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J
JesusIsAll
Guest
That's why I can't take some of these things seriously. People who think man should be the proper tyrant, or the woman should be appeased in all things, because that's love, all that aside, we must agree that, when in comes to sin, there's absolute equality and need for a Savior. It's only equal opportunity at the foot of the cross! We may be better to each other, if we always kept this in mind.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
It sure seems the voice of the serpent can come through your own flesh and bone (or a mans wife).
Adam-ward through the woman (Eve)
Which could also be shown in Job
Satan wants to get Job to curse God, and one of the means he would use to try and get him to do this was the touching Jobs flesh and bone. This was given to Satan to do, which (to me) appears as his "temptation in" the flesh because with this infirmity or spirit thereof (to afllict Job) is really his temptation (even to curse God in that particular doing). That thing was accompanied with a bet against Job God-ward.
God had removed the hedge, and allowed Satan to Job's flesh and bone even his skin (and struck him with boils).
Satan says,
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now,
and touch his bone and his flesh,
and he will curse thee to thy face.
A couple of verses later his wife...
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him,
Dost thou still retain thine integrity?
curse God, and die.
Who is uttering the words of the serpents temptaion to Job?
The woman, Job's wife (who IS also his flesh and bone).
She is HIS flesh and bone also (no more two but one flesh)
Gen 2:23 And Adam said,
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh:
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.
But Job said to her (his own wife) who was feeding him with the serpent words (of temptation)
Job 2:10 But he said unto her,
Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh.
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?
In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
He is doing this with his wife
2 Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2 Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.
Not being ignorant of his devices
He is always standing before a woman, in Genesis, in Revelation,
even as soon as the word is sown.
He is off conversing with the woman (not the man) about what God said as is shown in Gen.
But its there we can see how it snares the man by (or through his own wife)
as Satan sought to through Jobs own flesh and bone.
Would seem the women were being used to tempt their husbands to Satans desire which was towards them.
Job at least corrected his own wife, reccognized her speaking foolishly, and instructed her.
But it would seem (very much so) that as his own personal flesh was touched to provoke him to curse God that his wife was taken captive to encourage that desire that Satan had towards Job through his wife (also his own flesh and bone). She is breathing out his words to her own husband. Adam bit into it and Job did not. Seems like two opposite pictures in that doing.
Adam-ward through the woman (Eve)
Which could also be shown in Job
Satan wants to get Job to curse God, and one of the means he would use to try and get him to do this was the touching Jobs flesh and bone. This was given to Satan to do, which (to me) appears as his "temptation in" the flesh because with this infirmity or spirit thereof (to afllict Job) is really his temptation (even to curse God in that particular doing). That thing was accompanied with a bet against Job God-ward.
God had removed the hedge, and allowed Satan to Job's flesh and bone even his skin (and struck him with boils).
Satan says,
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now,
and touch his bone and his flesh,
and he will curse thee to thy face.
A couple of verses later his wife...
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him,
Dost thou still retain thine integrity?
curse God, and die.
Who is uttering the words of the serpents temptaion to Job?
The woman, Job's wife (who IS also his flesh and bone).
She is HIS flesh and bone also (no more two but one flesh)
Gen 2:23 And Adam said,
This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh:
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.
But Job said to her (his own wife) who was feeding him with the serpent words (of temptation)
Job 2:10 But he said unto her,
Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh.
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?
In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
He is doing this with his wife
2 Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2 Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.
Not being ignorant of his devices
He is always standing before a woman, in Genesis, in Revelation,
even as soon as the word is sown.
He is off conversing with the woman (not the man) about what God said as is shown in Gen.
But its there we can see how it snares the man by (or through his own wife)
as Satan sought to through Jobs own flesh and bone.
Would seem the women were being used to tempt their husbands to Satans desire which was towards them.
Job at least corrected his own wife, reccognized her speaking foolishly, and instructed her.
But it would seem (very much so) that as his own personal flesh was touched to provoke him to curse God that his wife was taken captive to encourage that desire that Satan had towards Job through his wife (also his own flesh and bone). She is breathing out his words to her own husband. Adam bit into it and Job did not. Seems like two opposite pictures in that doing.
J
JesusIsAll
Guest
That is the ideal,but it doesn't always happen that way.
