So once our nature is changed do we then follow Yahweh's instruction? Or continus to transgress it?
CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE
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So once our nature is changed do we then follow Yahweh's instruction? Or continus to transgress it?
Hizykiya said:
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
Future sins can be forgiven through confession to Yahweh:
1 Yahchanan 1:8-9, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
they don't have a smileycon for a thumbs up..........but, consider it done!
Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."
Future sins can be forgiven through confession to Yahweh:
1 Yahchanan 1:8-9, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
they don't have a smileycon for a thumbs up..........but, consider it done!
if the truth is reveal to us that sinning leads to death and God places his commands in our mind and heart why would anyone who is born again continue to sin? it is almost impossible, that is why we must be born again to have that new nature that does the things of GOD if you are born again you are no longer conformed in this world
And since Scripture gives a clear definition of sin:
1 yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
How can one continue to break the Law, which is SIN and be walking in the Spirit? They can not, for that would be trampling the Son of Yahweh underfoot:
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
Yeremyah 7:9-11, "Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal; Lord, follow hinder gods
you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in
your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says Yahweh."
no one will be breaking the law in the spirit because the law wiill be fulfilled in us, that is what righteousness of christ is
It means that I have been changed, I no longer seek the things of this world, I have been freed from the disire and the control of sin.
It doesnt mean I continuse in sin and call it not sin.
Most eople I know claim saved and in Christ Jesus and walking in Spirit and yet they do the same things the Scriptures say not to. I met a man for a business meeting and we talked about his bible study he runs and then befor the day was over he was doing things he said eariler were wrong and he doesnt do. Im not judging but as brothers it is our duty to rebuke eachother and hold eachother accountable as to not let eachother fall into the pit. If I sat and say nothing I will allow my brother to error.
Wha Shaul in walking in the Spirit when he wrote this? (I sure hope so or we are in trouble)
1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
if you are free from sin and have control why do you follow the righteousness of the law instead of christ? that makes no sense for the righteousness of christ is the law is fulfilled inside of you, then why do you try to be righteous in yourself?
I know you are looking at things from a different view point, but look at that verse of Shaul's I just quoted.
I know its not your intent, but the doctrine you are saying is like "since you have been forgiven why not do what ever you want?"
Humbling myself before Yahweh is not being righteous "in myself" it is trying to be the kind of person Yahweh and Yahshua want me to be.
This verse is not about following Yahweh's instructions, its about the jews making their own religion and not submitting to what Yahweh has layed beforethem:
Romans 10:3, "Since they, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from Yahweh, and seeking to establish their own
righteousness, have not submitted to Yahweh's drighteousness."
I was brought up with the doctrine that this verse was saying they wouldnt have faith in Jesus (which they didnt, so it easily fits) but instead only followed the Law. If you know anythinthing (If i remember correctly you know a lil about hte talmud) about Yahshua words the rabbis/pharisees/jew/those of judaism DO NOT follow yahweh's Law, they follow rabbinical law. Shaul grew up a pharisee, he spent most his life in this teaching, this is what he was soeaking against, same as Yahshua did:
Mark 7:7-9, "But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!"
I dont keep Yahweh's Law for self righteousness or to be justified by it, I follow it because it details in complete explanation the kind of person yahweh and Yahshua wants us to be, when I do trangress, I feel guilty and ask for mercy and set my mind in act and in prayer to have the strength to turn from these sins. It has been very fruitful thus far, Yahweh willing it will continue on this path.
PS I do follow the Messiah, I take to heart to do what He said
Josh, you know better than to think that I advocate following the Torah/Law for righteousness' sake. We've been around that mountain several times already, brother.
I'm merely stating that Jesus' words to His disciples is that they should follow the Torah and teach others to do so.
And nowhere did Jesus say stop following the Law. Both faith, love and actual obedience to the Law go hand in hand, or at least they should. They do for me anyways.
I dont know what Paul you have been reading, because that statement is the exact oppisite of the truth:
Trying to follow Law for sole jutification to Salvation is in contradicition.
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
So, in Acts 15, the disciples acted in disobedience to what Jesus told them to do?
(just wondering........is all..........)
H
haz
Guest
As HeRoseFromTheDead said, grace and law are incompatable.
