CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE
- Thread starter Josh321
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H
Hoffco
Guest
We must keep in mind that Jesus is not asking us to keep all the O.T. laws that He had to keep in order to be accepted as righteous. We ,now , keep a different set of laws to be righteous. We must keep 9 of the 10 commandment, we don't keep the sabbath laws, or the dietary and ceremonial laws of the O.T.. We keep baptism in water and communion. We keep a "law of liberty" not the superficial, externals , legalistic laws. Love has always been the goal of the laws of God. Love for God and man. But, keep in mind ,that love is the fulfilling of the laws of God. The "born again" O.T. saint always delighted in the laws of God. It was the wicked O.T. sinners who hated the laws of God. so to day, the sinful, and misguided believers fight the laws of God, because they are not "born of God" so they don't love. Love to all, Hoffco
"you don't want to understand" "you can't get out of" "ignore facts" "blocked your ears". My thinks you protest too much!!
It is only that we want you to know all of God! His law is holy. The new covenant did not wipe out all the old, it wiped out animal blood and changed the priests and temple. God the Father is in the OT, it is good. The law is good. You need not go off the deep end over these things. It is not "waste your time". It is of God.
H
Hoffco
Guest
Josh, Please think for a moment,,, we are both quoting the same Bible,,, right?? right. !! So, how is my verse right ,(and at the same time) your verse is right,.? BOTH verses are right ! Your verse Eph.2:1-10, is right, because, the sinner is dead, no good works will,can, save the sinner, but ,once God saves by Grace(POWER and Mercy) the saved one will be"God's workmanship unto good works" RIGHT? RIGHT ! My verse Jh.3:21 is right, because the sinners has been "born of God" so now the sinners is doing holy works from a holy new heart, RIGHT ? RIGHT ! Think contextually. then you will get the meaning of God's words. Love to ALL Hoffco
yes that is true being born of God we become servants of righteousness, doing things approved of God and i never disagree with that..
C
CarlaMichelle
Guest
i just want to respond to that..when you say this are you referring to the Adventist stance on not eating meat? I found that rumours have spread with in the body of Christ that 7th day Ads forbid the eating of meat, I used to fellowship with some well meaning Adventist that were over the top about the food and looked down on you for eating meat, it was if it caused you to lose your salvation..Obviously you have meet these kinds of people.. I want to clarify something with you now... I eat meat, i tried to become an vegetarian and i hated it, but if I could cook vegetarian I would, not because of the law, but because when i eat vegetarian I feel so healthy.. I live in a Country that is renown world wide for exporting Seafood, we also have a lot of people who get seafood poisoning related illnesses.. Yet I still eat seafood because i love the taste of it and have been brought up on in.. Living healthy is a choice.. It has always been like that within the church.. It is only the few that preach it to others as if it is a salvation issue that bring about misunderstanding.. As an adventist you are not under the Law yo are under Gods grace and blessing and you have freedom to choose.. If I want to live a longer life and lesson my chances of getting sickness and disease then i will change my diet to match that.. The unclean animals in the Bible are still unclean.. Shellfish clean up the rubbish from the sea,oil, fesses corpses, algae etc.. Beleive me i know, my husband works in the Oyster farms here and you don't really know what your really eating when you are eating shellfish.. Its quite disgusting when you think about it..Despite that, for some reason that you or I don't know is that God has given us grace in this area , he has given us all free choice to do as we see fit..We can eat what ever we want an He still loves us, yet some of those things, He knows, are not good for us and can cause us to become very ill.. Pigs have worms living inside their flesh that if are consumed by a human can cause serious or fatal illnesses.. This is all proven.. That is why God said in the first place not to eat them,, because he wanted Israel to be Healthier and stronger than the other races.. they were actually healthier, just look at Daniel, he is proof of that and it became evident to all those around him..The Adventist church members have always been and still are health and fitness orientated people, but for some crazy reason this has been misinterpreted as under the Law.. yet when you look at the world at the moment you can see the growing trend towards healthy eating and living.. they just got the message a little ahead of the rest of the world and have been incorporating it into there life styles.. It should show us all, that God approves of healthy living and recommends that we do so, so that we will be able to avoid the suffering that can come with eating those food types that will cause dreaded and sometimes fatal illnesses.. It also show us that He wants to make available to us the knowledge of how to stay healthy, so that we can stay at our best for our families, our jobs, and partners, husbands and Kids.. if we are healthy we can serve and learn a lot better and that makes us all more affective for him as well. Adventist do not believe that the eating of meat will effect your salvation at all. It will just make you stronger and more effective for the good of others and yourself.. I hope this clarifies this scripture for everyone..
