Descended from Israel vs Belonging to Israel

[Sophia]

Once again Sophia, you have not answered my question. The quote is THEY will look on the one they have pierced, that means more than one person, not one roman guard. The prophecy can be used in two instances. John only referred to one line of the prophecy from Zechariah. It is true, the Israelites who were at the crucifixtion would have looked on the one whom they were responsible for piercing. John did not quote the whole text.
Now please answer my question. In Zechariah it states the day they will look on the one they have pierced all the clans of Israel will mourn for Jesus. Please tell me how that text is fulfilled by one roman guard. I have answered your question, please, if you are being led of the Holy Spirit more than I in this discussion, please answer my previous post

John said fulfilled, not partially filled.
You asked many questions. More than one in each post, and often 4 or 5. Which one are you referring to?
One question at a time, and I will prayerfully answer.
I'm not omniscient. I can't answer the questions from my own mind.

 

[Sophia]

The Israelites will at that time be convicted of what they did to Jesus. Their eyes will be opened and they will mourn greatly as the truth dawns on them. They will know in their hearts on that day Christ is the Messiah and he died for their sins. The one whom their ancestors were responsible for piercing is their Lord and Saviour.

So all of OT Scripture points to one generation of Jews?

I think that "that Day" is these Last Days that we are in.

 

[michael56]

John said fulfilled, not partially filled.
You asked many questions. More than one in each post, and often 4 or 5. Which one are you referring to?
One question at a time, and I will prayerfully answer.
I'm not omniscient. I can't answer the questions from my own mind.

But you have not answered any of my questions yet Sophia.

I repeat, it was fulfilled in so far as THEY(NOT ONE ROMAN GUARD) could look on Jesus whom they pierced, But the whole text could not be fulfilled unless you can answer my previous post.

 

[michael56]

So all of OT Scripture points to one generation of Jews?

I will respond to this when you answer my question Sophia. I hope you will not be like some on these websites and ask questions but evade answering questions put to you

 

[Sophia]

I will respond to this when you answer my question Sophia. I hope you will not be like some on these websites and ask questions but evade answering questions put to you

Like I asked before:
You have asked many questions. Just repeat the one you want me to answer, and I will prayerfully respond.

 

[michael56]

Like I asked before:
You have asked many questions. Just repeat the one you want me to answer, and I will prayerfully respond.

Lol, I just asked you again to answer it. I will put it up yet again:

 

[Sophia]

But you have not answered any of my questions yet Sophia.

I repeat, it was fulfilled in so far as THEY(NOT ONE ROMAN GUARD) could look on Jesus whom they pierced, But the whole text could not be fulfilled unless you can answer my previous post.

What was the previous post?
I looked back and saw no question in the one directly before it.

 

[michael56]

What was the previous post?
I looked back and saw no question in the one directly before it.

Here it is again:

''and I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.[SUP]11 [/SUP]ON THAT DAY the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.[SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives,[SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives,[SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.''

So the above prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus died on the cross? All the clans of Israel looked on him whom they pierced and mourned for Jesus? Is that what you believe Sophia?
How can one roman guard fulfil that prophecy? Please explain

 

[Sophia]

Here it is again:

''and I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.[SUP]11 [/SUP]ON THAT DAY the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.[SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives,[SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives,[SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.''

So the above prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus died on the cross? All the clans of Israel looked on him whom they pierced and mourned for Jesus? Is that what you believe Sophia?
How can one roman guard fulfil that prophecy? Please explain

How can John the Baptist be Elijah?
God is not bound to the Letter.

If He says it is fulfilled, then why question Him?

Did the Jews pierce Christ, or a Roman soldier?

 

[michael56]

How can John the Baptist be Elijah?
God is not bound to the Letter.

If He says it is fulfilled, then why question Him?

Did the Jews pierce Christ, or a Roman soldier?

And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power ofElijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord Luke 1:17

It cannot have been fulfilled according to the text of Zechariah 12 by one person(the centurion)

The Jews were responsible for Christ being pierced.

I put this back up as my previous answer has vanished

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Picking up where I left off...

