Dealing with the idea of Hell

[Jason0047]

"The blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)

"When you were dead in your sins, and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins. " (Colossians 2:13)


Jason, all means all.

When a person becomes a Christian, his sins are forgiven and paid in full by Christ. There remains no further payment that can be made for them - no further expiation required.

No, it is reference to all past sin (and not future sin) because what would be he purpose of confessing sin so as to be forgiven of sin in the following two verses as mentioned in 1 John 1:9 if you were forgiven of all future sin?

Granted, John tells us to "sin not" as per 1 John 2:1. So confessing sin is only if sin does happen to arise in a believer's life and they need forgiveness. John is not saying we can continue in sin with the thinking we are saved.

Read 1 John 2:4. It says he that says he knows him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

 

[Jason0047]

Hang on I'll try to answer for Jason based on his arguments earlier in the thread.

"Well you see all doesn't actually mean all. According to this website (www. Twistingscripture. Com) when the Bible says "all," what it actually means is "whatever fits my current narrative."

John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

Acts 22:15 For thou [Paul] shalt be his witness unto ALL MEN of what thou hast seen and heard.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of ALL MEN for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

So you would have me believe that these verses above are talking about all men in existence?

 

[tribesman]

No. I believe God hates the sin and loves the person. For we are not to hate people. We are commaned to love. That is why God does not hate people. God cares and loves everyone. For He died for us while we were yet sinners. Yes, God does not condone sin, and He does not like it when a person sins (And can even get angry at people for their sin), but He loves all people and desires all people to simply repent of their sins. For God so loved the world...

We are talking about God's wrath. The hatred of God is different than those of men. There is a holy hatred, indignation and wrath, from God, upon those who do not obey the gospel. It abides upon those who will not repent and believe the gospel. As far as WBC is concerned, they have preached this hatred, and there is no wrong with that. It's just that they have singled out certain groups of sinners, primarily homosexuals, whereas the wrath of God is revealed upon all sorts of impenitent sinning.

 

[Jason0047]

Anyways, getting back on topic:

Before the fall, human beings had the potential to become immortal. They had the potential to become something more than what they were. As a consequence of the rebellion in Eden, this opportunity was taken away.

God wanted human beings to be immortal. He still does. He wants to establish a relationship with us that will bring glory and joy to both parties forever. Yet God cannot endure unrighteousness forever. Until a solution can be found that will undo the Eden rebellion, God cannot grant immortality to human beings. He was thus forced by his own nature to banish us from paradise.

This is the bad news the Bible gives us, which serves as the backdrop for the good news of eternal life available through Christ.

For Jesus alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16);
And it is only thru Jesus Christ whereby we can have the GIFT of eternal life (Romans 6:23).


Source:
http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/defining-conditionalism-conditional-immortality/

 

[Jason0047]

We are talking about God's wrath. The hatred of God is different than those of men. There is a holy hatred, indignation and wrath, from God, upon those who do not obey the gospel. It abides upon those who will not repent and believe the gospel. As far as WBC is concerned, they have preached this hatred, and there is no wrong with that. It's just that they have singled out certain groups of sinners, primarily homosexuals, whereas the wrath of God is revealed upon all sorts of impenitent sinning.

Merciful Truth : Does God Hate You, Sinner?
(Please take note that I may hold to other beliefs that this website might put forth; I merely agree with the article).

 

[Jason0047]

It is necessary, however, to take seriously God’s righteous indignation against sin and sinners. Millard Erickson writes, “Although God is not the enemy of sinners nor does he hate them, it is also quite clear that God is angered by sin.” God’s wrath (orgē) is “revealed from heaven against godlessness and unrighteousness of men” (Romans 1:18, ESV). Notice that His wrath in these verses is not against godless and unrighteous people, but against their godlessness and unrighteousness. In this way, it would be accurate to say that God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.

According to Romans 3:25-26, the Cross of Christ demonstrates God’s righteousness. According to Romans 5:8, the Cross of Christ demonstrates God’s love, not His hatred, for sinners. In John 3, we learn that God sent His Son into the world to save the world, not to condemn the world (v. 17). God’s wrath is already on all people because of their sin; and only those who believe in the Son will have eternal life (v. 36). But God’s wrath should be distinguished from this idea that He hates sinners. Wrath is God’s settled disposition against sin, which flows from His righteousness and holiness. In this way, our condemnation is already set because of our sin. But out of love for these objects of wrath, God acted to rescue those who were already perishing and under His condemnation.

