Enduring to the end.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#1
Scourging, or whipping, is a corporal punishment. This form of punishment was common among the Jews. In Deuteronomy 25:1-3, judges were to justify the righteous and condemn the wicked. "Forty stripes (lashes) he (the judge) may give him, and not (to) exceed this" Forty, and no more.

There were two ways of whipping a man with a lash: one with thongs or whips made of rope ends or straps of leather, the other with rods or tree branches. Five times did Paul receive thirty-nine stripes from the Jews, 2 Corinthians 11:24. These beatings occurred in the Jewish synagogues and before the Jewish courts of judgment.

The whips with which these stripes were given consisted of three separate cords; each stroke counted as three stripes. Thirteen strikes made 39 stripes, beyond which the punishment never went. Paul also tells us that he was beaten with rods, namely, by the Roman lictors, at the command of the presiding magistrates.

This form of punishment would break almost anyone when administered even once—a strong man, possibly two or three times. But Paul was beaten five times and also struck with rods. This degree of punishment would bring most men to their knees, pleading for mercy and willing to acknowledge their crime or even one not committed. This form of excruciating pain will break the body down, as well as the will. It was for these reasons the Jews and the Romans used scourging.

But Paul did not break? No, he remained strong because of his faith in God. What is it that made Paul so strong? The Lord gave Paul a command to preach the gospel of Christ to the Gentiles, so he remained under the protection of the Lord.

And what motivated Paul to continue? I have my thoughts on the subject. Paul had several experiences that hopefully none of us have ever had.

Galatians 1:16, Paul claims he did not confer with flesh and blood (man) but with the glorified Christ. He spoke with Him on the road to Damascus. But this is only part of his story. He claims,

2 Corinthians 12:1-5, to have been taken into the third heaven, where the Father and Son reign. He could not say if he was in the body or had an out-of-the-body experience, but there is one certainty: Paul was taken into the third heaven. He heard in heaven what he claims to be "Unspeakable words," which were not lawful for him or any other man to utter.

2 Corinthians 5:8, Paul writes that because of what he witnessed in heaven, he would have been "willingly rather be absent from his body (dead) and to be present with the Lord."

When Paul wrote the above, the Lord had already ascended into heaven to prepare a place for us.

So, whatever Paul heard and saw, God designed it specifically for him. So, Paul endured these many punishments at the hands of the Jews and Romans because he had witnessed in heaven what awaited him if he remained faithful. Thank God these unspeakable things await every devoted believer.
 
Dec 3, 2023
440
77
28
#2
If a believer lives at the end of the world,It's like a TV series walking dead,Moral corruption exposes human nature,How many believers do you think can endure to the end?So the prophecy says that this day is short.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#3
Matthew wrote, in 7:14, "Narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."

And if we can properly define, "Saving faith" that would help answer the question you asked, "How many believers do you think can endure to the end?
 

Aussie52

Active member
Aug 31, 2022
117
103
43
#4
Matthew wrote, in 7:14, "Narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it."

And if we can properly define, "Saving faith" that would help answer the question you asked, "How many believers do you think can endure to the end?
Saving faith is NOT the act of the moment, but the habit of a lifetime.
 
Mar 9, 2023
62
43
18
#5
Faith can be an act of the moment. I still remember the the day, date, time in which I by faith accepted Jesus as my Saviour & Lord. -There is no set rule as to how people are saved. God deals with everyone individually. But I could not call faith a habit. We are called upon to exercise and work on our faith continually.
 

Aussie52

Active member
Aug 31, 2022
117
103
43
#6
Salvation is conditioned on faith in Christ. Not just when we were first converted but a faith that is continuous over a life time. That is what is meant by," He who endures to the end shall be saved".
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,048
1,030
113
New Zealand
#7
Salvation is conditioned on faith in Christ. Not just when we were first converted but a faith that is continuous over a life time. That is what is meant by," He who endures to the end shall be saved".
The verse 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' is not about receiving eternal salvation. It's deliverance from trials and tribulations during end times. It's the other meaning of 'save' in regards to salvaging life.. rather than the soul.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#9
Faith can be an act of the moment. I still remember the the day, date, time in which I by faith accepted Jesus as my Saviour & Lord. -There is no set rule as to how people are saved. God deals with everyone individually. But I could not call faith a habit. We are called upon to exercise and work on our faith continually.
And so, we grow in our faith.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,335
521
113
#10
The verse 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' is not about receiving eternal salvation. It's deliverance from trials and tribulations during end times. It's the other meaning of 'save' in regards to salvaging life.. rather than the soul.
I can see it now..."he that endureth until the end shall be ... salvaged", fit only for the junk yard, LOL!
 

