Does God want you poor and sick?

[atwhatcost]

Ps 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Honestly, at your first post I didn't get if you are someone who believes no believer should be poor or sick or if you don't believe that. I've been checking out what you've said since. I still don't know.

So call me thickheaded, but can you tell me that much at least?

 

[crossnote]

I can't help but think no one can tell it's a dead horse by what's left over after this much beating on it. It's more like a puddle of thick year-old spaghetti sauce on the ground getting whooped.

And they say spaghetti is better the 2nd time around. Well around here we serve the puddle up at least 30 times.

 

[crossnote]

Could be, after all they rejected his SON.

Pleeze. These were Jewish Christians. They did not reject their Messiah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah but what you and others seem to suggest is that they were not victorious despite the afflictions they suffered.
You espouse a doctrine that states I should wallow in my afflictions to show the Lord how humble I can be!!!
That is not even close to what Jesus taught or preached.

Paul suffered greatly, but he was never filled with false humility, he never wallowed in his trials!. You never saw him moping around saying woe are my afflictions but Jesus loves me and I am showing him how humble I am

He glorified God in his weakness, smoked the enemy, spread the Gospel and made tents!

Psalm 34.19 says:
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
but the Lord delivers him out of them all.

I think we need to see how paul handled being shipwrecked, Stoned and left for dead, Poor, We assume a major eye issue (almost blind?) and other things.

"I consider it but a momentary light affliction"

Telling people if they are sick or poor they are not trusting God is not the answer. God will allow sickness and not everyone to be wealthy. Letting people know eternity is what matters, this life is but a blink of an eye, and God offers his rest in ALL AREAS so they too can consider pain and suffering a momentary light affliction is what we need to do. Not say God does not will us to be poor or sick. God may will us to be ill to help others who are ill..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me ask, can harboring unforgiveness have a a physical affect on your body?

what does that have to do with a hill of beans? of course it does.

Does that mean God does not want anyone to have cancer or anything else? why do we want to get all jewish and say if your ill you must have sinned. thats not of God.

 

[JesusLives]

Because of the fallen world we live in we have sick and poor people and even some of us might be sick and poor....But you don't have to be either of these in order to be a Christian. It just seems like people in need are more receptive to the work of the Holy Spirit as they see a need in their life and willing to accept salvation.

Lots of the time rich and healthy folks don't see a need and life goes on. But anyone can be a Christian if they will humble their heart be willing to repent and accept the gift God offers everyone on the planet. It just appears that the poor and sick are more willing to do that.

Thank God for all who are willing to submit themselves to the Spirit of God allowing the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts accepting Jesus as their Savior no matter health or financial status....Jesus died for all the people in the world but not all will reach out accept and take the gift that is offered to them.....I pray that they would so that none would be lost.

 

[Mitspa]

Honestly, at your first post I didn't get if you are someone who believes no believer should be poor or sick or if you don't believe that. I've been checking out what you've said since. I still don't know.

So call me thickheaded, but can you tell me that much at least?

I just know and believe the bible...do you think that after Jesus promises that the Father will feed us that He wanted us to think that means we are supposed to go around begging for food?

 

[Mitspa]

I think we need to see how paul handled being shipwrecked, Stoned and left for dead, Poor, We assume a major eye issue (almost blind?) and other things.

"I consider it but a momentary light affliction"

Telling people if they are sick or poor they are not trusting God is not the answer. God will allow sickness and not everyone to be wealthy. Letting people know eternity is what matters, this life is but a blink of an eye, and God offers his rest in ALL AREAS so they too can consider pain and suffering a momentary light affliction is what we need to do. Not say God does not will us to be poor or sick. God may will us to be ill to help others who are ill..

Sure...telling a poor or sick person they don't know or love God is cruel and ungodly in itself. But to tell them that they cannot hope in the promises of God is just as cruel and ungodly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sure...telling a poor or sick person they don't know or love God is cruel and ungodly in itself. But to tell them that they cannot hope in the promises of God is just as cruel and ungodly.

and who in their right mind would tell them they can have no hope?