H
Hoffco
Guest
Believers in Jesus must obey Jesus to be saved. Heb.5:9 "And having been perfected, He (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him." Heb. 3 and 4 tell us how the Jews disobeyed god and were lost. The bible tells of many believers who fell from grace and were lost. One way they feel from grace was keeping the Feast days of the O.T.. another way they feel from grace was by sinning away Grace. love to all, Hoffco
G
Graybeard
Guest
What were they doing in the temple?s'actly
Acts 2
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Matthew 26:26-27
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
C
CarlaMichelle
Guest
you know something in a way you are right... when it comes to the love of God.... God is very very Loving and very patient.. but he his a father and he knows that we need to be bought into line when we go off track or out of order.. jUST LIKE A FATHER AND MPTHER DO TODAY.. iF THEY REALLY LOVE THEIR KIDS THEY DISCIPLINE THEM, OFTEN AT TIMES WE DONT LIKE IT BUT IT IS FOR THE BEST.. WELL GOD DISCIPLINES US TOO, HE IS NOT GOING TO KEEP LETTING US GET AWAY WITH SINNING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.. HE WILL PUT HIS HAND ON US AND WE WILL FEEL THAT HEAVINESS OF HIS JUDGEMENT... JUDGEMENT STARTS IN THE HOUSE OF GOD FIRST.. BUT IT IS BETTER TO GO THROUGH THE JUDGEMENT NOW AND GET OUR LIVES IN LINE WITH WHAT THE LORD WANTS THAN TO WAIT UNTIL THE END OF TIME AND COME UNDER JUDGEMENT WITH OUT A SAVIOUR... I LOVE MY KIDS BUT I WONT LET THEM DO WHAT EVER THEY PLEASE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MY KIDS AND GOD IS THE SAME WITH US.. WE ARE THE ONES WHO CHANGED THE LAWS, WE ARE THE ONES WHO PUT OUR OWN SPIN AND INTERPRETATIONS ON THE WORD.. BUT DO WE EVER REALLY STOP AND ASK GOD WHAT HE WANTS FOR US, DOES HE WANT US TO KEEP THE SABBATH OR NOT... NO WE DONT ASK BECAUSE WE HAVE DELUDED OURSELVES INTO THINKING THAT WE ARE RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.. WE THINK THE BIBLE SAYS ONE THING AND WE DONT REALLY CARE WHAT GODS OPINION IS OF IT.. I KEEP THE SABBATH BECAUSE IASKED THE LORD AND HE SHOWED ME THAT THAT WAS THE WAY I SHOULD WALK.. I HAD TO GO AGAINST THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS TO FOLLOW WHAT THE LORD SHOWED ME.. EVERYONE WAS BRINGING SCRIPTURES TO ME TO SAY I WAS WRONG.. BUT NOT ONE PERSON REALLY LISTEN WHEN ISAID GOD SAID THAT HE WANTED ME TO KEEP THE SABBATH.. NO REALLY CARES, THEY ARE FOLLOWING MANS TEACHING AND HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS... IF YOU LOVE SOMEONE YOU ASK THEM THERE OPINION AND THEN YOU LISTEN FOR AN ANSWER.. HOW MANY OF US TREAT GOD LIKE THAT.. HOW MANY OF US ARE ASKING HIM TO SHOW US THE TRUTH AND THEN BELEIVING AND FOLLOWING THROUGH WITH WHAT HE SAYS,, IT IS SO SAD THAT MANY OF US TREAT GOD LIKE HE DIDNT RIGHT THE BOOK.. GOD DOES ACCEPT US FULLY BUT WE HAVE TO REALISE THAT HE WANTS US TO GROW UP AND GET OVER OOURSELVES, HE WANTS US TO BECOME MATURE IN SPIRIT, HE WANTS TO HEAL US EMOTIONALLY AND MENTALLY, HE WANTS US TO BE SOUND AND NON WAVERING SO THAT WE CAN BE LEADERS WITH COURAGE, DEPTH AND TRUTH.. LEADERS WHO KNOW HOW TO EMPATHISE, COMMUNICATE AND BRINGS THE BEST OUT IN OTHERS.. HE WANTS US ALL TO BE LIKE HIS SON JESUS.. A PERSON OF CHARACTER AND SUBSTANCE...SOMEONE WITH INTEGRITY AND GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO HANDLE WHAT EVER THE DEVIL MAY THROW AT THEM.. THIS IS WHO GOD WANTS US TO BE..I KEEP THE SABBATH BECAUSE THAT IS THE DAY THAT JESUS WANTS A DATE WITH ME;0