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh." (Hebrews 11:4)

Abel, a GENTILE, "obtained witness that he was righteous" from God Who "testified of his gifts" or of his "more excellent sacrifice" which was offered "by faith". "By faith" in what or Whom? "By faith" in Christ, "as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" (I Peter 1:19-20) and/or "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8) Who was shown, in type, in God's slaying of an animal to make coverings of skin for Abel's parents, Adam and Eve. Here is the account:

"And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth." (Gen. 4:1-12)

Abel, following the typology of faith in the coming crucified Christ and redemption through His blood which God had displayed when He slew an animal and used its skin to cover Abel's parents, Adam and Eve, a typology which had apparently been explained to both Cain and Abel by their parents as neither was yet alive at the time that God covered their parents' nakedness with the same, brought "a more excellent sacrifice than Cain" (Hebrews 11:4) in that he "brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof". IOW, Abel sacrificed some of his flock as a type of the coming crucified Christ "and the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: but unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect".

Matthew chapter 23

[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[36] Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Jesus Christ spoke of "righteous Abel". How was Abel made righteous if not by faith in Jesus Christ? Again, Abel was a GENTILE as there was no such thing as either a natural Israelite or a Jew upon the face of the earth at this point in time. Once more, I'm not suggesting in the least bit that Abel's ethnicity had anything at all to do with his righteousness which he acquired by faith in Christ, but I am seeking to show that salvation was available long before a natural Israelite or Jew was ever upon the face of the earth in that salvation has everything to do with the True Israel, Jesus Christ, and He PRECEDED natural Israel by eternity past. It's no contest, friends, and He's the One Whom many would like to "supersede" or "replace" with their constant emphasis upon natural Israel as opposed to the True Israel, Jesus Christ. Again, that which came first, Christ AND THE CHURCH, can never "supersede" or "replace" that which came a distant SECOND, natural Israel.

Genesis chapter 4

[25] And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
[26] And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

These men who were calling upon the name of the LORD...were they GENTILES or Israelites/Jews? Again, it's rather obvious to anybody who actually believes the Bible that they were GENTILES in that there was no such thing as either a natural Israelite or Jew upon the face of the earth at this point in time. Once more, I'm just seeking to show that the earliest believers were all GENTILES to simply offset this whole natural Israel emphasis which some would seek to foist upon us.

Hebrews chapter 11

[5] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

"By faith" Enoch, a GENTILE, was translated that he should not see death and he had a testimony that he pleased God. "By faith" in what or Whom? Was it not "by faith" in Jesus Christ, the True Israel? Friends, Enoch actually prophesied of Christ's second coming and his prophecy is recorded for us in scripture:

Jude

[14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Yes, friends, Enoch, a GENTILE, was in right standing with God "by faith" and, again, this was long before there was ever any such thing as a natural Israelite or Jew upon the face of the earth.

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." (Hebrews 11:7)

Friends, Noah became an heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Again, "by faith" in what or Whom? By faith in Jesus Christ, the True Israel. Yes, like Abel and Enoch before him, Noah was a GENTILE. Did Noah's ethnicity have anything at all to do with his own salvation? No, of course, it did not...AND NEITHER DOES ANYBODY ELSE'S ETHNICITY COUNT FOR A HILL OF BEANS IN GOD'S SIGHT...THAT'S THE POINT!

Anyhow, in my next post, I'll prove conclusively, from scripture, that Abraham was also a GENTILE and he's actually referred to as "the father of all them that believe" (Romans 4:11).

Oooh...Abraham was a GENTILE, so maybe we should all put our focus upon GENTILE NATIONS?

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

It's just as ridiculous to put our focus upon the natural nation of Israel in that salvation has everything to do with the True Israel, Jesus Christ, and nobody AND I MEAN NOBODY has any promises from God based solely upon their ethnicity.

Please pay close attention to my next few posts. If you do, then I believe that a light will go on and that several people will come to the realization that they've been greatly duped or Judaized or "Zionized" in relation to their focus upon natural Israel.

Anyhow, I just want to mention before I move on that Abel, Enoch and Noah were all given as examples of those who persevered in the faith TO THE HEBREW CHRISTIANS and, again, Abel, Enoch and Noah WERE ALL GENTILES...whether anybody here or elsewhere likes it or not. In fact, Abraham was a GENTILE, too, and I'll conclusively prove as much in my next post and he was also given as an example of those who persevered by faith in Christ TO THE HEBREW CHRISTIANS.

As I asked, please pay close attention to my next few posts. Thanks.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Let's get a timeline of natural Israel's beginnings going so that it can be referenced in the future...

