Do protestants have a reasonable non-Roman-Catholic explanation for John 20:22-23?

[Dino246]

I think you have not read Leviticus. There is a full chapter to describe how Levi priests should dress and act when they serve the tabernacle and later the temple. These are intructions from GOD on how to worship HIM.

I know you make unwarranted assumptions. I suspect I have read Leviticus more than you have.

Apparently you haven’t read the NT enough either, as you apparently don’t know that the Church is not ancient Israel.

 

[Dino246]

Why do Catholic priests need not be identifiable and are literally set apart for performing sacraments.

Cults can do whatever they like; it doesn’t mean they are right.

 

[beechan]

The Church doesn’t have the role of priest as the OT did. There is no need for fancy vestments.

Who said that? Your church pastor?
Any biblical reference??
May be your church pastor is the 'Woodstock Festival' attendee sitting too far away from the stage.

 

[beechan]

I know you make unwarranted assumptions. I suspect I have read Leviticus more than you have.

.

You have read, does not mean you can understand.
In Acts 8,

the eunuch read the scriptures over and over, but he just didn't understand until Philip explained them to him.

 

[beechan]

I know you make unwarranted assumptions. I suspect I have read Leviticus more than you have.

Apparently you haven’t read the NT enough either, as you apparently don’t know that the Church is not ancient Israel.

Show us what you know. See how you would do better than me.
Put something on the table!

 

[beechan]

Cults can do whatever they like; it doesn’t mean they are right.

The Catholic Church is the largest cult then. It has 1.4 billion adherents.
Not any Protestant denomination can have a match.

 

[Dino246]

Who said that? Your church pastor?
Any biblical reference??
May be your church pastor is the 'Woodstock Festival' attendee sitting too far away from the stage.

I’m not going to waste my time trying to prove the Bible doesn’t say something. It’s on you to prove it does.

You can dispense with the personal attacks or you can be banned for promoting Catholicism… your choice. I won’t warn you again.

 

[Dino246]

The Catholic Church is the largest cult then. It has 1.4 billion adherents.
Not any Protestant denomination can have a match.

Do you see the utter stupidity of that boast?

 

[beechan]

I’m not going to waste my time trying to prove the Bible doesn’t say something. It’s on you to prove it does.

Are you covering up your inability to debate?
Like Adam covering his private part with fig leaves.

 

[beechan]

Do you see the utter stupidity of that boast?

1.4 billion figure is a fact, not a boast.

 

[Dino246]

Are you covering up your inability to debate?
Like Adam covering his private part with fig leaves.

Don't be an idiot. To prove the Bible doesn't say something, I would have to post the entire Bible here.

 

[Dino246]

1.4 billion figure is a fact, not a boast.

It was clearly and obviously presented as a boast.

 

[beechan]

Don't be an idiot. To prove the Bible doesn't say something, I would have to post the entire Bible here.

I asked you to give proof on this:

Dino246 said:
The Church doesn’t have the role of priest as the OT did.

You now say the bible doesn't have it.
Is that the Protestants always say: Do not say anything that is not in the bible?


I do find bible reference of ministrial priests:
Acts 14:23
They appointed presbyters for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.
So, while all believers share in Christ’s priesthood, some are ordained to serve and sanctify the community in His name.

 

[PaulThomson]

When the priest is representing Jesus in a scarament, he is superior.
Just like a general in uniform, he is superior over a private.

If I dress up as a general, am I really superior to soldiers? You are assuming that clergy have authority when wearing distinct garments. Where in the Bible do garments impart authority? According to Jesus, submitting to God's authority is what gives one authority. Under the old covenant, the priests were commanded by God to wear particular apparel when serving in the tabernacle/temple, and obeying God in what to wear and how to minister gave them the right to do their priestly duties. There are no ubiquitously applied new covenant commands in scripture regarding garments Christians should wear when serving God.

 

[PaulThomson]

I see Catholics have a more profound reason in 'going to church': to have the bread from heaven clearly taught by Jesus!

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

The bread from heaven is the physically manifest flesh of Jesus. That includes all believers in the assembly who are flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone (Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.) Eating the bread is a profession that we recognise all who love and follow Jesus as being Christ's body, so that how I treat a Christian is how I am treating Christ, and eating the bread with others confesses that the other communicants are in my heart and I am in their hearts. This is why we need to only take communion if we are treating other Christians as Christ's body. We will be exposing ourselves to discipline by the tormentors who will be allowed to inflict sickness or death if we partake of communion with a spirit that rejects other believers, which is to reject Christ's body while professing to be a member of Christ.

