If you were talking about history, then there were cases that missionaries spread the truth with words, but greeted with swords.
Do protestants have a reasonable non-Roman-Catholic explanation for John 20:22-23?
- Thread starter PaulThomson
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#287
There is no point in debating over personal preference.
Like some people like eating durian in spite of the strong bad smell and looking like eating poops.
I won't debate on why you like it. I debate on whether durian's 'bad smell' and 'poop like' are facts.
You're an odd fellow.
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
Why don't we just accept the fact that Catholics and Protestants disagree on some things, and just leave it at that?!
In Christ there are no denominations. Paul rebuked the Corinthians for forming cliques, the forerunner of denominations. God only recognises whether or not an individual is born again. If he/she is, then they are the church. If they are not, they are still on the road to destruction.
Catholicism gives people a false sense of security by claiming that sprinkled babies are born again. This is contrary to God's word. It's not only the Catholic organisation, I know. I was sprinkled by an Anglican as an infant. I don't remember it at all. And for sure I was neither born again nor filled with the Holy Spirit.
Early Protestants were still tarred with something of the Catholic brush. The remnants of Catholic heresy still hinders much of the church today. Paul warned that this could happen. He was right.
Early Protestants were still close to Catholic Church.
Martin Luther actually agreed with Mary's Immaculate Conception and veneration of Mary. He included the Hail Mary prayer in a prayer book that he published. Martin had no problem with Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. He did not go well with Zwingli in Colloquy Marburg 1529 in this issue.
Many current teaching of Protestant denominations drift further away from Martin's theology, not to say the Catholic Church.
If Martin come back to life today, he probably could not recognize those teachings of Protestant denominations took roots from his church. He could cry out: heresies !!
"why the ONLY ONE HOLY SPIRIT teaches different doctrines to different denominations?
I DID answer this question, by biblical verse, ( Gal 2:20 particularly ) by explaining "WHO the Holy Spirit is..." and how the H.S. CANNOT teach different doctrines of Truth. It is these different peoples, delusion & believing, many different LIES about the Truth,
The Holy Spirit IS Christ's Holy Spirit.. present to us, to be our "comforter" and Guiding Light" our "Teacher of Righteousness"
There is ONLY One Righteousness of Christ, not many .. not "a different" versions of God's Laws, as the Roman Catholic Church would have use believe.
There is ONLY ONE Holy Spirit, ONE TRUTH, and it is the Spirit of Christ ... GOD !! Jesus is the Way, The Life, The Truth ... There is only ONE WAY, ONE Truth, One Life => ONE JESUS...
Jesus, The TRUTH, NOT many different versions of Truth... The Bible, The Word, scripture is Truth = Jesus
The different teachings that you observe the different denominations proclaiming, are the different understandings of LIES, of the ONE TRUTH, by their corrupted beliefs, that the "un-Holy Spirit of this World ... The Antichrist spirit, the "man of lawlessness" has been teaching for a couple thousand years, making the world drink the wine of her ( the Roman Church's ) fornication ..
Revelation 18:3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
Revelation 13:3 “... and all the world wondered after the beast.”
For example .. the worlds doctrine of the "State of the Dead" ....
Biblical "Truth doctrine" is that the "dead know not anything" Ecclesiastes 9:5 but the Roman Church has been teaching, that ... from "OUR perspective", a person goes to heaven, IMMEDIATELY ... while the Bible, Jesus teaches that the SOUL SLEEPS, till the resurrection of the dead, at the Second Coming of our LORD.
SO ! Who ARE YOU gonna believe, Jesus, His Holy Spirit OR the "un-holy spirit", the Man of Lawlessness, the ONLY OTHER spirit in the world.
The Holy Spirit, ONLY teaches, this One Truth = Jesus, ... but many people in these 40,000+ denominations, are believing the anti-Christ spirit, the Lie, presented by the Antichrist.. Same way with the Sabbath Truth, & ETC, ETC, ETC.
Tis SIN in the world,, that has people believing all these different versions of Jesus, which are NOT JESUS, but an Antichrist, "JESUS" that these 40,000+ different groups of people have rallied around, in their IGNORANCE, "having a form of Godliness, but lacking the power thereof. 2 Tim 3:5 There propensity to SIN, drives them to believing the LIE.
2 Thess. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, ( Antichrist ) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
v9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
v10 And with all delusion of unrighteousness in them that perish;( unbelievers of the ONLY ONE Truth ) because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
v11 And for this cause God shall send them (= 40,000+) strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
v12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ( They prefer their SIN, = unTruth )
ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
It sounds to me that it is you (or your church) is the only one not in the 40000 denominations.
Why is it bashing to disagree? Why is the Protestant bashing not questioned? You were a bit fairer earlier. The question is why any personal bashing, which is just poor argumentation. The argument is about the accurate meaning of Scripture and living accordingly.
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
Thanks for the agreement. Appreciated. Would be nice to see more of it around here, wouldn't it... And just to clarify because I'm used to these threads, it doesn't have to be with me, only with God.
BTW, I like your identity. I can identify with it.