Now if the hope your offering them is wealth and lack of physical ailment, then we have another issue. Because God never promised either.

 

[p_rehbein]

Pleeze. These were Jewish Christians. They did not reject their Messiah.

Wait.............Whut?

There were JEWISH believers? Wow.............

 

[Mitspa]

and who in their right mind would tell them they can have no hope?

Now if the hope your offering them is wealth and lack of physical ailment, then we have another issue. Because God never promised either.

The hope is based on the promises of God, in His Word. God never promised what? What sickness or ailment is not covered by the stripes of Christ? That don't make no biblical sense to me?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The hope is based on the promises of God, in His Word. God never promised what? What sickness or ailment is not covered by the stripes of Christ? That don't make no biblical sense to me?

No it is not covered by stripes. The healing jesus gave was spiritual healing, he never promised physical healing. this is a twist of the word of God.

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

how do you get health and wealth out of that? Jesus did not die to make us all rich and wealthy, he died so we can be set free from the wrath of God on judgment day, the most important healing we will ever receive, all the rest is nothing.

 

[Mitspa]

No it is not covered by stripes. The healing jesus gave was spiritual healing, he never promised physical healing. this is a twist of the word of God.

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

how do you get health and wealth out of that? Jesus did not die to make us all rich and wealthy, he died so we can be set free from the wrath of God on judgment day, the most important healing we will ever receive, all the rest is nothing.

Oh I see..."spiritual" healing.....Im sorry but that's so unbiblical!

Jesus went about giving "spiritual" healing? No!

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh I see..."spiritual" healing.....Im sorry but that's so unbiblical!

Jesus went about giving "spiritual" healing? No!

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So tell me, why did Paul die. Why are the apostles not here? why do people get old and sick?

You do not believe Jesus died so we can be spiritually healed? I hat to say this, but your scaring me,

why did you go to James, we were in peter, and what ailment the stiped of Christ healed. not what James is talking about! where in peter do you see anything about physical or monetary healing?

James said to pray for people. and they might be healed. we ALWAYS pray in Gods will. I have seen some great healing, even some healings which can ONLY be called miracles (even the doctors said it was a miracle) but I have also seen people not healed. but be used greatly by God in their sickness. Why could they be used by God? Because they considered their ailment a momentary light affliction, they considered God a God who works all things for good. In even if their ailment caused them to God home, God could use their illness and death to serve those people around them.

Sorry, but your health and wealth doctrine is from the pits of hell. You tell someone to come to God and they will get healed. Then when they do not, you tell someone to come to God and give and God will make them well off, and it does not happen, you just turned a soul away from God. period.

 

[CeileDe]

So tell me, why did Paul die. Why are the apostles not here? why do people get old and sick?

You do not believe Jesus died so we can be spiritually healed? I hat to say this, but your scaring me,

why did you go to James, we were in peter, and what ailment the stiped of Christ healed. not what James is talking about! where in peter do you see anything about physical or monetary healing?

James said to pray for people. and they might be healed. we ALWAYS pray in Gods will. I have seen some great healing, even some healings which can ONLY be called miracles (even the doctors said it was a miracle) but I have also seen people not healed. but be used greatly by God in their sickness. Why could they be used by God? Because they considered their ailment a momentary light affliction, they considered God a God who works all things for good. In even if their ailment caused them to God home, God could use their illness and death to serve those people around them.

Sorry, but your health and wealth doctrine is from the pits of hell. You tell someone to come to God and they will get healed. Then when they do not, you tell someone to come to God and give and God will make them well off, and it does not happen, you just turned a soul away from God. period.

That isn't what he is saying at all. Nothing about healing comes from the pits of hell. If you want to believe it was meant as spiritual healing then so be it. But those of us who have seen the healing happen and have seen God take care of us financially are going to remain in Gods promises to us.

You say we pray in Gods will and you are right. But the bible tells us Gods will is for us to be spiritually and physically well. If we turn from God and rebel then yes we will lose His blessing on our lives and we will start seeing struggles in our lives.