I have seldom, seldom seen relationships that go the Biblical basis in practice. And those which seem to, there's no way of knowing what's going on behind closed doors, even often shocking to find out. I'm not finding that people are abundantly obedient to the will of God.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Whether you meant to start a firestorm or not these subjects always get a lot of attention. You cannot generalize that women are disrespectful any more then men are disrespectful. I have members in my family,men who claim to be Christian,who are very disrespectful to their wives. And the use Bible verses to back up their abuse.So you have to be very careful with how you teach these Scriptures.They can be taken way too far. Nearby where I use to live they had a Bible collage that taught these verses out of context. The wives were abused and there were a lot of divorces in that Bible collage and a lot of women who left the church all together because of it. So we need to careful and balanced in our teaching on roles of men and women. It is dangerous to generalize.We need to be careful.
J
JesusIsAll
Guest
From what I've seen, it's even worse. Some of the supposedly Biblically based marriages are some of the most dysfunctional, with, like, a husband tyrant who carries his giant Bible to church and downloads porn, who, as often as not, is doing things on the side. It seems when you see the Bible thumping, until the table is jumping, it's always, "Look out below!" Actually, I like quiet, faithful people, but don't much like noisy, religious people.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
There is very poor teaching in the church on marriage and even worse when a couple finds themselves in trouble and in need of counseling. Someone in my family went to a pastor for counseling,she was being mentally abused in my opinion,and the pastor still put the blame on her.One pastor told her to "fight naked" and her husband would be less likely to stay angry !!!? The church needs to move out of the 50s and start dealing with these issues with more maturity and sensitivity. I know if my pastor gave me some of the advice Ive heard given he would not like the result. He and I would have a come to Jesus moment and he would be more careful of the advice he gave the next couple,I guarantee you!
J
JesusIsAll
Guest
I'm not joking. Chances are, that pastor downloads porn or the likes. People are not loving each other well, from the pulpit to the pew to the dinner table. This is the disease. Lots of doctrine, and hearts of stone.
Marriage is not about an intimate relationship between Christ and His people. It is about an intimate relationship between a husband and a wife. Both the husband and wife need love and respect. Actually, the husband and wife are happiest when they try to please each other. This would make for a healthy marriage.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
While I woudn't want to generalize I do know that it certainly does happen. I would say we definitely need a revival. I grew up in family dysfunction. Its even harder to deal with dysfunction when you go to church every Sunday but nothing is changing at home. Christians need to get real. We cant be healed if we cant be real about our struggles.
E
ember
Guest
Originally Posted by Femalelamb
If you're not married you really don't know. So your opinion is not as valid, but maybe you can learn something here.
I do not agree with this. I can have an opinion on the subject of marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution that should not be entered lightly. I have a desire to get married and have children one day, but God hasn't shown me the man yet. I don't appreciate saying that my opinion is not valid on the subject of spouses being disrespectful of each other.
Your response is interesting cmarieh because it brought to mind the fact that before marriage most people are thinking of how great it is going to be and you had better believe both parties have set up some opinions on how the first part of the second party is going to respond and act in the situation where the first party believes they have the floor....all the time and that can go either way.
Since that was most likely confusing, how many people actually sit down and try to comprehend just what the other person expects or thinks?
Major problems in marriage...Christian or otherwise...seem to revolve around money and trust issues or even how people like to spend their spare time and obviously for Christians, how deep is your committment to the Lord? ie How do you like to spend your money? Do you save money or live paycheck to paycheck?
My husband and I have had to iron out some real issues even though we did discuss before marriage. I was brought up to be independent and taught to think for myself...my Dad is actually the one that instilled that. My husband was brought up very differently. I cannot stand being treated like Barbie and I believe people should do what they can in a marriage and not say things like "well that's the man's job or the woman's job"...obviously there are differences in physical capabilities but looking for excuses not to do something is just a copout IMO
I posted about Proverbs 31 a page or two back, and kind of joked about it, but really, can a man read that chapter and then tell his wife she has no say or she should just do as she is told? That might be an extreme, but I have been surprised at the number of men who actually believe that...especially seeing that my dad taught me very differently.
I am not exactly kidding either when I state that most men who want to talk about how disrespectful women are, usually have a dog in the fight.