At the Cross, God judged His only Son, one who had no sin. He did so out of love for sinful people. These are the actions of one who loves sinners, not one who hates them.


- See more at: Does God Hate Sinners?

 

[Jason0047]

In any event, if you want to continue this discussion, I have started a thread on this here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/101725-god-loves-sinner-hates-sin.html

 

[TMS]

Hebrew word is Hades
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65
If you use your preconceived imagination you can make it a place underground where you are alive and burning.
The concept of Hell is a catholic invention to scare the living to do what they wanted them to do. (Give money). But from my study it is the place of death and the suffering that come with death. A grave that is a pit for the dead. An inmate of death, or a retreat from life.
In the New Testament
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Hades
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11
You could stretch the meaning to be a place you are conscious in everlasting punishment. But the result is eternal; people will suffer for all eternity, for ever and ever, because they are not with Jesus and are dead. Or could it be everlasting punishment of unconsciousness.

 

[Jason0047]

Hebrew word is Hades
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65
If you use your preconceived imagination you can make it a place underground where you are alive and burning.
The concept of Hell is a catholic invention to scare the living to do what they wanted them to do. (Give money). But from my study it is the place of death and the suffering that come with death. A grave that is a pit for the dead. An inmate of death, or a retreat from life.
In the New Testament
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Hades
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11
You could stretch the meaning to be a place you are conscious in everlasting punishment. But the result is eternal; people will suffer for all eternity, for ever and ever, because they are not with Jesus and are dead. Or could it be everlasting punishment of unconsciousness.

The key question is: What is more consistent with God's love?

For the Scriptures reveal that we can know God's judgments are true and righteous.

Psalm 119:75 NRSV
I know, O Lord, that your judgments are right,
and that in faithfulness you have humbled me.

 

[Kaycie]

Whether someone goes to heaven or hell is God's judgement to make. I don't know every situation He will consider, but I do know that He will judge fairly and without favoritism, according to the knowledge and ability of each individual. The bible says that He wants everyone to be saved, even though all won't be. I know that there will be no soul going to hell that can truthfully say that they did not know what God wanted them to do, therefore it's not fair. Because they would have had to know the good they ought to do, then chose not to do it. If God wants everyone to be saved, and He does, He will provide the opportunity. Again it is God's judgment call, and He will judge wisely, not unfairly.

As as for me, I know the good I ought to do is to study His word- for I am capable of doing so, so there is no excuse for me for sure. I am to study it and do what it says to the best of my capability, and to teach and encourage others to do the same. As far as it depends on just me, I have complete confidence in my salvation, because I completely trust that God will do what He said He will do- that if I obey Him He will grant me grace for the times when I miss the mark. And I know better than to take advantage of His grace like some did in Romans chapter six. For I know those who LIVE in sin are in danger of hell fire. But I have full confidence that if I follow His instructions He will save me, because He wouldn't have His Son die for nothing, and who did He die to save? Those who will obey His instructions to the best of their understanding and ability. Do this, and you can have full confidence in your salvation too. There are only two kinds of people- saved and unsaved, righteous and unrighteousness- even though everybody sins. God will still save those who follow Him.

 

[CWJ]

Hello there,

This whole concept of heaven and hell as the destination of the soul after death, is based on traditional teaching that has nothing to do with Scriptural truth.

The word, 'Hell', chosen by the original translators to translate the Hebrew and Greek words (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tararoo), was a middle English word meaning - 'to hide away', and was perfect to describe the place of the dead, or gravedom.

The Scriptures where the word hell is found, when viewed in the light of that words true meaning, can be seen quite clearly to have that meaning and no other. The only difference is when it is the translation of the Greek word, 'Gehenna', in the words of our Lord in the NT, for there it has judgement and fire in view, but relates to the judgement and total destruction which will take place at the end of the age, and not to eternal conscious punishment as a state of the unbelieving dead.

The destiny of the soul at death should pose no problem to us: for the soul, in itself is not immortal, it dies; for the life force which energizes it goes back to God who gave it, awaiting resurrection. The dead, 'in Christ', are viewed by God as being 'asleep in Christ', for there is no consciousness in death.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus, which appears to deny this, is in fact not evidence of life after death at all, or of hell has a place of eternal conscious punishment: but is divine irony; in which our Lord gives an example of the teaching of the Pharisees, in order to show it's total hypocrisy and ridiculous nature, when contrasted with the testimony of ALL Scripture.

