Does God want you poor and sick?

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oldthennew said:
[TABLE="class: gr_incontext"]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:24[/TD]
[TD]Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]4250[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:25[/TD]
[TD]Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]6834[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:26[/TD]
[TD]In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]15026[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:27[/TD]
[TD]In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]9913[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:28[/TD]
[TD]Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]9680[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:29[/TD]
[TD]Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]5955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:30[/TD]
[TD]If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]4426[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:31[/TD]
[TD]The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]12382[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:32[/TD]
[TD]In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:[/TD]
[TD="class: tdcb"]8802[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2Co 11:33[/TD]
[TD]And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands,,,,,,,,,,,
===================================================

as it is written:

MATTHEW 5:10.

Blessed are they that are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

Ok? And your point is?
 
eternally-gratefull said:
what does that have to do with a hill of beans? of course it does.

Does that mean God does not want anyone to have cancer or anything else? why do we want to get all jewish and say if your ill you must have sinned. thats not of God.
Click to expand...

EG, slow down bro, I am not "after" you.

This means a great deal. SO you agree that harboring unforgiveness can and will have impacts on your physical body.
I am sure you will also agree that harboring unforgiveness is SIN.

You are missing something very important and so do most of the body. If forgiveness can impact your physical body and it is SIN as defined in the Bible. Is it reasonable to then say to someone, if you will allow forgiveness to enter into your heart, you will be healed?

Under this scenario, to which you agree, it is not God's WILL that you be sick or ill.

Furthermore, it is in the utmost perfect love of Christ, that a Pastor should tell someone suffering from this, that it is NOT GOD's will this be upon you, it is a result of YOUR SIN of unforgiveness and root of bitterness, now let me show you a more excellent way through love to get you delivered from this illness.

I cannot count how many church meetings I have been in and someone is suffering with physical pain. The Holy Spirit tells me, that person has bitterness or unforgiveness in their heart and they are ready to be free. I gently and with great love begin ministering to that person and within Milli-seconds, after forgiving whoever hurt them GOD heals and makes them completely whole. You check back with them 6 months and they are on fire and living for God.

You do not see this today, because we have a bunch of educated pulpit managers that do not believe it is their right or responsibility to speak into anyone's life and see things though carnal eyes and not spiritual eyes. That or they will not yield themselves in obedience to the very needed ministry of the Holy Spirit for today.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Your another one who does not read anything, I did not say I did not believe in supernatural healing, I witnessed it (which if you read you would have seen)

What I am against is the doctrine which states God wishes ALL his children health and wealth, that simply is a false doctrine, period.



No, God never said he willed for us to by physically healed. He wills some to be healed. but others he does not heal. and it is not for us to question why, why not, or anything else. Just trust God (as the many people I have seen do) if he did, there would be no more sickness and no more death, the mere fact no one from christs day is here to discuss this with us is proof of that.



Oh so pauls illness was from persecution? Oh ok, thanks, thats good to know. so if people get sick it is due to persecution or due to sin, and not because God wanted to use our illness to affect other peoples lives.

I get it now. ok.. whatever!
Click to expand...

EG,

You continue to say God only wills SOME to be healed. To understand God today we must relate to him by looking at Jesus Christ.

There was only one time recorded in the Bible that Jesus did not heal ALL.

It was when he was in his own home town and the Bible says he could do no mighty works there, except heal a FEW of the sick folk and he left the area. It also says he could not do miracles or heal them ALL because of their UNBELIEF.

Paul's physical condition was a direct result from his persecution and was not used to affect other lives. Show me anywhere in the Bible it says such a thing. When Paul described his illness it was to confirm what the Lord told him in Acts 9. Paul's physical conditions did not affect people for Jesus, it was his message.

Acts 9.15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; [SUP]16 [/SUP]for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
 
Mitspa said:
I just know and believe the bible...do you think that after Jesus promises that the Father will feed us that He wanted us to think that means we are supposed to go around begging for food?
Click to expand...
Side stepping.