You are confusing persecution and someone getting sick. When we are persecuted for the Lord we should rejoice in it and not expect healing. This was what was happening to Paul and a lot of the apostles. We aren't saying we will never die. I will gladly die for the name of Christ. And of course we will get sick but we don't have to just accept it. God is our great provider and this includes health. I have been sick but I notice when I put my faith in God my sickness doesn't last as long and in most cases is gone in a day.

 

[Mitspa]

So tell me, why did Paul die. Why are the apostles not here? why do people get old and sick?

You do not believe Jesus died so we can be spiritually healed? I hat to say this, but your scaring me,

why did you go to James, we were in peter, and what ailment the stiped of Christ healed. not what James is talking about! where in peter do you see anything about physical or monetary healing?

James said to pray for people. and they might be healed. we ALWAYS pray in Gods will. I have seen some great healing, even some healings which can ONLY be called miracles (even the doctors said it was a miracle) but I have also seen people not healed. but be used greatly by God in their sickness. Why could they be used by God? Because they considered their ailment a momentary light affliction, they considered God a God who works all things for good. In even if their ailment caused them to God home, God could use their illness and death to serve those people around them.

Sorry, but your health and wealth doctrine is from the pits of hell. You tell someone to come to God and they will get healed. Then when they do not, you tell someone to come to God and give and God will make them well off, and it does not happen, you just turned a soul away from God. period.

Why did Paul die? Its believed he was killed for the faith, not because he didn't believe Gods promises, but because he did believe and he did heal the sick...same with Peter. They was hated because they did have the power of God not because they didn't.

I believe all power to heal comes from the Spirit of God, not man...if that offends you? Good
And the bible is understood as a complete revelation of the truth...you cant say James is not true because Peter didn't say the same thing...that's silly

And my doctrine is based on the evident truth of Gods word, your desire to call others evil for believing the evident truths of the bible is a sad thing, and I hope you would repent of such an attitude.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why did Paul die? Its believed he was killed for the faith, not because he didn't believe Gods promises, but because he did believe and he did heal the sick...same with Peter. They was hated because they did have the power of God not because they didn't.

So I guess Paul and peter could heal, but not heal themselves. John died alone on an island, poor John, He healed people also. (nice how you tried to use they were killed to back your claim, yet ignored the ones who did not get killed, but died due to disease and sickness. )

Healing is not the issue, the issue is does God promise everyone who gets saved will be physically healed. and made wealthy.

I believe all power to heal comes from the Spirit of God, not man...if that offends you? Good

Obvious you are out to try to win your argument at all costs. You did not read what I posted. or you would have read how I have seen Gods great healing, and now you say it offends me. Again, you worry me, not only do you seem to be on a vendetta, but your vendetta has now blinded you to what people say.

And the bible is understood as a complete revelation of the truth...you cant say James is not true because Peter didn't say the same thing...that's silly

Because you used peter to say God promises health and wealth because of his stripes. and when confronted, instead of showing in context (like I did for you) where I was wrong, you went to james.

Different context. Different setting, Different healing.

And my doctrine is based on the evident truth of Gods word, your desire to call others evil for believing the evident truths of the bible is a sad thing, and I hope you would repent of such an attitude.

No, your doctrine is evil. I have personally witnessed the pain and suffering, and people want nothing to do with God, it gives people a false hope. which God never promised.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That isn't what he is saying at all. Nothing about healing comes from the pits of hell. If you want to believe it was meant as spiritual healing then so be it. But those of us who have seen the healing happen and have seen God take care of us financially are going to remain in Gods promises to us.

Your another one who does not read anything, I did not say I did not believe in supernatural healing, I witnessed it (which if you read you would have seen)

What I am against is the doctrine which states God wishes ALL his children health and wealth, that simply is a false doctrine, period.

You say we pray in Gods will and you are right. But the bible tells us Gods will is for us to be spiritually and physically well. If we turn from God and rebel then yes we will lose His blessing on our lives and we will start seeing struggles in our lives.