Hell, as a place of eternal torment, is a shameful and untrue doctrine, based on a lie.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CWJ]

I really don't want to debate rather Hell Is eternal or not,but this is something that always bothered me. I can't stand the thought of anyone going to hell! The idea is so real to me. I get anxiety thinking about it. A 16 year old boy drowned the other day in a river and I couldn't help thinking, was he saved?? So the question is...As Christians,how do you deal with eternal hell fire? I've know pretty moral people that didn't know Jesus that have died...I can only wonder where their at. I'm no better than them except I have a savior..I look at America and see people mocking God,Mocking Jesus,mocking Christians...No one wants sound docterine anymore. America's rebellion and wickedness has made it hard to even witness to people...I'm getting off track...back to the question! How do you deal with Hell??

Hello there, Jruiz,

This whole concept of heaven and hell as the destination of the soul after death, is based on traditional teaching that has nothing to do with Scriptural truth.

The word, 'Hell', chosen by the original translators to translate the Hebrew and Greek words (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tararoo), was a middle English word meaning - 'to hide away', and was perfect to describe the place of the dead, or gravedom.

The Scriptures where the word hell is found, when viewed in the light of that words true meaning, can be seen quite clearly to have that meaning and no other. The only difference is when it is the translation of the Greek word, Gehenna, in the words of our Lord in the Gospels, for there it has judgement and fire in view, but related to the judgement and total destruction at the end of the age, and not eternal conscious punishment. It has become corrupted by a usage alien to it's original purpose.

The destiny of the soul at death should pose no problem, for the soul, in itself is not immortal, it dies, for the life force which energizes it goes back to God who gave it, awaiting resurrection. The dead, 'in Christ', are viewed by God as being 'asleep in Christ', for there is no consciousness in death.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus, which appears to deny this, is in fact not evidence of life after death, or of hell has a place of eternal conscious punishment, but is divine irony, in which our Lord gives an example of the teaching of the Pharisees, in order to show it's total hypocrisy and ridiculous nature, when viewed in the light of the testimony of ALL Scripture.

Hell, as a place of eternal torment, is a shameful and untrue doctrine, based on a lie.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Tankman131]

Hello there, Jruiz,

This whole concept of heaven and hell as the destination of the soul after death, is based on traditional teaching that has nothing to do with Scriptural truth.

The word, 'Hell', chosen by the original translators to translate the Hebrew and Greek words (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tararoo), was a middle English word meaning - 'to hide away', and was perfect to describe the place of the dead, or gravedom.

The Scriptures where the word hell is found, when viewed in the light of that words true meaning, can be seen quite clearly to have that meaning and no other. The only difference is when it is the translation of the Greek word, Gehenna, in the words of our Lord in the Gospels, for there it has judgement and fire in view, but related to the judgement and total destruction at the end of the age, and not eternal conscious punishment. It has become corrupted by a usage alien to it's original purpose.

The destiny of the soul at death should pose no problem, for the soul, in itself is not immortal, it dies, for the life force which energizes it goes back to God who gave it, awaiting resurrection. The dead, 'in Christ', are viewed by God as being 'asleep in Christ', for there is no consciousness in death.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus, which appears to deny this, is in fact not evidence of life after death, or of hell has a place of eternal conscious punishment, but is divine irony, in which our Lord gives an example of the teaching of the Pharisees, in order to show it's total hypocrisy and ridiculous nature, when viewed in the light of the testimony of ALL Scripture.

Hell, as a place of eternal torment, is a shameful and untrue doctrine, based on a lie.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hey Jason, you got a new friend who can twist scripture with you. Perhaps the two of you could wring it so dry it lacks any truth if you work together.

 

[Ella85]

Hello there, Jruiz,

This whole concept of heaven and hell as the destination of the soul after death, is based on traditional teaching that has nothing to do with Scriptural truth.

The word, 'Hell', chosen by the original translators to translate the Hebrew and Greek words (Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tararoo), was a middle English word meaning - 'to hide away', and was perfect to describe the place of the dead, or gravedom.

The Scriptures where the word hell is found, when viewed in the light of that words true meaning, can be seen quite clearly to have that meaning and no other. The only difference is when it is the translation of the Greek word, Gehenna, in the words of our Lord in the Gospels, for there it has judgement and fire in view, but related to the judgement and total destruction at the end of the age, and not eternal conscious punishment. It has become corrupted by a usage alien to it's original purpose.

