Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism
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Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
God has not cast away His people the Jews.
Israel shall never cease as a nation.
God will restore the kingdom to the Jews.
Jesus came unto His own but His own did not receive Him.
The Jews will not see Jesus again until they accept Him as Lord and Savior.
Salvation is of the Jews.
When a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.
The Church does not replace Israel, but Israel is the Church.
Israel as a nation must come to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior which they have not done that yet.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
70 weeks are determined upon Israel, for they have to fulfill these things, and take action to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus.
This is not something that Jesus has to fulfill, but the Jews have to fulfill these things which means the nation of Israel has to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, although Jesus will help them to turn to the truth when He sends them 2 witnesses in the future, and at that time all Jews will be back on their land.
The peace treaty in the Middle East between Jews and Palestinians will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel.
At the end of the 70 weeks Israel must be in the truth, but they are not in the truth so the 70th week could not of been fulfilled.
Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and salvation is still available to the Gentiles so Israel is still blinded in part so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.
The Jews have to fulfill the 70 weeks for they have to take action and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
The 70 weeks is about the nation of Israel getting in the truth which they have not done that yet.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
If Jesus is the one that confirms the covenant in the middle of the 70th week what does the other three and one half days mean which is three and one half years.
And it cannot be talking about Jesus sacrificing His body to give us salvation, for He was cut off in the 62nd week not in the middle of the 70th week.
The 70th week is when God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
Israel as a nation is not in the truth so the 70th week is not fulfilled.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Jer 33:24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
God has not cast away His people the Jews.
Israel shall never cease as a nation.
God will restore the kingdom to the Jews.
Jesus came unto His own but His own did not receive Him.
The Jews will not see Jesus again until they accept Him as Lord and Savior.
Salvation is of the Jews.
When a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.
The Church does not replace Israel, but Israel is the Church.
Israel as a nation must come to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior which they have not done that yet.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
70 weeks are determined upon Israel, for they have to fulfill these things, and take action to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus.
This is not something that Jesus has to fulfill, but the Jews have to fulfill these things which means the nation of Israel has to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, although Jesus will help them to turn to the truth when He sends them 2 witnesses in the future, and at that time all Jews will be back on their land.
The peace treaty in the Middle East between Jews and Palestinians will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel.
At the end of the 70 weeks Israel must be in the truth, but they are not in the truth so the 70th week could not of been fulfilled.
Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and salvation is still available to the Gentiles so Israel is still blinded in part so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.
The Jews have to fulfill the 70 weeks for they have to take action and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
The 70 weeks is about the nation of Israel getting in the truth which they have not done that yet.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
If Jesus is the one that confirms the covenant in the middle of the 70th week what does the other three and one half days mean which is three and one half years.
And it cannot be talking about Jesus sacrificing His body to give us salvation, for He was cut off in the 62nd week not in the middle of the 70th week.
The 70th week is when God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
Israel as a nation is not in the truth so the 70th week is not fulfilled.
Yes, but that's only half of the process.
God's choice of us logically follows our choice of Him.
Our choice chronologically follow His choice of us.
He knew before the foundation of the earth who would freely chose Him, so He wrote down our name in the Lamb's Book of Life ahead of time.
But you still haven't answered my question in post #41.
"Do you think that "free willers" are wrong because we say "we chose God"? Does that seem to you like we are "doing something" to get saved? "
Its a yes or no question
God's choice of us logically follows our choice of Him.
Our choice chronologically follow His choice of us.
He knew before the foundation of the earth who would freely chose Him, so He wrote down our name in the Lamb's Book of Life ahead of time.
But you still haven't answered my question in post #41.
"Do you think that "free willers" are wrong because we say "we chose God"? Does that seem to you like we are "doing something" to get saved? "
Its a yes or no question
The use of the flesh of the Son of man was set aside as holy for a one time event. Just as the period of time when there was a foundation of pagan kings in Israel. Used as a parable for the time period, Just as the time period called the last days the time period we are in. The thousand years like the rest of the metaphors used in that parable use the temporal things seen to reveal the unseen things of God .
