who they disagree with as you do. Then when they are called to account for this ungodly behavior, they turn on those calling them to account with ad hominem as you are doing.

It's classified as a mental disorder but often takes the form of the prideful arrogance you are exhibiting. The good news is that cognitive behavioral therapy is available and can help you when you're ready to leave your ungodliness behind to become a more godly person.

No it’s not evil, it’s called rebuke which you don’t seem to like and call evil.

If someone stands up agents doctrine that is wrong and that doctrine is also yours, then we are speaking evil agents the brethren and it’s not loving and not Christ like.

You might be able to manipulate other Christians using scripture like the devil did with Jesus, but it won’t work with me Matt4:4-10

As for the zero friends bro “Ouch” that hurt LOL.

That was like the venomous viper that came out of the fire and fastened on his hand “OUCH that hurt” but don’t worry I shook it off and no harm came to me and it fell back into the fire.

Acts28:3And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.

4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.

5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.

And by the way, you have no idea how many Christians have asked to be my friend on this website.
And if that’s not striking below the belt, I don’t know what is “hypocrite”

As for the humble bit bro, it’s hard to be humble and preach bold as a lion and rebuke them that sin all at the same time, or maybe your interpretation of being humble needs to be adjusted.

Maybe if I humbled myself before YOU and your PULPIT I might be more expectable in your sight.

The book “Islam and the end times” is not worth the paper it’s printed on, and I have read the snippets.

It inspires hatred and racism and having a political agenda, and has nothing to do with Jesus, the word, or the Holy Ghost.

 

[doulos]

.

The book “Islam and the end times” is not worth the paper it’s printed on, and I have read the snippets.

It inspires hatred and racism and having a political agenda, and has nothing to do with Jesus, the word, or the Holy Ghost.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those who recognize the truth of this book will come to recognize it is our duty as Christians to spread the gospel to those poor souls who have never had the oppurtunity to hear the gospel.

 

[peterT]

No peterT he is not being a hypocrite but bearing witness of how you treat your fellow brethern on this forum when they disagree with your doctrine. Of how you use God's Word to condemn your fellow brethern who disagree with you and your doctrine.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

You know brother I love you, forgive you, and will pray for you, and ask others to do the same, that you can come to truly understand what the Love of Christ is and how you should treat your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ even those you disagree with.

God Bless,
1Christianwarrior316

Then you are being a “hypocrite” too, for I have seen you calling brethren “liars” and saying “manmade doctrine” and reweight and twist scripture

Its charitable and Ok for you to rebuke, but it’s NOT charitable and Ok for me to rebuke, you must be special

And this is about me disagreeing with you as much as it is you disagreeing with me, but I like how you try to make it one-sided to try to make it like you have the light.

You know brother I love you, forgive you, and will pray for you, and ask others to do the same, that you can come to truly understand what the Love of Christ is and how you should treat your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ even those you disagree with.

God Bless,
1Christianwarrior316

That’s not a praying bro, that’s you taking a stab and doing your religious traditions of men

 

[peterT]

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those who recognize the truth of this book will come to recognize it is our duty as Christians to spread the gospel to those poor souls who have never had the oppurtunity to hear the gospel.

Have you got any scripture to back that up, or are you just making it up?

 

[peterT]

The woman in Revelation 12 cannot be just christians although it includes them. Verse 1 the woman gives birth to Christ. If it was just the christian church then how was Christ born before the church even existed?
Acts 7:38 KJV
(38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The church according to this verse is referring to Israel. The question is who is the true Israel?
Romans 2:28-29 KJV
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

If they are not just Christian of all nations then God is blessing children of disobedience.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Spiritual Israel is the woman, the obedient,not the disobedient .

And the wrath of God comes on all how don’t believe in him, NOT a place prepared and food. And being nourished.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

And WHAT is there two bodies?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We're just going to have to disagree on that side issue Pilgrimage. I have a wealth of scholarly resources that assert the opposite. No harm done. Peace.

 

[zone]

I have a wealth of scholarly resources that assert the opposite. No harm done. Peace.

hold up hold up.
i don't member you asking me to take part AoK

but, of course i will, if needed.
einsteinzone

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'd like to see you humble yourself peterT. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. The stiff necked arrogance you're displaying here is nothing but your own ego show and it would be fun to downsize it and know I'd be doing you a favor when I helped you pull the Sequoia sized redwood log out of your own eye. Lol.

Until you can experience that joyous day of personal growth, we'll just have to report your dastardly verbal abuse when it crosses the line which is frequently... lol.

 

[zone]

I'd like to see you humble yourself peterT. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. The stiff necked arrogance you're displaying here is nothing but your own ego show and it would be fun to downsize it and know I'd be doing you a favor when I helped you pull the Sequoia sized redwood log out of your own eye. Lol.

Until you can experience that joyous day of personal growth, we'll just have to report your dastardly verbal abuse when it crosses the line which is frequently... lol.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

We're just discussing the Jewish population in the Holy Land after the Jewish-Roman wars, specifically after the Bar Kokhba revolt since that was when it was at its lowest point. It's a side discussion to the larger discussion happening here. My sources assert it was larger than his. That's all.

hold up hold up.
i don't member you asking me to take part AoK

but, of course i will, if needed.
einsteinzone

 

[zone]

We're just discussing the Jewish population in the Holy Land after the Jewish-Roman wars, specifically after the Bar Kokhba revolt since that was when it was at its lowest point. It's a side discussion to the larger discussion happening here. My sources assert it was larger than his. That's all.

oh!
in that case...

Pilgrimer is a her AoK.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Ah. Thank you zone. I had no idea what with the capital P. From what I can tell, she's a smart cookie .

 

[Pilgrimer]

We're just going to have to disagree on that side issue Pilgrimage. I have a wealth of scholarly resources that assert the opposite. No harm done. Peace.

I have found that there tend to be scholars aplenty to support most any view one can imagine.

Seriously though, that's why I tend to focus my studies on historical and archaeological sources, both of which are closer to the times and events ~

Peace to you as well,
In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[peterT]

I'd like to see you humble yourself peterT. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. The stiff necked arrogance you're displaying here is nothing but your own ego show and it would be fun to downsize it and know I'd be doing you a favor when I helped you pull the Sequoia sized redwood log out of your own eye. Lol.

Until you can experience that joyous day of personal growth, we'll just have to report your dastardly verbal abuse when it crosses the line which is frequently... lol.

Not interested in the mote in your eye bro, just you doctrine and your abuse to me which you are allowed to do, but I’m not.

Like I said it’s pretty hard to be humble and preach bold as a lion and rebuke them that sin, at the same time

I'd like to see you humble yourself peterT. It would be like Moses parting the Red Sea. The stiff necked arrogance you're displaying here is nothing but your own ego show and it would be fun to downsize it and know I'd be doing you a favor when I helped you pull the Sequoia sized redwood log out of your own eye. Lol.

Until you can experience that joyous day of personal growth, we'll just have to report your dastardly verbal abuse when it crosses the line which is frequently... lol.

“OUCH” was that abuse and your own ego or rebuke

Why don’t you show me how to be humble?

 

[Abiding]

Not interested in the mote in your eye bro, just you doctrine and your abuse to me which you are allowed to do, but I’m not.

Like I said it’s pretty hard to be humble and preach bold as a lion and rebuke them that sin, at the same time


“OUCH” was that abuse and your own ego or rebuke

Why don’t you show me how to be humble?

Hey bud i got you some salad...fresh

And a computer accessory.

its the newest wireless

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

peterT, now would be a good time to drop it. Moving along...