Christ is God

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
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Yes Christ is fully God.
Good. At least the possibility of that heresy is put to rest.

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. ... The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.”
The English word "begotten" does not capture the meaning of monogenes. There isn't a single English word that does. "One of a kind" is close; I've heard "species-unique" as well. There is no other like Jesus; He is in a relationship with the Father that is neither shared nor duplicated.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.
The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
There's just one nagging problem with your position: Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you be destroyed in your way." Either the Sonship of Jesus did not begin at the Incarnation, or Psalm 2 is not Scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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He is in a relationship with the Father that is neither shared nor duplicated.
"Uniquely begotten" would be equivalent to monogenes. Calvin -- for all his errors -- interprets this correctly: "He calls him the Only-begotten, because he is the only Son of God by nature; as if he would place him above men and angels, and would claim for him alone what belongs to no creature."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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There's just one nagging problem with your position: Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you be destroyed in your way." Either the Sonship of Jesus did not begin at the Incarnation, or Psalm 2 is not Scripture.
Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Proverbs 30:4 uniquely identities the One Who has ascended and to heaven and descended from heaven as the One True God.

John 3:13​
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
in John 3:13 Jesus Christ identifies Himself to Nicodemus as exactly the same and only One Who has descended and ascended. see also Judges 13


--> Christ is God
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
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Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
some other good rhetorical questions based in scripture ---

Who has held the oceans in his hands?
Who has numbered every grain of sand?
Kings and nations tremble at his voice
All creation rises to rejoice

Who has given counsel to the Lord?
Who can question any of his words?
Who can teach, the one who knows all things?
Who can fathom all his wondrous deeds?

Who has felt the nails upon his hands?
Bearing all the guilt of sinful man
God eternal, humbled to the grave
Jesus, Savior, risen now to reign

Behold our God, seated on his throne
Come, let us adore him
Behold our king, nothing can compare
Come, let us adore him



 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
I know, you know, and I hope and pray all know. If any do not, they certainly will. God bless you PH.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,157
5,725
113
Yes Christ is fully God. Too many people focus on that and forget He is also fully human in every way. The Word according to John Chapter 1 is God and is eternal.

Look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have preexistence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14).

Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.

The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
“We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”

the son of God , is the father in heaven revealed to mankind in the flesh so we can know him In Truth. He is the eternal God revealing himself so everyone can know him who believes the gospel

he is eternal. Only he was revealed to us on earth in the flesh at the appoonted time hidden beforehand and also after in the heavens

what I’m saying is

The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; From heaven did the LORD behold the earth; To hear the groaning of the prisoner; To loose those that are appointed to death; To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem;”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭102:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is it’s not that Jesus didn’t exist before it’s just that he was in heaven beforehand came into earth as a man as one of us , then returned to his eternal glory having created tbat intercessor we didnt have that man that never existed

“the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:”

jesus became the solution to what mankind didn’t have but he’s the one speaking it all beforehand from heaven is the thing he would become a man creating an intercessor so now this is the case not like then

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34-35, 37

Now we do have an intercessor and advocate a on our behalf one that is worthy because he is our lord and God who came to save us laying down his glory but taking it up again

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now there is truth not as before

“truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. “

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is judgement now

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;

and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is he is one , God became one of us establishing our intercessor he himself became flesh To intercede Jesus is eternal but there are different stages to his plans for creation so he’s revealed himself in three forms Father in heaven . Son on earth . Holy Ghost in our hearts through faith in the son
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,193
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Brighton, MI
Yes Christ is fully God. Too many people focus on that and forget He is also fully human in every way. The Word according to John Chapter 1 is God and is eternal.

Look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have preexistence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14).

Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.

The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
There are three primary uses for the word logos in the New Testament:

  1. Logos in its standard meaning designates a word, speech, or the act of speaking (Acts 7:22
    ).
  2. Logos in its special meaning refers to the special revelation of God to people (Mark 7:13
    ).
  3. Logos in its unique meaning personifies the revelation of God as Jesus the Messiah (John 1:14
    ).
https://www.logos.com/grow/greek-word-logos-meaning/#meaning
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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Exodus 24:9-11​
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And [there was] under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in [its] clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.

