Complimentarianism vs Egalitarianism - Role of Women in the Church?
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As in the the bible discussion forum? Of course I have been here since 2012 and I am well aware of the chaos and bloodshed, I nickname this place the field of blood. But you see it is because of all that you see on here that it is all the more important to show his love patience understanding and light because after all the light is most noticable in the dark right?
You see it all begins with the motive of the heart, many come here to either stir up debates or win debates, not all but yes plenty. I am not here to win debates I just simply love debating discussing and learning and growing about the things of God. That is how and why even if I am attacked I know how to respond and not to respond I don't allow my own views ego or emotions to get the best of me, except of course when others are attacked.
If I see it I kind of lose it there, I admit I am not so good at restraining when it comes to the protection of others
You see it all begins with the motive of the heart, many come here to either stir up debates or win debates, not all but yes plenty. I am not here to win debates I just simply love debating discussing and learning and growing about the things of God. That is how and why even if I am attacked I know how to respond and not to respond I don't allow my own views ego or emotions to get the best of me, except of course when others are attacked.
If I see it I kind of lose it there, I admit I am not so good at restraining when it comes to the protection of others
We all value very much the role of women in God's Organization over the millenia! However, those charged with oversight of a congregation are described in the Bible as being males. The 12 apostles of Jesus Christ were all males, and those later appointed to be overseers and ministerial servants in Christian congregations were males. (Matt. 10:1-4; 1 Tim. 3:2, 12) Women are counseled to “learn in silence with full submissiveness” at congregation meetings, in that they do not raise questions challenging the men in the congregation. The women are ‘not to speak’ at such meetings if what they might say would demonstrate lack of subjection. (1 Tim. 2:11, 12; 1 Cor. 14:33, 34) Thus, although women make valuable contributions to the activity of the congregation, there is no provision for them to preside, or to take the lead by instructing the congregation, when qualified men are present. As a result, in my church, women share their faith through comments through a male who presides, but they do not directly address the congregants.
No, they aren't. The two people who are "charged with oversight of a congregation (Timothy and Titus) are males. They aren't "described as being males"; that's just bafflegab.
Phoebe, a woman, was a deacon; that is incontrovertible. Junia, a woman, was an apostle (though I recognize that is not accepted by all). Paul names many women who worked alongside him.
Women are not counseled; rather, Timothy is counseled regarding a specific situation. The rest of your statement is not scriptural.
Scripture says nothing about "demonstrating a lack of subjection" in the way you put it. Nobody is to act that way.
The section in bold is not scriptural. The rest of your statement is assuming that without a specific provision, something is forbidden. Why do you use a computer, when "there is no provision" to use one?
So what does your congregation do when a woman prays or prophesies (1 Cor. 11:5)? Does she have to do so "through" a male?
Phoebe, a woman, was a deacon; that is incontrovertible. Junia, a woman, was an apostle (though I recognize that is not accepted by all). Paul names many women who worked alongside him.
Women are not counseled; rather, Timothy is counseled regarding a specific situation. The rest of your statement is not scriptural.
Scripture says nothing about "demonstrating a lack of subjection" in the way you put it. Nobody is to act that way.
The section in bold is not scriptural. The rest of your statement is assuming that without a specific provision, something is forbidden. Why do you use a computer, when "there is no provision" to use one?
So what does your congregation do when a woman prays or prophesies (1 Cor. 11:5)? Does she have to do so "through" a male?
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Show me one example of a woman apostle or elder, and cut out 1 Timothy 3 and selected other verses, and you might have a point.
Also, show us that women leadership has not tended to lead toward acceptance of homosexual clergy and gay civil unions..that's another issue.
I don't think women can typically separate emotions from reason and that's a big issue when it comes to doctrine and church discipline. I believe they are much more susceptible to giving heavier weigh toward emotions and relationships than males.
But, when it comes down to it, the real issue is Scripture. What does Scripture teach? And, I believe 1 Tim 3 is clear on this issue. An elder needs to be a husband of one wife, and to have his household in order. Paul also indicates that the head of the wife is the man, and the head of the man is Christ, so he establishes familial order in other books.
I would say that women are better in terms of dealing with young people because they are less susceptible to being a sexual predator, though. Of course, most men are not sexual predators either but the tendency is stronger.
By the way, I don't think this prohibition of female elders extends to all leadership positions within the Church. Elders would be the big issue.
Also, show us that women leadership has not tended to lead toward acceptance of homosexual clergy and gay civil unions..that's another issue.
I don't think women can typically separate emotions from reason and that's a big issue when it comes to doctrine and church discipline. I believe they are much more susceptible to giving heavier weigh toward emotions and relationships than males.
But, when it comes down to it, the real issue is Scripture. What does Scripture teach? And, I believe 1 Tim 3 is clear on this issue. An elder needs to be a husband of one wife, and to have his household in order. Paul also indicates that the head of the wife is the man, and the head of the man is Christ, so he establishes familial order in other books.
I would say that women are better in terms of dealing with young people because they are less susceptible to being a sexual predator, though. Of course, most men are not sexual predators either but the tendency is stronger.
By the way, I don't think this prohibition of female elders extends to all leadership positions within the Church. Elders would be the big issue.
I think it might help if we clarify and distinguish the words and roles here. Now it is true that the word apostle means follower or student and Mary was certainly this but she wasn't one of THE apostles. Mainly she was a disciple and while the words are similar they are also different.
A disciple is one who learns from the teacher a student who follows the teachings, an apostle does the same but is also a messenger one who goes out and teaches the teachings which is why mary went to declare his resurrection but you never see her teach.
You see women preaching the good news but you don't see them teaching because back then teaching required the correct authority to teach just like how I love to study bible prophecy and can speak of it but to be an actual teacher I would need the correct training and authority for it.
A disciple is one who learns from the teacher a student who follows the teachings, an apostle does the same but is also a messenger one who goes out and teaches the teachings which is why mary went to declare his resurrection but you never see her teach.
You see women preaching the good news but you don't see them teaching because back then teaching required the correct authority to teach just like how I love to study bible prophecy and can speak of it but to be an actual teacher I would need the correct training and authority for it.
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