According to the scriptural account which is the only account that matters, Abraham died when he was 175 years old:

"And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years." (Genesis 25:7)

According to the scriptural account, Isaac was born unto Abraham when Abraham was 100 years old:

"And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him." (Genesis 21:5)

Okay.

Isaac was born unto Abraham when Abraham was 100 years old and Abraham died when he was 175 years old, so this means that Abraham still had 75 years left remaining in his life at this point in time. Got it?

According to the scriptural account, Jacob, who later had his name changed by God to "Israel", was born unto Isaac when he was 60 years or when Abraham was 160 years old because Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born unto him:

"And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them." (Genesis 25:26)

IOW, Jacob was born when Abraham had only 15 years remaining in his lifetime because, again, Abraham died when he was 175 years old or 15 years after the birth of Jacob.

According to the scriptural account, AFTER Jacob fled from his brother Esau, he served Laban for 20 years:

Genesis chapter 31

[36] And Jacob was wroth, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What is my trespass? what is my sin, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me?
[37] Whereas thou hast searched all my stuff, what hast thou found of all thy household stuff? set it here before my brethren and thy brethren, that they may judge betwixt us both.
[38] This twenty years have I been with thee; thy ewes and thy she goats have not cast their young, and the rams of thy flock have I not eaten.
[39] That which was torn of beasts I brought not unto thee; I bare the loss of it; of my hand didst thou require it, whether stolen by day, or stolen by night.
[40] Thus I was; in the day the drought consumed me, and the frost by night; and my sleep departed from mine eyes.
[41] Thus have I been twenty years in thy house; I served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy cattle: and thou hast changed my wages ten times.

Although I cannot tell you exactly how old Jacob was when he fled from his brother Esau (I think that it's safe to assume that Jacob was at least in his teens when he fled from Esau), we know that more than 20 years had elapsed since the time of his birth when Abraham was 160 years old. Seeing how Abraham only lived another 15 years after that or up until the time that he was 175 years old, we know that Abraham was already dead and buried at this point in time. Why is this significant? Well, it's significant because God didn't change Jacob's name to "Israel" until AFTER Jacob had served Laban for 20 years or until AFTER Abraham was dead and buried:

Genesis chapter 32

[24] And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
[25] And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
[26] And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
[27] And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
[28] And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

As such, during Abraham's lifetime, there were no such things as either a natural Israelite, a natural nation of Israel which came into being through Jacob's/Israel's twelve sons and their offspring which became known as the twelve tribes of Israel and certainly no such thing as a Jew which is derived from Jacob's fourth son, Judah:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowe...searchmode=none

Jew (n.)

12c. (in plural, giwis), from Anglo-French iuw, Old French giu, from Latin Iudaeum (nominative Iudaeus), from Greek Ioudaios, from Aramaic jehudhai (Hebrew y'hudi) "Jew," from Y'hudah "Judah," literally "celebrated," name of Jacob's fourth son and of the tribe descended from him. Replaced Old English Iudeas "the Jews." Originally, "Hebrew of the kingdom of Judah."

Yes, friends, like Abel, Enoch and Noah before him, Abraham was, in fact, a GENTILE...BUT THEY WERE ALL A PART OF "THE ISRAEL OF GOD" as I'll prove in a later post.

Please keep this reality in mind as we progress throughout this discussion.

Thanks.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Here it is again:

''and I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[SUP][a][/SUP] of grace and supplication. They will look on[SUP][b][/SUP] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.[SUP]11 [/SUP]ON THAT DAY the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.[SUP]12 [/SUP]The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives,[SUP]13 [/SUP]the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives,[SUP]14 [/SUP]and all the rest of the clans and their wives.''

So the above prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus died on the cross? All the clans of Israel looked on him whom they pierced and mourned for Jesus? Is that what you believe Sophia?
How can one roman guard fulfil that prophecy? Please explain

Here's the full text of Zechariah chapter 12:

[1] The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
[2] Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
[3] And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
[4] In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
[5] And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
[6] In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
[7] The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
[8] In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
[9] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
[12] And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
[13] The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
[14] All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

The CONTEXTUAL TIMELINE for this is the battle of Armegeddon. When Christ returns, the following will transpire:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (Revelation 1:7)

According to John, ALL KINDREDS OF THE EARTH SHALL WAIL (or mourn) BECAUSE OF HIM.