 

[beechan]

If I dress up as a general, am I really superior to soldiers? You are assuming that clergy have authority when wearing distinct garments. Where in the Bible do garments impart authority? According to Jesus, submitting to God's authority is what gives one authority. Under the old covenant, the priests were commanded by God to wear particular apparel when serving in the tabernacle/temple, and obeying God in what to wear and how to minister gave them the right to do their priestly duties. There are no ubiquitously applied new covenant commands in scripture regarding garments Christians should wear when serving God.

You are heavily brain washed with the doctrine 'sola scriptura'.
The claim: “If it’s not in the Bible, it’s not legitimate.”

2 Thessalonians 2:15
“So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
Paul clearly says oral teachings (Tradition) are equally binding as written Scripture.
This alone refutes the idea that “if it’s not written, it’s illegitimate.”

If “only the Bible” made things legitimate, then:
The apostles’ first listeners (before anything was written) had no true Christianity — which is absurd.

 

[beechan]

The bread from heaven is the physically manifest flesh of Jesus. That includes all believers in the assembly who are flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone (Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.) Eating the bread is a profession that we recognise all who love and follow Jesus as being Christ's body, so that how I treat a Christian is how I am treating Christ, and eating the bread with others confesses that the other communicants are in my heart and I am in their hearts. This is why we need to only take communion if we are treating other Christians as Christ's body. We will be exposing ourselves to discipline by the tormentors who will be allowed to inflict sickness or death if we partake of communion with a spirit that rejects other believers, which is to reject Christ's body while professing to be a member of Christ.

Do you mean Christians are eating each other when receiving Euchrist?

 

[Gideon300]

When the priest is representing Jesus in a scarament, he is superior.
Just like a general in uniform, he is superior over a private.

Rubbish. Catholicism creates an entirely false division between clergy (no such thing in the NT) and laity. It is plain from God's word (not that it matters to the Catholic organisation) that all believers are priests and ministers. Jesus is the Great High Priest.

As an aside, this is one of the areas that Protestants have failed to change. The Protestant church still (mostly) retains the pyramid structure of Catholicism. It hinders Christians becoming mature.

The "us" and "them" attitude is a way of controlling people. It belittles the saints (all believers are saints).

 

[Gideon300]

You are heavily brain washed with the doctrine 'sola scriptura'.
The claim: “If it’s not in the Bible, it’s not legitimate.”

2 Thessalonians 2:15
“So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
Paul clearly says oral teachings (Tradition) are equally binding as written Scripture.
This alone refutes the idea that “if it’s not written, it’s illegitimate.”

If “only the Bible” made things legitimate, then:
The apostles’ first listeners (before anything was written) had no true Christianity — which is absurd.

The first Christians had the Bible. It was what is wrongly called the Old Testament.

"Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself." Luke 24: 25-27

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." 2 Timothy 3:16

"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ." Colossians 2:8

What we call the New Testament is, of course, also the revelation of God to the apostles. So no, Paul did not preach human traditions. It was that which was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit, as it was with all the apostles. Does God speak the same way now? Yes. However, there is never a contradiction between God's word and any revelation that people may claim to have. That includes anyone from the pope to the Sunday School teacher in the local Baptist church.

 

[Dino246]

I asked you to give proof on this:
"The Church doesn’t have the role of priest as the OT did. "
You now say the bible doesn't have it.

It is illogical to request evidence for the non-existence of something. The Bible says nothing about the Church having the role of priest as the OT Levitical system had. In order for me to prove that, I would have to quote the entire New Testament. If you think it does, then you prove it by quoting it.

I do find bible reference of ministrial priests:
Acts 14:23
They appointed presbyters for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, commended them to the Lord in whom they had put their faith.
So, while all believers share in Christ’s priesthood, some are ordained to serve and sanctify the community in His name.

A presbyter is not a priest. A presbyter has no authority over the Church, and has limited authority over a local congregation only as one of a group of presbyters (elders or overseers). The presbyter does not act as a mediator between men and God. The presbyter does not claim to be God's representative to the people.

So, you've got nothing.