The destiny of the soul at death should pose no problem, for the soul, in itself is not immortal, it dies, for the life force which energizes it goes back to God who gave it, awaiting resurrection. The dead, 'in Christ', are viewed by God as being 'asleep in Christ', for there is no consciousness in death.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus, which appears to deny this, is in fact not evidence of life after death, or of hell has a place of eternal conscious punishment, but is divine irony, in which our Lord gives an example of the teaching of the Pharisees, in order to show it's total hypocrisy and ridiculous nature, when viewed in the light of the testimony of ALL Scripture.

Hell, as a place of eternal torment, is a shameful and untrue doctrine, based on a lie.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

If it is based on a lie then you disregard what the bible says.......

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[TMS]

The key question is: What is more consistent with God's love?

For the Scriptures reveal that we can know God's judgments are true and righteous..

Totally agree that whatever the Lord does will be just and true, God is LOVE so whatever is done will be perfect justice. What advantage will God gain from eternally burning the unsaved. Is their any sin that i can do for 100 years of this life that deserves to be burnt slowly and suffer for ever and ever or for 10 000 years.
I believe God will not inflict any pain or suffering but will appear before the guilty in all His glory and their hearts will burn with a guilty conscious and being unrighteousness they will suffer until Gods glory destroys them.

 

[Jason0047]

Hey Jason, you got a new friend who can twist scripture with you. Perhaps the two of you could wring it so dry it lacks any truth if you work together.

Well, I believe Heaven and Hell are real places. I also believe Lazarus and the Richman story to be 100% literal and true. That is where we appear to differ. As for the Lake of Fire: It appears we agree on that. And thank the Lord indeed for that. For she believes it is a place where the wicked perish like the Bible says (Which is the important issue of whether or not God is just or not). For why call it the Second Death if it is not related to the First Death?

 

[Jason0047]

Totally agree that whatever the Lord does will be just and true, God is LOVE so whatever is done will be perfect justice. What advantage will God gain from eternally burning the unsaved. Is their any sin that i can do for 100 years of this life that deserves to be burnt slowly and suffer for ever and ever or for 10 000 years.
I believe God will not inflict any pain or suffering but will appear before the guilty in all His glory and their hearts will burn with a guilty conscious and being unrighteousness they will suffer until Gods glory destroys them.

Yes, I agree. While we may not agree on the other points about the afterlife. I think the most important point to get about how God executes Judgment is that it is based on love. For God is love. Others here may not understand that yet. But I am so thankful to the Lord that you do see that. For who cannot read 1 Corinthians 13 and not see that God is not about love. Anyways, may God bless you sister for seeing that so much.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Dealing with the idea of hell!

Sounds like your:

Dealing with the reality of hell!

A reality that hits us on the head when we understand our disgusting, filthy, wretchedness and depraved sins, is ever more deserving of hell. Then you live your life with the prospection and anticipation of a glorious heaven.

 

[Jason0047]

If it is based on a lie then you disregard what the bible says.......

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 21:8 calls the Lake of Fire the Second Death for a reason. Why? Because it is related to the First Death (Where the physical body perishes).

Matthew 25:46 says .... everlasting punishment and not everlasting punishing. The consequences of the punishment are everlasting. Not the punishing. Nowhere does that verse say they will be tortured for all time.

Revelation 20:15 does not say anything in the verse about any punishment involving a duration of time.

Revelation 20:10 is in reference to demons. So even if this was talking about eternal torment (Which it is not), it is not in reference to wicked humans. The KJV was translated in Early Modern English. Words back then had different meanings in the 1600's. The words "ever and ever" actually are taken from Greek word "aion." Which means "age." So this is passage is saying the devil the false prophet (who is a demon) will be tormented for ... the ages of ages. This is speaking past tense and not future tense. They are tormented for the purpose of the ages and ages they tormented mankind. For the KJV uses words like "matrix" describe birth, ect. One cannot assume that this talking about Matrix the movie. So words are used differently in the KJV then what we are used to today.

 

[Tankman131]

Hang on I'll try to answer for Jason based on his arguments earlier in the thread.

"Well you see all doesn't actually mean all. According to this website (www. Twistingscripture. Com) when the Bible says "all," what it actually means is "whatever fits my current narrative."

John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

Acts 22:15 For thou [Paul] shalt be his witness unto ALL MEN of what thou hast seen and heard.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of ALL MEN for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

So you would have me believe that these verses above are talking about all men in existence?

ROFL OMG THIS IS KILLING ME!! It would be even funnies if Jason wasn't actually convincing people with his scripture twisting. Im looking at people like you TMS who choose to make your own self-made God instead of accept the reality of God.