This is not how the Hebrew writer applied this text. He expressly says it was speaking of Jesus.
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This is not how the Hebrew writer applied this text. He expressly says it was speaking of Jesus.
A
atwhatcost
Guest
God created time and space. (I think that's connected to transcend, but I don't quite understand transcend to know for sure.) Jesus really did come down at a particular time in a particular place, so for those 33 years, he wasn't beyond time and space, he was in it. For that time, we can past-tense God. And, while here he was capable of sinning, but he never did.
A thought occurred to me in discussing the trinity. Anything eternal is part of God. Anything that is part of God, is God.
Jesus is the word, the outspoken intent, message, expression of the Lord into creation. If Jesus was the Father, then he would not be distinct or different, he would be just the Father is duplicate.
Jesus says He did not know various things, so His knowledge as expressed on earth was limited. Now I have no problems with this, because I am not the one defining Jesus or the Holy Spirit or the Father, I am merely pointing out what they say about themselves or each other. In a real sense God could not sin, but I think that is His choice, it is part of who He is, what holiness actually is, the fantastic reality he could be evil, but He chooses not to be. We are not like that, we so easily choose to sin, to fall, and this is what makes us fallen, so lost and yet so close to being right.
What also helped me was the idea of the bible and its failure. A book can only convey the impressions of people along with a description of the events. Jesus is the living message, the very creative power of the Living God. So the message could be adjusted to the situation when questioned, be put into perspective, not like a book. God could not dictate to us his perspective, because it is perfect and would not work. We need failed man, expressing failed understanding of a Holy God, to understand how far we are from who He is.
The clues are the decision points and failure in our lives are different than Gods, so we dismiss the wrong things and argue about things that do not matter that much.
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L
Lifetrack
Guest
If i read it well this text is about Salomon, Jezus will be part of the same descendants (family)
The Hebrew writer in 1:5 quotes this passages and shows that the statement was spoken in regards to Jesus.
S
Sirk
Guest
I understand that but....God fore knew. Either that is true or it isn't and I think it matters a lot as to whether Jesus could have sinned. It just wasn't in the cards.
-2 Samuel 7:14, I still will have to disagree, it's about Solomon not Jesus,
12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee,
which shall proceed out of [thy bowels], and I will establish his kingdom.
“Then Solomon sat on the throne of the [Eternal] as king instead of David his father”
-Solomon came from Davids bowels and sat on throne of the kingdom.
But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name,
because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.
-Solomon built the temple, a place for Gods name, king over the kingdom.
13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
“I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed
will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations” (Psalm 89:3-4).
-verse says all generations
2 Samuel 7:14, "I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity,
I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:"
but they committed iniquity like God knew they would.
And he set a graven image of the grove that he had made in the house, of which the Lord said to David,
and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all tribes of Israel,
will I put my name for ever:
Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house,
which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be
a proverb and a byword among all people:
17And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all
that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
18Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted
with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you,
and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house,
which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be
a proverb and a byword among all nations.
-Jesus has yet to take over the kingdom from David and son.
Then you will have to take that up with the Hebrew writer. He is the one who by inspiration applies it to Jesus, not Solomon or David.
I have to agree with sirk. P brings up a good point in the article he cited. "If Jesus could have sinned, how could he be truly God?"
Here are a couple of articles I found from gotquestions.org.
Can God sin?
Could Jesus have Sinned?
Go and get thee in unto king David, and say unto him, Didst not thou, my lord, O king,
swear unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me,
and he shall sit upon my throne? why then doth Adonijah reign?
swear unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me,
and he shall sit upon my throne? why then doth Adonijah reign?
And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy,
according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee;
and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee;
and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
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Well what a good question!
Its almost the equal question to how is Jesus both man and God?
We know that its possible and scripture affirms it, but how it is so is a difficult and tough endeavour.
Well.... in my opinion I do not believe he 'could' sin and can sin.
My reason of defence is that Jesus is God not merely comes from God but is God. And if anybody here holds to biblical and orthordox teaching we would affirm that God cannot sin. and yes Jesus is God!!!!
Lets look at 3 types of wills biblically speaking.
1) Adam - Unfallen, and has a free will. Free towards good and free toward evil. Created in a state of innocence, but not in a state of holiness, as it so often is assumed and asserted. Therefore Adams will was in a state of moral uprightness. which inturn is to say that Adam has no constraining bias in him toward good or evil.
Conclusion: Could Sin or Could not Sin
ner (you and me) - Born with a will that is not in a condition of moral uprightness as of Adams because the bible so vividly describes our hearts as deceitful, wicked, children of wrath BY NATURE, lovers of darkness, enmity and hostile towards God, fall short, serves fleshly desires, worldypassions, lusts of eyes, does not retain God in thinking and etc etc a whole lot more. LOL Quote from Martin Luther: "What a fine free will we have ".