C
CarlaMichelle
Guest
jesus said that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharisees they would not be saved,,, What a statement the disciples went into shock and said the nwho can be saved..
the pharisee kept the law to the letter and the diciples knew they couldn't do it.. Jesus was obviously tyring to make a point, helping them to realise how much they needed him and God... When we speak of a new heart that I will give them and i will write my laws on there mind, we dont realise that what God is actually saying is this... That he will come and live inside us and in the Power of the Holy Spirit that is abiding in us we will not only learn to keep the law, but we will also know how to love and serve like Jesus did... The Pharisees lacked love, compassion, mercy, kindness, honestly, and humility.. they were harsh and gave God and Gods 10 commandments a bad name.. They ruled over the people extracting all kinds of things from them.. Jesus came to show us all how to walk in the spirit and he showed us how to live day by day with God..Everything he did pleased the father and he is the standard of righteousness that God wants for us to one day obtain..The difference between Jesus and other Rabbis is that he was here to please his Father and to teach his people how to truly live to please God..the Pharisees on the other hand were not, many of them had there own agendas and many were leading people astray with false and misleading doctrines.. Doctrines that fitted in with there own thoughts and opinions.. this is what gave them the upper hand to Restrict Gods people and gain popularity within the Ranks of the jewish councill...
the pharisee kept the law to the letter and the diciples knew they couldn't do it.. Jesus was obviously tyring to make a point, helping them to realise how much they needed him and God... When we speak of a new heart that I will give them and i will write my laws on there mind, we dont realise that what God is actually saying is this... That he will come and live inside us and in the Power of the Holy Spirit that is abiding in us we will not only learn to keep the law, but we will also know how to love and serve like Jesus did... The Pharisees lacked love, compassion, mercy, kindness, honestly, and humility.. they were harsh and gave God and Gods 10 commandments a bad name.. They ruled over the people extracting all kinds of things from them.. Jesus came to show us all how to walk in the spirit and he showed us how to live day by day with God..Everything he did pleased the father and he is the standard of righteousness that God wants for us to one day obtain..The difference between Jesus and other Rabbis is that he was here to please his Father and to teach his people how to truly live to please God..the Pharisees on the other hand were not, many of them had there own agendas and many were leading people astray with false and misleading doctrines.. Doctrines that fitted in with there own thoughts and opinions.. this is what gave them the upper hand to Restrict Gods people and gain popularity within the Ranks of the jewish councill...
The temple was a very large structure with lots of meeting areas for people to gather and fellowship or teach. That is where Jesus taught when he was there.
Walking in the Spirit is not rejecting everything the Spirit says
Mattithyah 5:17-19, "Do not even think gthat I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to establish/fulfill them."
