Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I have said no such thing and you have to be a follower of Judaism to be a Judeaizer. These comments are just not worth responding too.
of course not. there is a lot of things that are said here that you judeaizers do not want to talk about. you try to keep your cloak on , and not go into Sabbath keeping and Paul's writings are not authoritative Scripture , and the other non-sense you believe.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yet I have said in a number of posts differently than you are implying and even quoted 2 verses that are differnt than you are implying of me.



Bottom line, the law done properly is true and perfect love. Disagree with that? Ask youself who is the only one to walk sinless? Jesus right. Who was the only one to walk perfectly in love? Jesus right. Very simple, I will leave it there.

Bottom line

The Law done properly and true is to obey every word, not fail in even one point (be it a mistake or on purpose) and maintain this status of perfection all your life

If you can not do this, You can not keep the law.

And you answered your own statement

Jesus did it. I pray you do not think you can walk perfectly like Jesus did.

Our goal is to not think we have made it, but continue to run the race before us, And learn from Jesus and others who have put the needs of others above their own, because they Love God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again it's rather shocking that CHristians are saying they follow Jesus by not following Him. As you states, delusion indeed.
WHO is saying this? I keep hearing you guys say this, But I do not SEE ANYONE WHO SAYS THIS?

it gets a little tiring when people say that people do not think we need to follow Christ, In about every discussion about obedience to the law. yet when everyone looks, NO ONE IS MAKING THIS CLAIM

I guess this applies to some christians not just the Jews...

Psalms 118:19-22, " 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness, that I may enter through them and give thanks to the LORD. 20 This is the gate of the LORD; the righteous shall enter through it. 21 I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation. 22 The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
Jews can't obey the law any better than the christians can. In fact, reality says, unless they are christian, they obey it less (although they will argue that with you, especially devout jews who THINK they are devoted to the law) However, they do not have Gods love poured out on them, so they in turn can take that love and pour it out on others.

WHICH IS WHAT JESUS DID. took his fathers love and poured it out on those he cam in contact with, whoever they were.

Jesus did not go around all his life focusing on which commands he needs to obey, He went around focusing on who to serve who to love

THATS the example he left us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see you trying to lay a trap.



Just like baptisim it is and outward sign of an inward chage. If there is no inward chage it is useless. If one is physically circumcised but is not following God it is as if they are not circumcised:

Jeremiah 4:4-5, " 4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.” 5 Declare in Judah, and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say, “Blow the trumpet through the land; cry aloud and say, ‘Assemble, and let us go into the fortified cities!’
what if they got circumcised only because they thought they had to because God commanded it, and if they want to be blessed, they think they have to do it?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I have been sayiing the law is not gone, sand quoting Heb 10:16-16, now quote this telling me im wrong.

You frame all desire of obedience as "working"

If one has the SPirit of God changing their heart they will have the law in their heart and mind. That is heart AND mind. That means they will love in and think/meditate on it. Yet you say if one thinks about it, enjoys it, seeks to do it, its "working!!!!" SO do you propose people as holy spirit robots that have no control over themselves.



LOL, sems you don;t know what Paul is quoting from or you may have not quoted that. This shows the truth...

Midrashic intrepratation:

Galatians 3:12, “But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”

The actual text:

Leviticus 18:4-5, " 4 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God. 5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.



Psalm 119:165, “Great peace have those loving YourLaw, And for them there is no stumbling-block..”

Midrashic foolishness. What is the stumbling stone according to what Paul is quoting?

Romans 9:32-33, " 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Isaiah 8:11-15, " 11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me, and warned me not to walk in the way of this people, saying: 12 “Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread. 13 But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.”

Isaiah 28:16-17, " 16 therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: ‘Whoever believes will not be in haste.’ 17 And I will make justice the line, and righteousness the plumb line; and hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, and waters will overwhelm the shelter.”

Psalms 118:19-22, " 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness, that I may enter through them and give thanks to the LORD. 20 This is the gate of the LORD; the righteous shall enter through it. 21 I thank you that you have answered me and have become my salvation. 22 The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.

THe gate...the cornerstone is Jesus, for the most part the Jews did not accept Jesus, this is the stumbling block, not the Commands...But if one does not know the old testament they will not know how to seperate what the old testament says in dividing it from Paul's midrashic intrepratation.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”
Grandpa did not say the law was gone

Please try to read what he is actually saying
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2

Why do you think the law was written on our hearts if we do not need it? Did Jesus say that we don't need the law? When He gave the instructions to preach the gospel and teach people to obey whatever He commanded them, does that not include the 10 commandments which were summed up in this one rule: "love your neighbour as yourself"?

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven.