No, God never said he willed for us to by physically healed. He wills some to be healed. but others he does not heal. and it is not for us to question why, why not, or anything else. Just trust God (as the many people I have seen do) if he did, there would be no more sickness and no more death, the mere fact no one from christs day is here to discuss this with us is proof of that.

You are confusing persecution and someone getting sick. When we are persecuted for the Lord we should rejoice in it and not expect healing. This was what was happening to Paul and a lot of the apostles. We aren't saying we will never die. I will gladly die for the name of Christ. And of course we will get sick but we don't have to just accept it. God is our great provider and this includes health. I have been sick but I notice when I put my faith in God my sickness doesn't last as long and in most cases is gone in a day.

Oh so pauls illness was from persecution? Oh ok, thanks, thats good to know. so if people get sick it is due to persecution or due to sin, and not because God wanted to use our illness to affect other peoples lives.

I get it now. ok.. whatever!

 

[CeileDe]

Your another one who does not read anything, I did not say I did not believe in supernatural healing, I witnessed it (which if you read you would have seen)

What I am against is the doctrine which states God wishes ALL his children health and wealth, that simply is a false doctrine, period.



No, God never said he willed for us to by physically healed. He wills some to be healed. but others he does not heal. and it is not for us to question why, why not, or anything else. Just trust God (as the many people I have seen do) if he did, there would be no more sickness and no more death, the mere fact no one from christs day is here to discuss this with us is proof of that.



Oh so pauls illness was from persecution? Oh ok, thanks, thats good to know. so if people get sick it is due to persecution or due to sin, and not because God wanted to use our illness to affect other peoples lives.

I get it now. ok.. whatever!

Read Matthew 6:9-13 (Lords Prayer). It says there that it is Gods will that the earth be like Heaven. The next part isn't my research but I agree with it. These are reasons, with scripture, why some aren't healed.

Sin: James 5:16
Faith: Matthew 9:20-22; 9:28-29; Mark 2:5; Luke 17:19; Acts 3:16; James 5:14-16
Ask: John 5:6-7; James 4:2
Deliverance: Acts 10:38; Luke 13

God never said in the Bible He wills only some to be healed. If this scripture exists please provide it. We aren't saying we don't die. That is just your anger speaking there. You are blowing this so out of proportion it is sickening. Why do you go to the extreme when we aren't even saying the things you are claiming we are saying. Everyone on this great earth knows we all die and scripture even states this.

One thing we have to understand as well is anything we do should be for the Glory of God not ourselves. If it doesn't glorify God then we are doing things for the wrong reasons. Does healing glorify God? Sure it does, it continues to prove God is who He said He is and does what He promises in scripture He will do. Does someone being poor and barely making it Glorify God? Not really sure how someone struggling to make it in this world would Glorify God. Now would someone coming out of poverty and doing well for themselves Glorify God? Sure it does, it shows once again God keeps His promises from scripture and He is who He says He is.

I am by no means wealthy but I can tell you this, since I have been faithful to God and putting my trust in Him my finances have doubled. In 2011 my income, to include my wife, was around 50,000. Yes we were doing ok, but we had school debt, a new son and using student loans to help out with things. In 2012 our income together went from 50,000 to around 95,000. I'm not trying to show off or anything but God does bless us with health and finances. Granted we can't just sit around and expect a big pay check in the mail and not do anything. God provided me opportunities to go back to school, get a new job and do well at that job.

Just quit getting defensive and over exaggerating things like you have been.

 

[oldthennew]

[TABLE="class: gr_incontext"]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:24[/TD]
[TD]Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]4250[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:25[/TD]
[TD]Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]6834[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:26[/TD]
[TD]In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]15026[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:27[/TD]
[TD]In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]9913[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:28[/TD]
[TD]Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]9680[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:29[/TD]
[TD]Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]5955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:30[/TD]
[TD]If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]4426[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:31[/TD]
[TD]The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]12382[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:32[/TD]
[TD]In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]8802[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:33[/TD]
[TD]And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands,,,,,,,,,,,
===================================================

as it is written:

MATTHEW 5:10.

Blessed are they that are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]