2 times He said He did not come to abolish the Law but most read read it the Law has been abolished through fulfillment. Also, has ALL the Law and prophets been fulfilled? No, there is stil work to be done, the Sacrifice is complete, but the are still priestly duties Yahshua is fulfilling EVERY DAY and the are many "OT" prophecies and endtime prophecies that Yahshua still has yet to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Did heaven and erth pass? Have all things been perfected? No? Than according the THE MESSIAH NOTHING HAS PASSED FROM THE LAW, not even the smallest letter.
19 "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Why would Yahshua say one "will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh" FOR DOING AND TEACHING OTHERS TO OBEY THE LAW" if that was a recipe for the lake of fire?
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?
Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"
Revelation 22:12-14, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
This is the final Scripture give, the Revelation of Yahshua Messiah, the Savior clearly states that those who keep the Laws/Commandments will have right to the tree of life. If you have a problem with this dont argue it with me, you need to argue it with the Messiah.
Mattithyah 5:17-19, "Do not even think gthat I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to establish/fulfill them."
2 times He said He did not come to abolish the Law but most read read it the Law has been abolished through fulfillment. Also, has ALL the Law and prophets been fulfilled? No, there is stil work to be done, the Sacrifice is complete, but the are still priestly duties Yahshua is fulfilling EVERY DAY and the are many "OT" prophecies and endtime prophecies that Yahshua still has yet to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Did heaven and erth pass? Have all things been perfected? No? Than according the THE MESSIAH NOTHING HAS PASSED FROM THE LAW, not even the smallest letter.
19 "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Why would Yahshua say one "will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh" FOR DOING AND TEACHING OTHERS TO OBEY THE LAW" if that was a recipe for the lake of fire?
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?
Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"
Revelation 22:12-14, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
This is the final Scripture give, the Revelation of Yahshua Messiah, the Savior clearly states that those who keep the Laws/Commandments will have right to the tree of life. If you have a problem with this dont argue it with me, you need to argue it with the Messiah.
For one serves the law of sin in and of the flesh only, and if we leave that behind as dead then we serve the Law of God in the Spirit of God by that hidden man of the heart where no sin ever occurs, since all sin is today by Christ condemned to the flesh
Thanks Cultz, much appreciated. Romans 7 and 8
No matter as a man does and thinks is what he will do whether he wants to or not, in other words
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
The above is very clear about self will flesh. I tell you for many a year I tried to stop certain sinful behavior thoughts, And was guilty over and over again, never being able to attain what "I" desired to attain so desperately, to the point of that "I thought God had to have a stomach-ache over my sinful thoughts I did not want. God had to be taking Pepto-Bismal on me by now.
Then God revealed to me that my emotions know no right or wrong and predictably respond to whatever I am thinking about, and thus control my actions and reactions. That is when I saw to learn to walk by the Spirit of God and hear God and do as God says in Love to all.
So now I walk by God's Spirit just as Christ did here on earth.
Are we to continue in sin, No God forbid, or don't we know that we have been Baptized by Christ unto his death, that we should no longer live in Sin? Today now in the newness of Life by the Spirit of God?
Romans 6, pretty clear on this. If God reveals this to you has to me, praying he does if has not yet to you
I had to work my way to see this truth, and come to the end of the energy of my own flesh, waving my white flag, that said I give up, I can't do this. And that is when I heard Thank you from God, now I (God) can, and I went from flesh death to life in the Spirit of God trusting God to do in me what I became aware of that I could never do in self
Except that if you accomplish not to, it can make one self-righteous and I do think Paul had much to say on that in:
[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Does Oil and water mix? Neither does the Letter of the Law and Spirit of God? The letter of was to show us our need for Christ and Christ alone
It does kill the letter of it that kills flesh, that we buy the death of Christ are to be dead first to self, as Paul well puts it:
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
How can we have life without the belief in being dead first. Just as the seed has no life unless it is planted in the ground first then it be dead and life comes forth, new life in the Spirit of God that is, via the resurrected Christ in the Spirit. thank you very much.