It's a bit confusing though how God's people keep and obey His commands when they don't even need them according to you.
Its a bit confusing when Jesus tells people to love God and others, do this, and the law will be fulfilled

then tell people they need commands, Which sort of cancels love out


If you need to be told not to fornicate, or to Honor your parents, or not covet, Something is seriousy wrong with you. I would suggest you search your heart, and ask God why you still need these commands. And why you are unable instead to focus on loving the gal your tempted with, Your loving your parents, or loving the person who has been blessed with the things you covet.
 

Heyjude

Active member
Sep 7, 2019
277
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Every time I open the door on this thread, I feel like I am walking into a massive food fight and have to duck to get out of the way. How come you all haven't run out of custard pies yet?

This thread reminds me of this song.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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What she is calling the "spirit of the law" is called the righteousness of the law in scripture and according to Paul`s gospel following the Holy Spirit will cause the righteousness of the law to be fulfilled in us. This happens by the power of God`s love shed in our hearts.

These attacks I am seeing are nothing but more mean spirited word twisting.
Mean spirited word twisting. That's a good one. If you could see word twisting I would be impressed.

Its not my fault legalists contradict Christ and Paul.

I just show them that they do it.
 
Aug 17, 2019
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Its a bit confusing when Jesus tells people to love God and others, do this, and the law will be fulfilled

then tell people they need commands, Which sort of cancels love out

If you need to be told not to fornicate, or to Honor your parents, or not covet, Something is seriousy wrong with you. I would suggest you search your heart, and ask God why you still need these commands. And why you are unable instead to focus on loving the gal your tempted with, Your loving your parents, or loving the person who has been blessed with the things you covet.
Yep

And they are not bound by law, the law led them to christ as a schoolmaster, which is why hey are par of the body

Gods people keep his commands why?

B cause they follow the law of love, not the law of moses

We agree, gods people obey him

We disagree how or by what power
Why do you think the law was written on our hearts if we do not need it? Did Jesus say that we don't need the law? When He gave the instructions to preach the gospel and teach people to obey whatever He commanded them, does that not include the 10 commandments which were summed up in this one rule: "love your neighbour as yourself"?

Did you not say that God's people keep and obey His commandments?

Submission to the Authorities
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Romans 13:1-7

Do we submit to God's authority by saying that we don't need His laws or commandments?

I have underlined your argument above and here's what the bible says:

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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but, you judeaizers say that one has to keep the letter of the Law to properly manifest the indwelling Sprit. that is a lie.

if one is manifesting the Fruits of the Sprit, then against theses there is no Law.

but, in the Fruits of the Sprit, there is no Sabbath keeping. that is why you judeaizers reject or twist this.
Why was this given a boring emoji?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why do you think the law was written on our hearts if we do not need it? Did Jesus say that we don't need the law? When He gave the instructions to preach the gospel and teach people to obey whatever He commanded them, does that not include the 10 commandments which were summed up in this one rule: "love your neighbour as yourself"?

Did you not say that God's people keep and obey His commandments?

Submission to the Authorities
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Romans 13:1-7

Do we submit to God's authority by saying that we don't need His laws or commandments?

I have underlined your argument above and here's what the bible says:

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.
God did not write the ministry of death in my heart.

He wrote, and continues to write, Gods love in my heart

Laws are given for the lawless.

A person who truly loves and seeks to serve and not receive will never break any laws by practice.

You keep posting the verse about love, Why will you not understand what that very verse means?

if you see a neighbor get something you have wanted for along time, O pray you do not look back to the law. and keep telling yourself do not cover, do not covet do not covet, that's what God commands, Because if you even have to think of it, You already have sinned

You better be thinking to yourself. wow. God has blessed my neighbor, Is not God a great God, praise God. and move on. ad think about how you can be used to serve your neighbor even more (think outward not inward) something the law does not teach.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
I have been sayiing the law is not gone, sand quoting Heb 10:16-16, now quote this telling me im wrong.

You frame all desire of obedience as "working"

If one has the SPirit of God changing their heart they will have the law in their heart and mind. That is heart AND mind. That means they will love in and think/meditate on it. Yet you say if one thinks about it, enjoys it, seeks to do it, its "working!!!!" SO do you propose people as holy spirit robots that have no control over themselves.
I frame all working at the law as working at the law.

You frame all "desire for obedience" to be working at the law. Because you don't know any other way.


If God has put HIS ACTUAL law in our hearts and minds then we don't need to go back to Commandments that Command people to keep His Law.

If one has the Spirit of God changing their heart they will have Gods Actual Law in their heart and mind. It will be a wondrous thing.