Conclusion: Can do nothing but sin
3) Jesus Christ - Conceived of the Holy Spirit, and was not born a state of moral uprightness merely but rather born in a state of complete and utter HOLINESS! Therefore did not have the sin nature passed down as he was born of a virgin, and conceived by the HOLY Spirit. Christ is biased toward that which is hoy, perfect, good, because side by side with that is his ETERNAL DEITY.
Conclusion: Can only do that which is pleasing to God because he IS THE INCARNATE GOD HIMSELF.
Just because he was tempted in no way does that mean he was struggling with it, for he had no desire for it. His desires were perfect and are perfect, good, holy, loving. And if he can sin he would cease to be God because God cannot sin.
TRUE LIBERTY IS NOT THE POWER TO LIVE AS WE PLEASE, BUT TO LIVE AS WE OUGHT. Jesu Christ our Lord and Saviour, the eternal God revealed and manifested to us, in like manner.
Its almost the equal question to how is Jesus both man and God?
We know that its possible and scripture affirms it, but how it is so is a difficult and tough endeavour.
Well.... in my opinion I do not believe he 'could' sin and can sin.
My reason of defence is that Jesus is God not merely comes from God but is God. And if anybody here holds to biblical and orthordox teaching we would affirm that God cannot sin. and yes Jesus is God!!!!
Lets look at 3 types of wills biblically speaking.
1) Adam - Unfallen, and has a free will. Free towards good and free toward evil. Created in a state of innocence, but not in a state of holiness, as it so often is assumed and asserted. Therefore Adams will was in a state of moral uprightness. which inturn is to say that Adam has no constraining bias in him toward good or evil.
Conclusion: Could Sin or Could not Sin
ner (you and me) - Born with a will that is not in a condition of moral uprightness as of Adams because the bible so vividly describes our hearts as deceitful, wicked, children of wrath BY NATURE, lovers of darkness, enmity and hostile towards God, fall short, serves fleshly desires, worldypassions, lusts of eyes, does not retain God in thinking and etc etc a whole lot more. LOL Quote from Martin Luther: "What a fine free will we have ".
Conclusion: Can do nothing but sin
3) Jesus Christ - Conceived of the Holy Spirit, and was not born a state of moral uprightness merely but rather born in a state of complete and utter HOLINESS! Therefore did not have the sin nature passed down as he was born of a virgin, and conceived by the HOLY Spirit. Christ is biased toward that which is hoy, perfect, good, because side by side with that is his ETERNAL DEITY.
Conclusion: Can only do that which is pleasing to God because he IS THE INCARNATE GOD HIMSELF.
Just because he was tempted in no way does that mean he was struggling with it, for he had no desire for it. His desires were perfect and are perfect, good, holy, loving. And if he can sin he would cease to be God because God cannot sin.
TRUE LIBERTY IS NOT THE POWER TO LIVE AS WE PLEASE, BUT TO LIVE AS WE OUGHT. Jesu Christ our Lord and Saviour, the eternal God revealed and manifested to us, in like manner.
L
Lifetrack
Guest
In Heb. 5:5 he appeals to this same text again saying this, "So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; Also Paul quotes this same text in Acts 13:33 regarding the resurrection of Jesus, "this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm, “‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’" Both of these inspired writes tell us that 2 Samuel 7:14 is speaking of Jesus.
We may be asking the wrong question. What is sin? It is taking in-appropriate action that causes harm.
Now if you can see everything, know everything, see the consequences of every action, how everything nits together, to sin would be to purposely destroy the very thing you wished to do. Once you start this behaviour, no boundaries or consistency then everything falls apart, because nothing is causely related. The Lord shows in creation he is infinitely interested in cause and effect, nothing is truly random, so our perception of what sin is and how it works is very limited.
So Jesus could have sinned else he did not have free will, but from the perspective of knowing the Father, why would he sin, He had fellowship with the Father who encouraged Him all the time.
Now if you can see everything, know everything, see the consequences of every action, how everything nits together, to sin would be to purposely destroy the very thing you wished to do. Once you start this behaviour, no boundaries or consistency then everything falls apart, because nothing is causely related. The Lord shows in creation he is infinitely interested in cause and effect, nothing is truly random, so our perception of what sin is and how it works is very limited.
So Jesus could have sinned else he did not have free will, but from the perspective of knowing the Father, why would he sin, He had fellowship with the Father who encouraged Him all the time.
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Perhaps I should clarify a point here lest someone misunderstand. The Hebrew writer draws from two separate OT passages in 1:5. The first is from Ps. 2:7 which reads "I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you." He than quotes from 2Samuel 7:14, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," although the Hebrew writer does not quote the entire text either time.