John 1:18​
No one has seen God at any time.
Who did they see?
Who is the exact, visible image of the invisible God?


Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Christ is God
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,157
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Exodus 24:9-11​
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel. And [there was] under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in [its] clarity. But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.

John 1:18​
No one has seen God at any time.
Who did they see?
Who is the exact, visible image of the invisible God?


Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Christ is God
“Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The revelation of Jesus Christ the Lord

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:10, 12-13, 17-18‬ ‭

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last….. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. …He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 3, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
677
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last….. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. …He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 3, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
I was thinking about Jesus being the Alpha and Omega recently brother, and it really is an incredible concept. In our time-oriented world, beginning to end and start to finish define this finite existence. For us as mortal humans, there is a clear beginning and end - our birth and our death.

There isn't a starting point or finish line with Christ. He is "the beginning and the end," eternal. He has always existed, and He will always continue to exist. In fact, Christ is existence; He is life, and our life and all life for that matter consist in Him (Col 1:17).

The finite mind alone cannot grasp the concept of infinity:

1 Corinthians 2:16

New King James Version

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

As Christians, Christ lives within us, and "...the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God" (I Cor. 2: 10). Sometimes, less is more, and short, powerful sentences like @posthuman using "Christ is God" as the title for this forum carries a powerful punch. I couldn't stop thinking about that on the way to work yesterday. "Christ is God" kept rolling through my mind over and over again: so simple yet so profound much like John's great statement that "God is Love" (I John 4:16).

Christ is God

God is Love

Amen!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,157
5,725
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I was thinking about Jesus being the Alpha and Omega recently brother, and it really is an incredible concept. In our time-oriented world, beginning to end and start to finish define this finite existence. For us as mortal humans, there is a clear beginning and end - our birth and our death.

There isn't a starting point or finish line with Christ. He is "the beginning and the end," eternal. He has always existed, and He will always continue to exist. In fact, Christ is existence; He is life, and our life and all life for that matter consist in Him (Col 1:17).

The finite mind alone cannot grasp the concept of infinity:

1 Corinthians 2:16

New King James Version

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

As Christians, Christ lives within us, and "...the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God" (I Cor. 2: 10). Sometimes, less is more, and short, powerful sentences like @posthuman using "Christ is God" as the title for this forum carries a powerful punch. I couldn't stop thinking about that on the way to work yesterday. "Christ is God" kept rolling through my mind over and over again: so simple yet so profound much like John's great statement that "God is Love" (I John 4:16).

Christ is God

God is Love

Amen!
Amen that’s some good thoughts to chew on brother as usual

I am the first

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and the last the one who is and who was and who is to come

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.( two testaments one God revealed at last ) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the one who was

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who is

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 10, 14‬ ‭

and who is to come

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one God revealing himself throughout time until we truly see and know him and his name which supplies life

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
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[HR][/HR]~—•—○— CHALLENGE —○—•—~
[HR][/HR]
Show from scripture that Jesus the Messiah is God.

[HR][/HR]

i'll go first:


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(John 1:1-5)

The Christ is that Word, who pitched His tent with us, came to His own, but wasn't known by them, who loved me, and gave Himself! He is the Light and the Resurrection and the Life!


[HR][/HR]

OK, your turn! Go!!
I'm not going to quote all of the "I am" statements of Jesus in John's gospel, Jesus claimed to be the God of Moses' burning bush with those claims, especially that he is David's divine Shepherd of Psalm 23.
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
677
426
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
The revelation of Jesus Christ the Lord

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:10, 12-13, 17-18‬ ‭
I like how Jesus referred to Himself as the "first and the last" (Alpha and Omega) to John while he was "in the Spirit" in the presence of the glorified Christ. And, what did John "see"?

Revelation 1:12-16

New King James Version

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.

