Did God occupy any space before creation?
- Thread starter PaulThomson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"beginning" is nothing other than a reference to time.
"the heavens and the earth" is nothing other than a reference to space.
you may not want Genesis 1:1 to be speaking about the origin of space and time, but it is. they are not God - they are created things.
you are of course free to try what you want to try, but God cannot be measured with a cubit rod.
"the heavens and the earth" is nothing other than a reference to space.
you may not want Genesis 1:1 to be speaking about the origin of space and time, but it is. they are not God - they are created things.
you are of course free to try what you want to try, but God cannot be measured with a cubit rod.
-
1
- Show all
The beginning of my life is not the beginning of all time. The beginning of democracy is not the beginning of all time, An outhor writing the beginning line of a novel is not the beginning of all time. All this beginnings occur in a greater time-line.
Genesis 1:1 tells us about the beginning of our cosmos, and that our cosmos had a beginning is no more proof that all time began with the beginning of the cosmos. For you to think Gen. 1:1 is declaring that all time began when our cosmos began is an illogical inference from the text.
Likewise if I create a child's toy that takes up space , I did not create the space in which the toy now sits. We are not creating more space, but are filling up existing space.. There is no reason to suppose God had to make space before making things.,
Genesis 1:1 tells us about the beginning of our cosmos, and that our cosmos had a beginning is no more proof that all time began with the beginning of the cosmos. For you to think Gen. 1:1 is declaring that all time began when our cosmos began is an illogical inference from the text.
Likewise if I create a child's toy that takes up space , I did not create the space in which the toy now sits. We are not creating more space, but are filling up existing space.. There is no reason to suppose God had to make space before making things.,
Psalm 139:7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?
8If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, [1] you are there.
9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
11If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,"
12even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
If one ascends to heaven, God is there. If one descends into hades, God is there. If one goes inside any atom, God is there. If one goes into the space between atomic particles, God is there. If one goes into the vacuum of space between space dust particles, God is there. If one goes into any of the ten dimensions, God is there. If one goes beyond the limits of our space-time continuum, God is there.
God is Spirit and his Spirit is obviously contiguous with every point in our space-time continuum or cosmos. It seems to be quite irrational for "bible-believing" posters here to argue that "God has no size", when scripture claims He is present at every point within every dimension within a cosmos that has immense size, and He is also not limited even to the immense size of this cosmos.
To argue that "infinitely big" is not one possible4 description of a size that is larger than this cosmos, seems also irrational.
Can we not agree that God is omnipresent and therefore must be bigger than our time-space cosmos?
Having proven God's "larger than the universe" size to be logically necessary, we can then ask the question, " If God NOW fills our time-space cosmos and beyond, there are two possibilities for the case before our time-space continuum began:
1. God filled infinite space before creation and created the cosmos within the space His spirit already occupied.
2. God occupied no space and therefore had no size before creating this universe, and God developed/put on size when our universe was made. in order to be omnipresent within and beyond its boundaries.
Which is the more reasonable and biblically compatible answer?
8If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, [1] you are there.
9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.
11If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,"
12even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
If one ascends to heaven, God is there. If one descends into hades, God is there. If one goes inside any atom, God is there. If one goes into the space between atomic particles, God is there. If one goes into the vacuum of space between space dust particles, God is there. If one goes into any of the ten dimensions, God is there. If one goes beyond the limits of our space-time continuum, God is there.
God is Spirit and his Spirit is obviously contiguous with every point in our space-time continuum or cosmos. It seems to be quite irrational for "bible-believing" posters here to argue that "God has no size", when scripture claims He is present at every point within every dimension within a cosmos that has immense size, and He is also not limited even to the immense size of this cosmos.
To argue that "infinitely big" is not one possible4 description of a size that is larger than this cosmos, seems also irrational.
Can we not agree that God is omnipresent and therefore must be bigger than our time-space cosmos?
Having proven God's "larger than the universe" size to be logically necessary, we can then ask the question, " If God NOW fills our time-space cosmos and beyond, there are two possibilities for the case before our time-space continuum began:
1. God filled infinite space before creation and created the cosmos within the space His spirit already occupied.
2. God occupied no space and therefore had no size before creating this universe, and God developed/put on size when our universe was made. in order to be omnipresent within and beyond its boundaries.
Which is the more reasonable and biblically compatible answer?
This is how big God is and how He wants to be known by us...
A Roman centurion knew that Jesus did not have to go to his house to heal his sick servant.
That all Jesus had to do was give a command to heal his servant without Jesus being there.
That is how big God is, all at once...
No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself
God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him." John 1:18
A Roman centurion knew that Jesus did not have to go to his house to heal his sick servant.
That all Jesus had to do was give a command to heal his servant without Jesus being there.
That is how big God is, all at once...
-
1
- Show all
......Its really big of Him, to make Himself also so small for our sake!
Yet angels are body and spirit.
There spirit is only in one place.
To God "spirit" can take on a form invisible to our eye.
To God? His "spirit essence" has substance unique to itself.
God does not expect us to quickly accept the concept, but to faith rest it as God works in the knowledge needed for our comfort.
grace and peace.....
There spirit is only in one place.
To God "spirit" can take on a form invisible to our eye.
To God? His "spirit essence" has substance unique to itself.
God does not expect us to quickly accept the concept, but to faith rest it as God works in the knowledge needed for our comfort.
grace and peace.....
It boggles your mind. Doesn't it?
Trying to limit the unlimited presence of God is an attempt to remain sane because you personally can not picture it.
Accepting something about God by faith does not mean we can explain it... We just accept it, and our faith pleases God. Hebrews 11:6
Nor, could Peter explain why he was able (for a short time) to walk on water...... But, Peter did so by faith. Matthew 14:28-32
Without faith men will cast down God's Word.
.....................
Trying to limit the unlimited presence of God is an attempt to remain sane because you personally can not picture it.
Accepting something about God by faith does not mean we can explain it... We just accept it, and our faith pleases God. Hebrews 11:6
Nor, could Peter explain why he was able (for a short time) to walk on water...... But, Peter did so by faith. Matthew 14:28-32
Without faith men will cast down God's Word.
.....................
Time and eternity are pretty much summed up in the following: 2Co 4:18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Time is a measure of the things we see, which are temporal. All that is hoped for is eternal. Tha latter may only be understood by any who possess faith.
All that we see is created by our Father, faith.
All that is seen is created.
All that we see will pass away with a loud noise.
No man has seen God and lived. We see from the world other planets and stars, cannot be God but is space.
This entire line of questioning seems quite silly to any with faith.
All of this information is in the Book.
Time is a measure of the things we see, which are temporal. All that is hoped for is eternal. Tha latter may only be understood by any who possess faith.
All that we see is created by our Father, faith.
All that is seen is created.
All that we see will pass away with a loud noise.
No man has seen God and lived. We see from the world other planets and stars, cannot be God but is space.
This entire line of questioning seems quite silly to any with faith.
All of this information is in the Book.
-
1
- Show all
Genesis should read, “In A beginning.” There are several beginnings in Scripture, but the one that begins the book of John is closer to THE beginning. However, since He is described as having NO beginning or end, it still leaves room for speculation, and as curious creatures, we love to speculate.
-
1
- Show all
I don';t see how that is relevant to my question.
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space.
I am curious. can you give a definition of "space" itself that does not fit the Biblical description of God?
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space.
I am curious. can you give a definition of "space" itself that does not fit the Biblical description of God?
That is correct. But that does not answer my question.
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space.
PaulThomson said:
Where does scripture say God created space ? I don't see that anywhere. I do see that He created things that occupy space.