DECEMBER 25?

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All of what you have posted here comes well into play with how I have come to believe. We truly are of the faith of Abraham because Jesus Christ teaches we are.

The Judaism since Christ has become a network of sects, none of which were ever in play at the time of Christ. The only religion previous had been the theocracy named Israel.

That theocracy is now the Kingdom of god with our blessed Jesus King forever. The Holy City is the New Jerusalem to come. This is ntot some new doctrine, it is written in plain words in theWord..

Many say Jesus Christ is our Example, and I believe this, yet most do not believe they should be obedient, that is , obedient but saved by grace not by any works. That is impossible.

If we examin the Gospels we find Jesus Christ, Who is perfect, seems to teach in some places against certain laws, an eye for an eye, hate your enemy and more. He argued for the adultress' cause and gained clemency for her even though there were enoug witnesses to satisfy the requirements of the law to have her stoned to death.

Our main lesson about any law are the three points Jesus stressed to the hypocrites who enforced the law but without the three. The three points which must be exercised are faith, mercy and justice.

Mercy alone is more than enough to make the punhishment of the law null and void. The ultimate punishment of the law of course is death.............thsi was destroyed on the cross.

We are new persons when the Holy Spisrit enters into us. The law is no longer fearful for we are given great liberty to always show mercy, to attempt always to supply justice, and have faith in Jesus Christ we are acting as He would act.

If people wish to believe the two great laws of love are all they need to know, good, but make certain you love and show mercy to all with no exceptions, even your apparent enemies.

I want to be like Jesus christ, so He is my exmple, though, like everyone else, I have my own battles, but He knows my plight better than I, and I know I live forever in grace because of His Blood and Love, amen.

Many folks, when they realize Jesus wass a Jew believe we should conduct ourselves as Jews do today, but many of those, most, are synagogue of Satan, like all denominations, while all who truly believe be they Jews by blood or by the Good Shepherd's having brought us together with His original flock. Only Godknows who the believers are, no matter what affiliation they believe they are in...........

Believe Jesus and fellowship with any and all who call on Him as their Salvation from god, and you do well.


KohenMatt said:
I, too have experience a similar type of church split where I am a pastor. But as you mentioned, while there are some in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots crowd that make that sad decision to head back into Judaism, I'm sure you several folks that were just as passionate about God, Jesus and His sacrifice as anyone.

It took our church a few years to overcome a couple of different stigmas. 1) Even though there were folks who left to become more Judaic, our church was not. And 2)While we didn't embrace the full-on Judaism type of conversion, we still believed and preached a Gospel driven view of Torah and observance to it.

That's my point. I don't think it's fair to label all Messianic/Hebrew Roots people as ones preaching heresy and denying the faith. For every wacky and erroneous doctrine you can find in the HRM movement, you can find just as many in traditional Christian denomination. But in both cases, it's not correct to identify the entire denomination by those who have a false doctrine of the Gospel.
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Abraham is an excellent example. Paul understood the example we need to see from abraham so much, he spent almost a whole chapter on it (romans 4)

1. Abraham was declared righteous before he did one work.
2. Abraham was declared righteous before he was circumcised (religious tradition)
3. Abraham was declared righteous before the law was given (he did not have access to any of the religious laws. Ceremonies, traditions being spoken of even in this room)
4. We are then told why Abraham was saved.

1. He trusted God
2. He was fully assured God could do what God promised he would do)

Rom 4:[SUP] 20 [/SUP]He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”


Now why did paul tell us these things? So we could all teach how we have to follow law to be like Abraham? So we could tell people we have to work to earn salvation?

No. He told us why.

 [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

It was written so we also could have the faith of Abraham. To be fully assured, that what God promised (eternal life, Eternal salvation, Being adopted as his children, be made sons and daughters of God, etc etc etc. ) he could and would carry out.

So we too could be strengthened in faith, and praise God giving him all the glory.
 
disciplemike said:
What special and unique ways have you seen Saturnalia celebrated?
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of times of old the Roman Empire celebrated that pagan practice on Dec. 17 a one day event later on a Roman leader extended the festival too Dec. 23. Julius Caesar changed the calander by adding two months July and August in doing that the saturnalia festival was extended to 25 of dec..

Saturnalia originated as a farmer’s festival to mark the end of the autumn planting season (satus means sowing).

But Devout Christians will be reassured to learn that the date of Christmas derive from concepts in Judaism that link the time of the deaths of prophets being linked to their conception or birth. From this, early ecclesiastical number-crunchers extrapolated that the nine months of Mary’s pregnancy following the Annunciation on March 25th would produce a December 25th.
 
Miri said:
How sad that whether they realise it or not, most of planet earth celebrates
the birth of Christ. (Even those that don't believe in God know the reason behind the
season).

While so called Christians try to come up with reasons not to celebrate it.

Shakes head in disbelief. :(
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Bump, and yet the debate continues.
What a bad testimony this thread is to others on a Christian website.
Me thinks Satan is at work on this thread.
 
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