My Parents grew up and later served in very legalist protestant churches, I was raised in that atmosphere until both Dad and Mom left it for good in 1974. In 1978 They started a ministry for young married couples coming out of that denomination and churches.
It was as you state here, men taught by men in the church with verses out of context to support their stupidity. Pastors blaming wives and stating things like you said in your other post. Fight naked girl! or worse, Pastors telling husbands to inflcit punishments like, stripping our wife naked and tying her up and placing duct tape over her mouth for "speaking" in a church service or speaking to male etc.
Mom and Dad did that ministry for 10 years and recovered many back to each other and back to Jesus.
The stories and shattered lives were heart breaking. Lots of sexual/physical abuses done to both the husbands and wives, manipulation, mind control, shunning, you name it. Envy, strife, jealousy, every evil work imagined was going on.
All because of out of context teaching and doctrine.
The church fails on the marriage teaching because we are afraid to talk about SEX. We continue to lose the Battle on SEX as well.
The Total Woman: Marabel Morgan: 9780671732110: Amazon.com ...
The Total Woman: Marabel Morgan: 9780671732110: Amazon.com: Books
The Total Woman [Marabel Morgan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* ... Total Joy.
Marabel Morgan. 4. Hardcover. The Surrendered Wife: A Practical Guide To…
(sound biblically ; more especially compared to the 50's 60's 70's 80's 90's 00's 10's 20's 30's and 40's...)
example of woman honoring GOD'S WORD:>>>
Published on Aug 3, 2012
An intimate portrait of Amish family life and faith, following Old Order Amish couple Miriam and David and their family, and capturing the reason why this family decided to open their lives to the cameras in a society where the church forbids photography
p.s. (the couple and their family and others also got saved. (and could be shunned because of it) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE
The Total Woman: Marabel Morgan: 9780671732110: Amazon.com: Books
The Total Woman [Marabel Morgan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* ... Total Joy.
Marabel Morgan. 4. Hardcover. The Surrendered Wife: A Practical Guide To…
(sound biblically ; more especially compared to the 50's 60's 70's 80's 90's 00's 10's 20's 30's and 40's...)
example of woman honoring GOD'S WORD:>>>
Published on Aug 3, 2012
An intimate portrait of Amish family life and faith, following Old Order Amish couple Miriam and David and their family, and capturing the reason why this family decided to open their lives to the cameras in a society where the church forbids photography
p.s. (the couple and their family and others also got saved. (and could be shunned because of it) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtNXvE_rLoE
V
Viligant_Warrior
Guest
If a man feels disrespected, there are two possibilities to consider.
1. He is being disrespected, most likely because he has failed to keep the respect of his wife.
2. He is not being disrespected, and takes that attitude because of his own warped and misguided views of how his wife "must" relate to him.
As Maxwel said early in the thread, it starts with the man. He's the spiritual head of the household. It is up to him to maintain the atmosphere of love, respect, and attraction that originally caused the two to become one in the first place.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
You are 100% right! I respect your parents for their work,its not an easy ministry when people have been so brainwashed.I do not remain silent on these issues. God created sex and the church needs to be open about questions and sound teaching in this area. I have personally known some of these pastors wives too and I have been very blunt about this false teaching. They put all these man made rules on these women and crush their spirits. I have and never will be silent about this issue. We need to teach these Scriptures understanding there are young Christians and some people who are not as mature as others.
D
DesiredHaven
Guest
I fixed your link in your post
I typically dont check out vids, but I was curious, that was a very good video, I was actually so blessed by it (this family) the genuiness of this particular family is what touched me the most.
What a blessing
Thanks for posting this.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
I believe the Bible school was in Maine that I am talking about,if I recall correctly. I cant remember the name but I hope it is closed now. It brought nothing but pain and false doctrine.Its amazing how people will follow false doctrine,people you'd think would know better. It always amazes me.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
This I think is something for those who are well learned in original languages to look deeper into, if they feel so inclined.
This said, there is something to what you say in the sense that the roles given by God in creation affects the needs/desires a bit differently between the sexes. Yet we can't bring it too far to make a dichotomy between love and respect. And where's the woman who don't think that being respected by her husband is not of great importance as well as a sign of true love?