O
OLDBUTNEW
Guest
I have FAITH in the Word of God, that there are many people in the world that BELIEVE Jesus.. unto salvation, as well as in this representative 40000 that you speak of. The TEST that you are so adamantly looking for is simple. It's believing God, rather than Satan.
For us, HERE & NOW it is choosing to believe Jesus, rather than believing the Antichrist.
For example, the story of Able & Cain. (one of hundreds of examples of "obedience" vs "disobedience" in the OT) where Able believed, honored and obeyed God, as to how God wanted Able to act ( obeying the Law of Love of God's Kingdom) and worshiping Him. While Cain believed Satan, ( from the Garden of Eden ) rebelled unto disobedience, sinning and dishonoring God.
Which one do you think will be counted as a member of Christ's Church Body, The Bride, unto salvation ?
As I keep mentioning, the character of Christ's Church, is found in Rev. 14:12 ~~> Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith OF Jesus". ( the Righteousness of Christ )
This "Christ's Character', His Righteousness, is increasingly found less in the world, as in the Days of Noah, ( Luke 17:26, Matt 24:37) the majority of mankind, doesn't want to heed God's Call, to come into the Ark = Jesus ( 1 Peter 3:20 ) AND His Righteousness, OR "to come out of her (the Antichrist spirit) my people" (His Church), ( Rev. 18:3-5)
Rather than walking in the Spirit, (Gal 5:16,25) they would rather walk in the flesh, = selfishness = iniquity = lawlessness = sin, ( falsely believing they are saved, because of believing the RCC = the Antichrist, which only leads to disobedience & perdition)
2 Tim 4: 3-4 (& below sig.)
I PRAY that this helps YOU "See the Light" and REPENT to obedience & salvation
Blessings Friend
ΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣΙΧΘΥΣ
Some Protestants cut out a verse out of context to suit their theology.
You are even worse! You make up your own scripture to support a theology!
What source of the scripture suggested to you ' While Cain believed Satan'?!!
The story of Cain and Abel is a good illustration.
Both of them thought they were followers of GOD and offering good sacrifice to GOD.
Yet, GOD did not accept those of Cain.
You and I are thought of true followers of Jesus.
Which one is Cain?
The sin of Cain was not on offering inappropriate sacrifice. It was his jealousy and anger over Abel.
People here just call Catholics antichrist! heresy! harlot!
I see you know little about Protestant China Inland Mission in the 18th century, after the Opium War to Boxer Rebellion. Quite a number of Protestant missionaries lost their life, faced violence, suspicion, and anti-foreign uprisings in China. You are saying here: 'those missionaries were not real Christians.' What a shame on you !!
I am not bashing the people in the Roman Church ... They are being deceived, just as we ALL in ALL the world, are being deceived, and lied to, by the "man of lawlessness", unto OUR perdition.
I'm exposing the Antichrist Character & nature of the RCC, trying to enlighten people, to the Babylon of ;
Rev 17:5 – “And upon her forehead was written a name, Mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abominations.
"Babylon is portrayed as a corrupt, idolatrous system that leads people astray.
"the mother of harlots" are the apostate "Protestant Christian churches"
Rev 18:2‑3 – “... the great city ... her sins are piled up to heaven … her merchants shall weep and mourn … for no man buyeth their merchandise any more."
The fall of Babylon is linked to its economic and religious influence.
Rev 14:8 – “Babylon the great is fallen…”A prophetic proclamation of judgment against the entity called Babylon.
These passages do not name any specific denomination; the imagery is intentionally symbolic, pointing to a system that exalts itself over God and persecutes true worship. ( NOT the people )
When proponents combine the biblical text, they typically follow this line of reasoning:
- Biblical Symbolism – Revelation describes a powerful, idolatrous “Babylon” that dominates world commerce and religion (Rev 17‑18).
- Historical Correlation – The Roman‑Catholic Church historically wielded immense political, economic, and religious influence, especially during the Middle Ages and the era of the papal states.
- The Classical Protestant Reformers, (& Adventist today) – Explicitly identifies the papacy as the “great harlot” and “Babylon,” providing a prophetic interpretation that aligns the biblical symbols with the Catholic institution.
Which is WHY WE, carrying on the Protestant Reformation message, being commissioned by God, are proclaiming the Three Angels Message of Rev 14
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
v8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
v9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
v10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
v11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.
v12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Babylon = Of Rev 18:3 "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
These following identifications are drawn directly from the Book of Revelation KJV and the core of the Seventh‑day Adventist understanding of the end‑time conflict described in Revelation 13–19, based on scripture and the understanding of Bible Prophecy inherited from the Classical Protestant Reformers.
The Dragon (Satan) empowers the Beast (papal authority); the False Prophet ( today's apostate Protestant churches ) enforces the Beast’s mark; together they constitute the spiritual Babylon that dominates the world.
- Dragon = Satan, the originator of all deception.
- First Beast = Roman‑Catholic papacy (the political‑religious power that claims divine authority).
- Second Beast / False Prophet = Apostate clergy that promulgates the papal “mark” and enforces religious conformity.
- Babylon the Great = The worldwide empire built around the papal system, encompassing its economic, political, and doctrinal influence; it is the “mother of harlots” and will be judged and destroyed at Christ’s second coming.