Again, I'm thickheaded. How about a yes or no answer to this question?
[h=2]Does God want you poor and sick?[/h]
 
CeileDe said:
Read Matthew 6:9-13 (Lords Prayer). It says there that it is Gods will that the earth be like Heaven. The next part isn't my research but I agree with it. These are reasons, with scripture, why some aren't healed.

Sin: James 5:16
Faith: Matthew 9:20-22; 9:28-29; Mark 2:5; Luke 17:19; Acts 3:16; James 5:14-16
Ask: John 5:6-7; James 4:2
Deliverance: Acts 10:38; Luke 13

God never said in the Bible He wills only some to be healed. If this scripture exists please provide it. We aren't saying we don't die. That is just your anger speaking there. You are blowing this so out of proportion it is sickening. Why do you go to the extreme when we aren't even saying the things you are claiming we are saying. Everyone on this great earth knows we all die and scripture even states this.

One thing we have to understand as well is anything we do should be for the Glory of God not ourselves. If it doesn't glorify God then we are doing things for the wrong reasons. Does healing glorify God? Sure it does, it continues to prove God is who He said He is and does what He promises in scripture He will do. Does someone being poor and barely making it Glorify God? Not really sure how someone struggling to make it in this world would Glorify God. Now would someone coming out of poverty and doing well for themselves Glorify God? Sure it does, it shows once again God keeps His promises from scripture and He is who He says He is.

I am by no means wealthy but I can tell you this, since I have been faithful to God and putting my trust in Him my finances have doubled. In 2011 my income, to include my wife, was around 50,000. Yes we were doing ok, but we had school debt, a new son and using student loans to help out with things. In 2012 our income together went from 50,000 to around 95,000. I'm not trying to show off or anything but God does bless us with health and finances. Granted we can't just sit around and expect a big pay check in the mail and not do anything. God provided me opportunities to go back to school, get a new job and do well at that job.

Just quit getting defensive and over exaggerating things like you have been.
Click to expand...

Getting defensive? I would have to consider you a threat to me to get defensive, for from it.

Here is the facts. I have showed you I have witnessed people deathly ill with Cancer who praised God. and helped other people with cancer up until they died, and praised God all the way.

I have also seen people listen to your truth, who did not get healed. even though they did everythign God asked them to. And ended up mocking God and christianity, because what your belief taught them was a lie.

Scripture does say he does not heel all. Just like lazarus died, and the blind man was blind to give honor and glory to the father, so to are people allowed to get ill today for the same reason.

Not to mention. God does it for our own good. He knows many of us if we were well off financially and health wise, we would never seek him, even if we are saved, why go to God when you do not need him.

sorry, I have witnessed the damage your belief has done, I am not defensive, people get defensve when they are in danger, I am in no danger from your doctrine, i am protecting others who in danger of your doctrine.
 
Joshua_Generation said:
EG, slow down bro, I am not "after" you.

This means a great deal. SO you agree that harboring unforgiveness can and will have impacts on your physical body.
I am sure you will also agree that harboring unforgiveness is SIN.

You are missing something very important and so do most of the body. If forgiveness can impact your physical body and it is SIN as defined in the Bible. Is it reasonable to then say to someone, if you will allow forgiveness to enter into your heart, you will be healed?

Under this scenario, to which you agree, it is not God's WILL that you be sick or ill.

Furthermore, it is in the utmost perfect love of Christ, that a Pastor should tell someone suffering from this, that it is NOT GOD's will this be upon you, it is a result of YOUR SIN of unforgiveness and root of bitterness, now let me show you a more excellent way through love to get you delivered from this illness.

I cannot count how many church meetings I have been in and someone is suffering with physical pain. The Holy Spirit tells me, that person has bitterness or unforgiveness in their heart and they are ready to be free. I gently and with great love begin ministering to that person and within Milli-seconds, after forgiving whoever hurt them GOD heals and makes them completely whole. You check back with them 6 months and they are on fire and living for God.