We are not of the number like David when thousands died for violating the law of faith. No numbering. Neither days nor people. We walk by faith not by . . . one, two, three all is present and accounted for last day .Not seven days like it took in the beginning. Like in the days of Noah a thief in the night .
There is no promise that God would cloth himself in corruptible flesh signified as sinful for another demonstration.
They not only rejected the demonstration but the one who was working with the Son of man giving him the power to finish their work of one God.
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
From now on we know we him no more. One demonstration of the invisible power .
1 John 2:21-23 King James Version (KJV) I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Looking for the Son? He does not live in temples made with human hands and neither is he served by the corruptible. We are the temple made up of lively stones they make up the spiritual house of God the church . Why look else where to another voice ?
We are not of the number like David when thousands died for violating the law of faith. No numbering. Neither days nor people. We walk by faith not by . . . one, two, three all is present and accounted for last day .Not seven days like it took in the beginning. Like in the days of Noah a thief in the night .
There is no promise that God would cloth himself in corruptible flesh signified as sinful for another demonstration.
They not only rejected the demonstration but the one who was working with the Son of man giving him the power to finish their work of one God.
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
From now on we know we him no more. One demonstration of the invisible power .
1 John 2:21-23 King James Version (KJV) I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Looking for the Son? He does not live in temples made with human hands and neither is he served by the corruptible. We are the temple made up of lively stones they make up the spiritual house of God the church . Why look else where to another voice ?
Here's a simple illustration of why free will does not exist before salvation.
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,” Galatians 5:19 (KJV 1900)
“Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,” Galatians 5:20 (KJV 1900)
“Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:21 (KJV 1900)
The challenge is to find anything that would choose salvation in the flesh. Idol worship comes the closest.
Now, try to find anything that would choose God after being born again.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.” Galatians 5:22–26 (KJV 1900)
God saves us so we can believe and freely love and obey him.
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,” Galatians 5:19 (KJV 1900)
“Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,” Galatians 5:20 (KJV 1900)
“Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:21 (KJV 1900)
The challenge is to find anything that would choose salvation in the flesh. Idol worship comes the closest.
Now, try to find anything that would choose God after being born again.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.” Galatians 5:22–26 (KJV 1900)
God saves us so we can believe and freely love and obey him.
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I so agree. The sad thing is that the same elite planning their 2030 Noahide NWO, were able to brain wash multitudes of Christians with the Freemason supported Zionist Scofield Bible and through Hollywood the unbelievers into the same pessimistic doomsday worldview. I was a Dispee for 23 years until nine years when somebody challenged me on the escape rapture which has holy to me as Mary is to a Catholic so it took me a lot to take that step. As soon as I realized that that was false I realized I had to study the whole puzzle of Dispensationalism. No body had ever told me there were three other main views of revelation. I felt so cheated. After looking into all four I left it all behind. Kelley Varner here did a great short 20 minute talk on Daniel 9.
as your view on Daniel 9 determines if you believe if it's future or past. Anyone interested how this dualistic theology originated can listen to The History of Dispensationalism on soundcloud.
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Yes it is a challenge, but not impossible. That's why only few find the narrow gate that leads to life.
Are you saying that we have free will once we're saved?
Also, you still haven't answered y question in post #41:
"Do you think that "free willers" are wrong because we say "we chose God"? Does that seem to you like we are "doing something" to get saved?
Are you saying that we have free will once we're saved?
Also, you still haven't answered y question in post #41:
"Do you think that "free willers" are wrong because we say "we chose God"? Does that seem to you like we are "doing something" to get saved?
How will He stand on the Mount of Olives if he has no flesh?
"In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east" (Zech 14:4)
At the Ascension, the 2 angels told the disciples "This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven".
vs 9-11 describe the Lord’s Ascension but they also anticipate His return.
He will come back
-in the clouds
-bodily
-in view of people (Rev. 1:7)
-to the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:4)
—the same way the apostles saw Him go.
"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen."
-Rev 1:7
"In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east" (Zech 14:4)
At the Ascension, the 2 angels told the disciples "This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven".
vs 9-11 describe the Lord’s Ascension but they also anticipate His return.
