Does Jesus and Paul contradict each other?
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To follow Paul according to the Palinites I would need to disregard the law and prophets to come under grace.
No those who follow Paul.
Let me give some examples from scripture.
- Malachi 3:6: "I the Lord do not change".
- Ezekiel 18:32: "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live”"
- (Ezekiel 18:32).
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No those who follow Paul.
Let me give some examples from scripture.- Malachi 3:6: "I the Lord do not change".
- Ezekiel 18:32: "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live”"
- (Ezekiel 18:32).
- 1 Corinthians 1: 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[b] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
- For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings (Hos. 6:6).
‘The multitude of your sacrifices—what are they to me?’ says the LORD. ‘I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats’ (Isa 1:11).
Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them (Amos 5:22).
With what shall I come before the LORD and bow down before the exalted God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? [Implied NO!] He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God (Mic 6:6, 8).
Ephesians 1:7
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.
- John 14:21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” - Romans 7
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Well, I encourage you to read the TOP thread from the beginning and post to me when you find one that is confusing,
then I will try to explain it/harmonize it with the TOJ.
Best to let God be the judge of that, since He went to a lot of trouble providing you Paul after Jesus.
Paul’s understanding of Pauls gospel, that by Christ’s death and resurrection a person is put into a restored relationship with God. He had several ways of explaining how it worked (the “judicial” model; the “participationist” model; and the other models). But in all of these ways, it was Jesus’ death and resurrection that mattered. It was not keeping the Jewish law. It was not knowing or following Jesus’ teaching. It was not Jesus’ miracles. It was not … anything else. It was Jesus’ death and resurrection. I disagree with Paul's teachings. They contradict Jesus the law and prophets. I am not in need of saving or depraved. If I love Jesus then I will do what he says. If not then Jesus does not know me. Paul does not teach you to follow Jesus. Paul teaches you to follow Paul. When I fist asked does Paul contradict Jesus all I got was quotes from Paul. Obviously most of you dont know what Jesus teaches and you take Pauls teaching as the words of God.
John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. (Jesus said this)
Hebrews 10:20
by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, (may or may not be Paul who wrote this)
Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (Paul definitely wrote this)
The Law had done it's job, it was time to move on to the next phase of God's redemptive plan.
This isnt what Jesus taught. Only one verse is Jesus words and you don't understand what hes saying.
So I don't understand Jesus means the Christian walk is one by faith in the word with the filling of the Spirit?
I already told you, Jesus taught as a rabbi but He also prepared His disciples for the new way to come.
Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
There is no conflict between Jesus and Paul. Paul taught the new way of living that Christ inaugurated through His death and Resurrection. It was time to move on beyond Torah keeping for the Gentiles were about to enter.
Different courses for different horses.
Isaiah 58:2
Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.
Matthew 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
In John 4:23, Jesus said that the time is coming when true worshipers will worship the Father "in spirit and truth". This means worship is no longer tied to a specific physical location like a mountain or the temple in Jerusalem, but is a spiritual, heartfelt communion with God. To worship "in spirit" means the worship comes from your innermost being, activated by the Holy Spirit, while to worship "in truth" means worshiping the true God as He has revealed Himself in Scripture.
News flash! We are not under the old testament law
Jesus tells us to judge righteously
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
The only way to judge righteously is to compare what people do and say to what God's Word teaches.
He also warns that we will be judged with the judgement that we judge with (reap what we sow - Gal 6:7,8)
Matthew 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
So, if someone is believing or doing something that is obviously in opposition to what God's Word teaches... it's not "judging" them to point out what they believe or do is in opposition to what God's Word teaches
By the same token, we should apply God's Word to ourselves and we should actually judge ourselves
1 Corinthians 11:31
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
The purpose of this is to submit ourselves to the Lord so that He does not have to judge us as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 11:32.... the Lord would much rather have us come to Him in submission and ask / believe for His leading / teaching so we can keep ourselves on the path that leads to life and not get off on the path that leads to death (separation from God)
I always forgive all that have wronged me whether it be real or imagined.
Correcting someone who is walking false doctrine is not related to refusing to forgive
Maybe someday you'll grow up and start believing everything the Lord says in His Word and stop being a cherry picka
Hebrews 3:5,6 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.
Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)
OK, so when you sin you go out and whack some poor animal.
Got it.
I'll alert the authorities in your area and let them know you are killing animals so they can take you in to custody and hopefully get you the institutional help you so desperately need
Which is pretty much what I said, worshiping in the filling (under the influence) of the Spirit in accordance with the truth of the word which is where we rest in faith.
It's a new way of living which Jesus said was coming and Paul preached. No conflict between the two.
You can judge thats fine. In the same way and with same mesure you will be judged. So yes make sure its righteous or your in big trouble. God was always against animal sacrifice. If you follow Paul then through Jesus you follow what the prophets instructed to not partake in.
Only those cherry pickers who don't accept the whole counsel of God.
You people obviously know who you are, otherwise you won't be barki!
Post #134 was a great post!
Both very true and entertaining too!
Feel free to continue "learning" from atheists.
Thru the power of the Holy Spirit however we are called to walk in the Law of Christ which is what the New Testament teaches concerning the old covenant being done away with by the Lord and His establishing the New Covenant.
And, 9 of the 10 Commandments can be found under the Law of Christ in the New Covenant so you eternal security people best continue submitting yourself to the leading of the Holy Spirit and not be out doing sinful behavior as we know you people like to engage in after having been falsely taught one can never lose their salvation even if they lived like the devil.
You enjoy the ecumenical movement and believe Jesus Christ is not the ONLY way to salvation where all other religions are accepted by God???
Paul’s understanding of his gospel, that by Christ’s death and resurrection a person is put into a restored relationship with God. He had several ways of explaining how it worked (the “judicial” model; the “participationist” model; and the other models I described). But in all of these ways, it was Jesus’ death and resurrection that mattered. It was not keeping the Jewish law. It was not knowing or following Jesus’ teaching. It was not Jesus’ miracles. It was not … anything else. It was Jesus’ death and resurrection. I, Jesus, the law, and prophets all disagree with this.
Theres really not much we disagree with. What do you think Paul was trying to teach?