I have to be offline for a bit...

 

[michael56]

Here's the full text of Zechariah chapter 12:

[1] The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
[2] Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
[3] And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
[4] In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
[5] And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
[6] In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
[7] The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
[8] In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
[9] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
[12] And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
[13] The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
[14] All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

The CONTEXTUAL TIMELINE for this is the battle of Armegeddon. When Christ returns, the following will transpire:

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (Revelation 1:7)

According to John, ALL KINDREDS OF THE EARTH SHALL WAIL (or mourn) BECAUSE OF HIM.

I have to be offline for a bit...

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[SUP][c][/SUP][SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world 1Cor1:19&20

 

[michael56]

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[SUP][a][/SUP] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. [SUP]13 [/SUP]On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. [SUP]15 [/SUP]A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech ch 14

 

[michael56]

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
[2] Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
[3] And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
[4] In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
[5] And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
[6] In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
[7] The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
[8] In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
[9] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
[12] And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
[13] The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
[14] All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Ch13:1-6

[h=3]Cleansing From Sin[/h]13 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the Lord’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“On that day every prophet will be ashamed of their prophetic vision. They will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Each will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.[SUP][a][/SUP]’ [SUP]6 [/SUP]If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body[SUP][b][/SUP]?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[SUP][c][/SUP][SUP]20 [/SUP]Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world 1Cor1:19&20

What's this supposed to mean?

You harass Sophia for an answer to your question...I step in and provide you with the Biblical answer to your question...and then you say that my Biblical answer is "the wisdom of this world"?

You need a lot of help, friend.

With God as my Witness, I actually logged off yesterday because your posts were so scary in that you kept on attributing your error to the Holy Spirit that I had to go and pray for you.

 

[DesiredHaven]

What's this supposed to mean?

You harass Sophia for an answer to your question...I step in and provide you with the Biblical answer to your question...and then you say that my Biblical answer is "the wisdom of this world"?

You need a lot of help, friend.

With God as my Witness, I actually logged off yesterday because your posts were so scary in that you kept on attributing your error to the Holy Spirit that I had to go and pray for you.

I was going to ask.... lol

 

[JesusistheChrist]

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. [SUP]4 [/SUP]On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[SUP][a][/SUP] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. [SUP]11 [/SUP]It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. [SUP]13 [/SUP]On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. [SUP]15 [/SUP]A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. [SUP]18 [/SUP]If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[SUP][b][/SUP] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[SUP][c][/SUP] in the house of the Lord Almighty. Zech ch 14

Yes, and...???

Whose position are you out to prove...yours or mine?

Friend, what is it about "I WILL GATHER ALL THE NATIONS TO JERUSALEM TO FIGHT AGAINST IT" that you don't understand? IOW, Who do you suppose the "I" is?

This coincides PERFECTLY with what we read in relation to GOD putting it within the heart of the beast, the Antichrist, and the nations who will give their power to him, to "HATE THE WHORE" in that "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OR HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) is none other than JERUSALEM:

Revelation chapter 17

[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Yes, friend, what you quoted will be "fulfilled" when JERUSALEM is attacked in fulfillment of God's command.

So much for "and all Israel shall be saved" with "all Israel" allegedly referring to "all NATURAL Israel".

You need a lot of help, friend.

Again, what you quoted has to do with the time of Christ's return when He comes to sit upon the throne of David and to reign over the earth from JERUSALEM as prophesied throughout both the Old and New Testaments, but this says NOTHING about all NATURAL Israel being saved. In fact, most of them are being captured/ransacked/raped...as your own provided quote explains.

 

[michael56]

What's this supposed to mean?

You harass Sophia for an answer to your question...I step in and provide you with the Biblical answer to your question...and then you say that my Biblical answer is "the wisdom of this world"?

You need a lot of help, friend.

With God as my Witness, I actually logged off yesterday because your posts were so scary in that you kept on attributing your error to the Holy Spirit that I had to go and pray for you.

Well as Sophia was asking me questions, I thought it only fair she should answer mine, I thought that was titled debate, what these sites are for. To be honest, I didn't think much of your explanation , so ignored it

Of course, there could be another explanation as to why you were so troubled!! Thankfully in the spirit filled churches I have attended they recognise the truth of the plain words of the scriptures and do not let their natural theological mind lead them astray