It will not be the Ministration of Death and Condemnation, Commanding people to keep His Law.



LOL, sems you don;t know what Paul is quoting from or you may have not quoted that. This shows the truth...

Midrashic intrepratation:

Galatians 3:12, “But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”

The actual text:

Leviticus 18:4-5, " 4 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God. 5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.
The only thing that is funny here is how you can ALWAYS manage to circle back to working at the law. That is funny.

The point, and Pauls point, is that working at the law is NOT of faith.

The one who does them shall live in them is referring back to verse 10 and 11.

Galatians 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.



Psalm 119:165, “Great peace have those loving YourLaw, And for them there is no stumbling-block..”

Midrashic foolishness. What is the stumbling stone according to what Paul is quoting?

Romans 9:32-33, " 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Do you see that? The righteousness which is of faith (in Christ). Remember in Galatians where Scripture says working at the law is NOT of faith? Well, here it comes again...

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Well you are stumbling over the same rock of offense. You aren't seeking Righteousness by faith, like I am showing you.

You are seeking Righteousness by working at the law.

But when I show you that your work at the law DOESN'T establish the law, only faith in Christ does you can't understand.

Only by faith in Christ are any of Gods Laws obeyed.

And once you turn away from Christ and back to your work at the law your obedience stops.


You can't have blessing and cursing simultaneously.

You can't have condemnation and Righteousness simultaneously.

You can only have one or the other.
 
Aug 17, 2019
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God did not write the ministry of death in my heart.

He wrote, and continues to write, Gods love in my heart

Laws are given for the lawless.

A person who truly loves and seeks to serve and not receive will never break any laws by practice.

You keep posting the verse about love, Why will you not understand what that very verse means?

if you see a neighbor get something you have wanted for along time, O pray you do not look back to the law. and keep telling yourself do not cover, do not covet do not covet, that's what God commands, Because if you even have to think of it, You already have sinned

You better be thinking to yourself. wow. God has blessed my neighbor, Is not God a great God, praise God. and move on. ad think about how you can be used to serve your neighbor even more (think outward not inward) something the law does not teach.
You can always twist what I say but remember this:

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Galatians 6:7-10

You have provoked me to reply to your merry go round argument so I expect you to answer my questions otherwise I'll have to let it pass and let God be true and judge us.

Why do you think the law was written on our hearts if we do not need it? Did Jesus say that we don't need the law? When He gave the instructions to preach the gospel and teach people to obey whatever He commanded them, does that not include the 10 commandments which were summed up in this one rule: "love your neighbour as yourself"?

Did you not say that God's people keep and obey His commandments?

Submission to the Authorities
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Romans 13:1-7

Do we submit to God's authority by saying that we don't need His laws or commandments?

I have underlined your argument above and here's what the bible says:

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

The Master's word/s is a law to His servants, written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
113
Hebrews 10:16-17, " 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” 17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

Matthew 24:11-12, " 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

When do you think it is that God puts His Laws on the Hearts and writes them on the Mind?

What do you think it is that gives Christians Rest from their work at the 10 commandments?
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Went shopping the other day and thought the cashier undercharged me. I said something to the cashier but it turns out the cashier was right.

It felt great having said something, not because I was keeping the law or “maintaining” my salvation through works, but because I simply want to magnify God’s Name.

A joyful heart is the difference between having faith in Christ rather than faith in yourself.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
This couldn't be further from what is being argued.

Those who are arguing for the law don't understand what Christianity even is.

I'll show you a glimpse through scripture to help you to understand, if it were your intention to understand and REALLY keep and follow the law.

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


This would be so much more simple if you could try to understand scripture instead of thinking I am trying to win some sort of debate with you. There is no debate. There is only the Truth of Scripture and you aren't seeing it.
No Grandpa? It would be so much more easier, if you, and others like you were able to recognize:
a) Where we are in this current earth/heaven age "timeline."
b) The difference/s between Christ's people, and His Father's people.
c) What Christ's Father's people (who are Christ's people, at the present, but because of your traditions, are doing more harm then good to them, and yourselves as well.), are doing for Christ, in the accomplishing of that which Christ's Father stated in Psalms 110:1:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Because y'all seemingly recognize Christ at first? But, apostasy through "traditions" has "mandated", that "attributes" of God's Fathership of Christ? Be stripped away from Him! And "other" things as well.

Which makes for such long threads, and vehement, and adamant "discussions(?)":)!

Which after awhile? Makes it hard to even see "the Spirit of Christ" in y'all people, let alone "the Spirit of God, who raised Christ from the dead!

1 Samuel 15
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
1 Samuel 15
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
Which people of faith here on CC are rejecting Jesus as their King?