E
Eva1218
Guest
There is no mention of JESUS committing any sin. I do believe JESUS was tempted in the flesh as we are by satan to commit sin. Now think on this. What is sin? Sin is the act of going against the teachings, commandments, covenants etc.. of GOD. If JESUS being GOD the SON how could HE sin against HIMSELF. One may say HE could sin against the FATHER. When JESUS stated HE is ONE with the FATHER (John 10:30), meaning in agreement.
While in the flesh yes JESUS had freewill this is why HE was able to be tempted meaning the opportunity was present. Now when JESUS stated in Luke 22:42 not MY Will but THY WILL be done, was not because JESUS did not want to give HIS LIFE as many believe. It was because JESUS knew and understood HE would be separated from the FATHER. This is why when JESUS Prayed in the garden of Gethsamne HE sweated Blood (this is the first time JESUS gave HIS BLOOD for mankind) but many see the first time as the cross. At the cross JESUS shed All of HIS BLOOD. Then notice angels appeared and ministered to HIM to Strengthen HIS Spirit for what was to come both Spiritual, Physical, Mental and Emotional. This only JESUS could do for mankind.
In the Gospels notice it states from the sixth hour to the ninth hour there was darkness (no LIGHT) then JESUS cries out with a loud voice MY GOD MY GOD why has thy forsaken ME, now I believe JESUS spoken in tongue as it states the language was interpret grasp that for it was very personal and painful to be separated from the FATHER. This is why JESUS says HE will never leave us nor forsake us..very Powerful statement. So again when JESUS says not My Will (not being separated from the FATHER) but THY WILL (separated from THE FATHER). keep in mind this is what the world must go through either being separated from GOD or being with GOD.
Now let's go deeper why did the separation have to take place? Because JESUS standing in our place had to be judged as sin for us. The FATHER no longer seen HIS SON but the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is why when we die and appear at the Judgment seat of CHRIST. Because The FATHER already has judged the sins of the world. Notice the position of CHRIST HE sits at the Right Hand of the FATHER.
What JESUS has done for mankind is breathtaking.
Blessings!!!!!!!
While in the flesh yes JESUS had freewill this is why HE was able to be tempted meaning the opportunity was present. Now when JESUS stated in Luke 22:42 not MY Will but THY WILL be done, was not because JESUS did not want to give HIS LIFE as many believe. It was because JESUS knew and understood HE would be separated from the FATHER. This is why when JESUS Prayed in the garden of Gethsamne HE sweated Blood (this is the first time JESUS gave HIS BLOOD for mankind) but many see the first time as the cross. At the cross JESUS shed All of HIS BLOOD. Then notice angels appeared and ministered to HIM to Strengthen HIS Spirit for what was to come both Spiritual, Physical, Mental and Emotional. This only JESUS could do for mankind.
In the Gospels notice it states from the sixth hour to the ninth hour there was darkness (no LIGHT) then JESUS cries out with a loud voice MY GOD MY GOD why has thy forsaken ME, now I believe JESUS spoken in tongue as it states the language was interpret grasp that for it was very personal and painful to be separated from the FATHER. This is why JESUS says HE will never leave us nor forsake us..very Powerful statement. So again when JESUS says not My Will (not being separated from the FATHER) but THY WILL (separated from THE FATHER). keep in mind this is what the world must go through either being separated from GOD or being with GOD.
Now let's go deeper why did the separation have to take place? Because JESUS standing in our place had to be judged as sin for us. The FATHER no longer seen HIS SON but the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is why when we die and appear at the Judgment seat of CHRIST. Because The FATHER already has judged the sins of the world. Notice the position of CHRIST HE sits at the Right Hand of the FATHER.
What JESUS has done for mankind is breathtaking.
Blessings!!!!!!!
I agree with most of what you ave to say her but consider this about you second paragraph. Jesus, as God had the right to decide that humanity was not worth the sacrifice. He could have decided not to go through with the cross. Remember what he told Peter in the garden? "Don't you think that I could call on my Father, and he would send me more than twelve legions of angels now?" Matthew 26:53. And he would have been justified in doing so but for the fact that he had sworn an oath to Abraham and made a promise to David. The Hebrew writer tells us in chapter that because of this oath and the promise the cross became a reality.
Q: Could Jesus have sinned?
A: No. Christ could not have sinned. Christ did not join with a human soul. Christ merely chose to limit His Omniscience but He was still 100% God and a part of the Godhead. God is not capable of doing evil. This is Bible Basics 101.
A: No. Christ could not have sinned. Christ did not join with a human soul. Christ merely chose to limit His Omniscience but He was still 100% God and a part of the Godhead. God is not capable of doing evil. This is Bible Basics 101.