He will come back
-in the clouds
-bodily
-in view of people (Rev. 1:7)
-to the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:4)
—the same way the apostles saw Him go.
"BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen."
-Rev 1:7
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Yes ... how about Adam?
In your Post #30, you claim: "We choose precisely what God wants based on the reasons he places before us."
Did Adam "choose" what God wanted? If so, then God would not have command Adam to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If Adam did not "choose" what God wanted, then your claim that "we choose precisely what God wants" is in error.
God created Adam in His own image (no sin). And God told Adam:
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Why did Adam eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil after God told Adam thou shalt not eat of it?
If God did not want Adam to eat, then Adam did not "choose precisely as God wants".
If God did want Adam to eat, then Gen 2:17 is in error and God's Word is meaningless.
God knowing Adam would eat and God providing redemption for all mankind because of Adam's transgression is not the same as Adam choosing "precisely as God wants". Adam sinned of his own choice.
God allows mankind to resist Him ... to turn away from Him even as He is holding out His Hand to us and calling us to Himself.
We have this life only to not resist Him when He calls us. And God uses the foolishness of preaching to save ... faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. What do we do when we hear the word of God?
If we resist and suppress the truth in unrighteousness, we reap the consequences.
If we do not resist and do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, we reap the blessings.
In your Post #30, you claim: "We choose precisely what God wants based on the reasons he places before us."
Did Adam "choose" what God wanted? If so, then God would not have command Adam to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If Adam did not "choose" what God wanted, then your claim that "we choose precisely what God wants" is in error.
God created Adam in His own image (no sin). And God told Adam:
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Why did Adam eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil after God told Adam thou shalt not eat of it?
If God did not want Adam to eat, then Adam did not "choose precisely as God wants".
If God did want Adam to eat, then Gen 2:17 is in error and God's Word is meaningless.
God knowing Adam would eat and God providing redemption for all mankind because of Adam's transgression is not the same as Adam choosing "precisely as God wants". Adam sinned of his own choice.
God allows mankind to resist Him ... to turn away from Him even as He is holding out His Hand to us and calling us to Himself.
We have this life only to not resist Him when He calls us. And God uses the foolishness of preaching to save ... faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. What do we do when we hear the word of God?
If we resist and suppress the truth in unrighteousness, we reap the consequences.
If we do not resist and do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, we reap the blessings.
And yet, those who are saved and born again do not obey Him.
According to your understanding of Scripture, the only ones who do obey Him 100% are the ones who are not born again.
So you've got those who do "precisely what God wants" not coming to faith and ending up in the lake of fire and you've got those who are saved "so we can ... obey him" being disobedient and yet saved. Hmmm ...
According to your understanding of Scripture, the only ones who do obey Him 100% are the ones who are not born again.
So you've got those who do "precisely what God wants" not coming to faith and ending up in the lake of fire and you've got those who are saved "so we can ... obey him" being disobedient and yet saved. Hmmm ...
Hey Dave.. thanks. Forgive me but your not really making a good case. Well SO much is missing. And its not worth debating for me based on "Making sense out of Daniel’s 70 weeks using the Septuagint. The bible translation Jesus and the disciples used."
Sorry Dave but you state it as if its truth. Its not. What if we just compare genesis to whats written in the Septuagint? Do they differ? Yeah! Its ok? And what happened here.. happened all the other places you posted this. Thanks
Sorry Dave but you state it as if its truth. Its not. What if we just compare genesis to whats written in the Septuagint? Do they differ? Yeah! Its ok? And what happened here.. happened all the other places you posted this. Thanks
And yet, those who are saved and born again do not obey Him.
According to your understanding of Scripture, the only ones who do obey Him 100% are the ones who are not born again.
So you've got those who do "precisely what God wants" not coming to faith and ending up in the lake of fire and you've got those who are saved "so we can ... obey him" being disobedient and yet saved. Hmmm ...
According to your understanding of Scripture, the only ones who do obey Him 100% are the ones who are not born again.
So you've got those who do "precisely what God wants" not coming to faith and ending up in the lake of fire and you've got those who are saved "so we can ... obey him" being disobedient and yet saved. Hmmm ...