What a remarkable vision, and John does an excellent job helping the reader to capture Christ as God through relating His attributes to ones we can visualize and understand:

His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow

His eyes like a flame of fire

His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace

His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength

Note the use of the word "like" to take Jesus' features here and comparing/likening them to things we can relate with: wool, snow, fire, a furnace, and the sun. I can at least have a picture of the glorified Christ in my mind, and it helps me to understand where and to Whom my prayers are going before in the 3rd heaven (more on that later...). Our God is an awesome God! Jesus came to us as a baby in a feeding trough and died on a cross. In John's vision and currently, Christ Jesus is our all-powerful and mighty Creator who sits at the right hand of the Father.

Jesus reveals that the seven stars and seven golden lampstands are the seven churches detailed in chapters 2 and 3 (Rev. 1: 20). Jesus has specific messages for those churches at that time, and some theologians theorize that these "churches" represent seven different church eras from the early church to the present day leading up to His triumphant return.

"Out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword" relates nicely with Hebrews 4: 12 - "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Jesus' speech is the Word of God, the Bible, and He is that Word personified!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The finite mind alone cannot grasp the concept of infinity:

1 Corinthians 2:16

New King James Version

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
:)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,157
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I like how Jesus referred to Himself as the "first and the last" (Alpha and Omega) to John while he was "in the Spirit" in the presence of the glorified Christ. And, what did John "see"?

Revelation 1:12-16

New King James Version

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.

What a remarkable vision, and John does an excellent job helping the reader to capture Christ as God through relating His attributes to ones we can visualize and understand:

His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow

His eyes like a flame of fire

His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace

His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength

Note the use of the word "like" to take Jesus' features here and comparing/likening them to things we can relate with: wool, snow, fire, a furnace, and the sun. I can at least have a picture of the glorified Christ in my mind, and it helps me to understand where and to Whom my prayers are going before in the 3rd heaven (more on that later...). Our God is an awesome God! Jesus came to us as a baby in a feeding trough and died on a cross. In John's vision and currently, Christ Jesus is our all-powerful and mighty Creator who sits at the right hand of the Father.

Jesus reveals that the seven stars and seven golden lampstands are the seven churches detailed in chapters 2 and 3 (Rev. 1: 20). Jesus has specific messages for those churches at that time, and some theologians theorize that these "churches" represent seven different church eras from the early church to the present day leading up to His triumphant return.

"Out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword" relates nicely with Hebrews 4: 12 - "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Jesus' speech is the Word of God, the Bible, and He is that Word personified!
Amen brother you know what I was noticing about revelation ? The temple construction on the old testement is a pattern of what’s in heaven.

The inner room

“And he made the candlestick of pure gold,( it has three branches on each side of the candlestick ) Their knops and their branches were of the same: all of it was one beaten work of pure gold. And he made his seven lamps, and his snuffers, and his snuffdishes, of pure gold.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭37:17, 22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Those are patterned after Aaron’s garments the priest had to be dressed completely to his feet so the lord didn’t see his nakedness and his service was mostly in the inner room before the candlestick of gold before the lord to shine light in the darkness of the temple

revelation really becomes interesting when you look at the patterns in the law for the tabernacle , high priest , altars and sacrifices , the ark of the covenant , and the layout of the temple the candlestick of gold , the table of shewbread ect all represents things in the nt that are revealed in the heavenly things John shows us

The candlestick and high oreist were always a pattern of Christ and the church he attends and services it was even being foretold in the law itself with those patterns revelation takes place a lot of it in the heavenly temple that’s onows through those patterns in tbe law of Moses .

moses was shown things and then told to make the temple and everything after the pattern he was shown on the Mount by God of the heavenly true tabernacle of the lord where Jesus is now oir high priest and intercessor

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: ( levites ) who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law and prophets make revelation open up and become understandable
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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I like how Jesus referred to Himself as the "first and the last" (Alpha and Omega) to John while he was "in the Spirit" in the presence of the glorified Christ.
it's an echo of Isaiah...

Who has performed this and carried it out, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD—the first and the last—I am He.” (Is 41:4)

Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me. (Is 44:6)

Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I have called: I am He; I am the first, and I am the last.

Surely My own hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand up together.
(Is 48:12-13)

Christ is God, indeed. :)