What I see from those preaching the law here, is that we're not righteous unless we obey the law perfectly.
But such doctrines contradict scripture. It's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Often when Rom 3:31 is quoted, it's quoted alone without the previous verses which gives us a totally different picture. So in quoting Rom 3:31 on it's own, it's then incorrectly claimed that to "establish" the law means to obey it perfectly (as the law requires perfect obedience, James 2:10). But those who quote Rom 3:31 all fail to keep the law themselves.
My understanding of "establish" the law is that believers have submitted to God's righteousness (Rom 10:3).
The law is just, holy and good, Rom 7:12. The law is the principles of God. And in submitting to God's righteousness we acknowledge that only He is good, just and holy. We therefore seek His grace, acknowledging that we ourselves cannot attain righteousness through works of the law.
Note also Rom 3:24-28
Being justified freelyby his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
When taking these verses above along with Rom 3:31 we see a very different context to what is claimed by legalists who claim that deeds of the law are required as proof of righteousness.
A Christian's faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Any doctrine that goes beyond this by claiming that obedience to the law is required as proof one is righteous, such doctrines are error.
I've said this before, but I guess I'll have to repeat it. That verse does not say THE law (as in the law of Moses), but simply law. Faith does not establish the law of Moses; it upholds the principal of law. It is based on the fact that requirements of the law of Moses have been accomplished in Christ.
The Paul I read says:
- law is only meant for disobedient and lawless people, not righteous ones
- only disobedient people are under the law of Moses
- believers in Christ are dead to the law of Moses
- those who seek to be justified by law in any way are cursed
- the law of GOD is love which is shed abroad in our hearts through faith
FYI:
Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 .) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 .) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 .) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 .) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 .) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 .) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 .) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 .) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 .) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 .) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 .) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 .) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
now if we follow law as a form of being saved by them we make christ of no effect but putting in rememberance it is the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ and his truth is his righteousness , allways remember it was the grace of our Lord at the cross by his Precious blood disanuling the law of death that Adam our father in flesh had received through the transgresion of disobedience but is is true that faith without works is dead but by your works you will not be saved but it is by the blood of Hamashiach Yeshua Our redeemer His Grace our gift of mercy now the law served as our school master (gal 2:24 ) but was aded because of transgresions (gal 2:19) (gal 2:21) w the law of righteousness in our heart but the problem there is is most of us if not all when we come to christ we have no sense of righteousness , now the righteousness of the spirit of God is soverein never to be disanuled for it will last forever his righteousness not the righteousness of ourselves but of God and how do we come to know Gods righteousness by studying the word of God now the Lord had saith that he sent the prophets daily but the peplr hearkened not doing more evil than their fathers did (jeremiah 7:21-28) now the gospel was established by Jesus Christ and founded upon the prophets and the apostles therefore study the scriptures follow after the righteousness of the Spirit of God wich is Holy and sin has no place therfore sin shall have no place in you no longer . Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever :the scepter of thy kingdom is a right scepter 7 .Thou lovest righteousness and hatest wikedness :therfore God , thy God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above all thy fellows . here s the character of Our Lord , and look at the character we should have : ye that love the Lord hate evil :he preserveth the souls of his saints , he delivered them out of the hand of the wicked (psalms 45:6-7 ,psa 97:10 )now by works we shall not be saved but by faith that Jesus Christ had redeemed us but by faith in jesus we realize he had saved us so we do everything posible to become more in his likeness pleasing him because we love him no more seeing his ordinances as Laws but by following them by faith and love bringing on a transformation in our bodies minds and spirit not by our own will but by Gods Spirit by Laws i mean the righteousness of Our Father in Jesus wich is forever and ever
the Lord hath said thes people honour me with their lips but their hearts are so far away . now this explains alot it says our mouths say one thing but our actions say otherwise , God wants a people that love him to please him how can we please him if we dont even love ourselves by trying our hardestby aligning our speech with our actions not that we would be perfect but with GOd's spirit we can be but as john said if we sin we have a mediator all we have to do is confess to him that is faithfull and true but to come to a full knowledge and walk away that is sin (hebrews 10:26 , peter 2: 20-22) but accept the gift of the holy Ghost and understand the gift is there for renewal if any need help in this area i am preppared to help you in this area to serve God bless....