You do not see this today, because we have a bunch of educated pulpit managers that do not believe it is their right or responsibility to speak into anyone's life and see things though carnal eyes and not spiritual eyes. That or they will not yield themselves in obedience to the very needed ministry of the Holy Spirit for today.
Click to expand...

1. the pastor would be assuming (like the jews) that an illness was because of some sin (like harboring unforgiveness) and even if the person was harboring unforgiveness, it does not mean that is the ROOT cause of his infliction (it may make it worse, but may not be the root cause)
2. This is a dangerous thing to do.
3. Yes it MAY be the cause, but it MAY NOT be the cause, it may be because God wants so use that person to help someone else who will get the same illness.

who are we to judge what God does or what he does it?
 
Joshua_Generation said:
EG,

You continue to say God only wills SOME to be healed. To understand God today we must relate to him by looking at Jesus Christ.

There was only one time recorded in the Bible that Jesus did not heal ALL.

It was when he was in his own home town and the Bible says he could do no mighty works there, except heal a FEW of the sick folk and he left the area. It also says he could not do miracles or heal them ALL because of their UNBELIEF.

Paul's physical condition was a direct result from his persecution and was not used to affect other lives. Show me anywhere in the Bible it says such a thing. When Paul described his illness it was to confirm what the Lord told him in Acts 9. Paul's physical conditions did not affect people for Jesus, it was his message.

Acts 9.15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; [SUP]16 [/SUP]for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
Click to expand...

then go to the hospitals. pray to God, and heal all. (join the faith healers who will not do this)

I am sorry, But if this was the case, then there would be no sickness and no death, we would all be in heaven.

You honestly do not expect me to buy into this stuff do you?
 
eternally-gratefull said:

1. the pastor would be assuming (like the jews) that an illness was because of some sin (like harboring unforgiveness) and even if the person was harboring unforgiveness, it does not mean that is the ROOT cause of his infliction (it may make it worse, but may not be the root cause)
2. This is a dangerous thing to do.
3. Yes it MAY be the cause, but it MAY NOT be the cause, it may be because God wants so use that person to help someone else who will get the same illness.

who are we to judge what God does or what he does it?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think your surrounded by some of Job's comforters.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
then go to the hospitals. pray to God, and heal all. (join the faith healers who will not do this)

I am sorry, But if this was the case, then there would be no sickness and no death, we would all be in heaven.

You honestly do not expect me to buy into this stuff do you?
Click to expand...
my wife bought into it before I met her, it is the source for much guilty feelings due to "not enough faith, or impure motives' yada yada"
 
crossnote said:
my wife bought into it before I met her, it is the source for much guilty feelings due to "not enough faith, or impure motives' yada yada"
Click to expand...

I have seen so many people walk away from God and mock him for this false system.. We need more jobs, and less of his friends.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Getting defensive? I would have to consider you a threat to me to get defensive, for from it.

Here is the facts. I have showed you I have witnessed people deathly ill with Cancer who praised God. and helped other people with cancer up until they died, and praised God all the way.

I have also seen people listen to your truth, who did not get healed. even though they did everythign God asked them to. And ended up mocking God and christianity, because what your belief taught them was a lie.

Scripture does say he does not heel all. Just like lazarus died, and the blind man was blind to give honor and glory to the father, so to are people allowed to get ill today for the same reason.

Not to mention. God does it for our own good. He knows many of us if we were well off financially and health wise, we would never seek him, even if we are saved, why go to God when you do not need him.

sorry, I have witnessed the damage your belief has done, I am not defensive, people get defensve when they are in danger, I am in no danger from your doctrine, i am protecting others who in danger of your doctrine.
Click to expand...

Well I guess we agree to disagree. Good luck with whatever you do.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
lol.. I am sure that is how they would take it, and only part time. with full benefits..lol
Click to expand...

You think you are so holy but in actuality you are full of bitterness and mockery. I see no love coming from any of your arguments, just putting people down with your sickening attitude.
 
If God doesn't love poor people why did He make so many of them? I wonder if God sewed pockets into the animal skins for Adam and Eve?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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