Kroogz

Active member
Dec 5, 2023
596
209
43
#12
Saving faith is NOT the act of the moment, but the habit of a lifetime.
Acts 16:31,John 3:16 the MOMENT we trust in Christ we are saved. The Lord Jesus Christ is in the habit of saving us for ETERNITY.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,436
7,253
113
#14
The verse 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' is not about receiving eternal salvation. It's deliverance from trials and tribulations during end times. It's the other meaning of 'save' in regards to salvaging life.. rather than the soul.
Correct.......

This is for Israelites (and gentiles inevitably) who come to faith.....AFTER THE RAPTURE.
Our eschatology ends when we are pre-trib snatched to the Fathers house for our 7 year honeymoon while the trib rages upon the "earth dwellers".

The dynamics after rapture is quite different than it was for the Church.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,971
1,397
113
Midwest
#15
Saving faith is NOT the act of the moment, but the habit of a lifetime.
Precious friend, you do realize, of course, that their are
Three Different 'deliverances' From God, eh?:

Borrowed from God's Simple Will!:

(RDF = Rightly Divided From):

The Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation:

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should
not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who
Delivered us from So Great A Death,...
(RDF)

...and Doth Deliver:...
(RDF)

...in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us;"
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)
----------------------------
E-x-p-a-n-d-e-d version:

Precious friend(s), Is not the Solution to Confusion recog-
nizing These Three, And, Also, God's Differences Between
"His Relationship With us," And (RDF) "our fellowship with Him!"?

God's Will, Today, Under His Pure Grace? Very Simply:

► faith (100% trust/belief with the heart!) ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God Delivered us from So Great A Death...":

God Establishes His Eternal Relationship
With
those who humbly repent and [ One-Time Only! ]

believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The Lord Jesus Christ,
His Death (
Precious BLOOD ) , Burial, And His Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!

(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits
Of His
ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23; Romans 5:1)

This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [ Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8) =
Justification
and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24)

(More Biblical Confirmation is here: God's Eternal Assurance!
And here:

God's Operation On All His New-born babes In Christ!)

► One-Time faith ◄
God's Eternal Justification/Relationship Is First, And, Then:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

►► life-long "faith, which worketh By love!" ◄◄:
(2) Present Tense = "...God Doth Deliver us...":

All believers Should do "good works" {Which will Never
Equal Christ's Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In Christ Jesus, to perform
for Him, having "been Called into fellowship With Him!"
(
Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9) Amen?:

We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This
Should Be a lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing,
being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2),
for Grace Deliverance From the power of sin!}
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:

(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:

All Of His Law, In "One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"​

(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:

"Study to shew thyself Approved Unto God, a work-man​
that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly
Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15)

Eternal Results: reward (good works Required!) [or loss (bad works!) *]
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15), ruling and reigning [or not *] With Christ, Which
Will
Finally Be At The Judgment Day!

* More study: Finishing The Race

►► life-long "faith, which worketh By love!" ◄◄:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

►►► Blessed HOPE! [ life-long faith/hope Turns to "sight"!] ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":

Christ's Glorification of All "members" Of His Body!!
{This Is Eternal
Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c). Hallelujah! Praise His Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion:

BIG Differences Between the Three tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And (RDF) our fellowship! Correct?

Amen.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#18
Until the last supper, who would have thought Judas would have abandoned the Lord. And in the Garden of Gethsemane when they came to arrest the Lord, all the apostles abandoned the Lord?

Mark 14:50, "And the (apostles) ALL forsook him (Jesus) and fled." Forsook is to abandon.

2 Timothy 4:10, Paul said, "Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world." Verse 16, "My first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
So, when we talk about saving faith, who can describe it, who can read the heart of a man except the Lord?

We have become soft, ask yourself, how much punishment and torture could I take? If my life or one of my children's lives were threatened, would I denounce the Lord?

Hopefully, we may never be put that test, but many have, some survived, many fell.
Your thoughts:
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#19
Would your faith have survived the Catacombs?
The Catacombs of Rome were used extensively during the various persecutions that followed and harassed the Christian Church from the time of Nero to that of Diocletian. The early Christians used these dreary crypts for several reasons:
  1. To gather together and celebrate their worship services.
  2. In times of persecution, they were a safe place.
  3. To bury the bodies of those passing saints and martyrs of the church.
They were gallery networks, usually intersecting at right angles, and most radiated from a common center. The average height was eight feet, and the width was three to five feet. More than 500 miles in total length, it has been estimated to have contained over 6 million bodies. The most celebrated of the Catacombs are those of the Via Appia, a short distance from Rome.

In Rome, the tunnels touched all of the Seven Hills. They were low, dark corridors or vaulted halls excavated in soft volcanic rock; the lateral walls of which apertures made for the reception of the dead.

The network of galleries usually intersected one another at right angles, and most radiated from a common center. The average height was eight feet, and the width was three to five feet. More than 500 miles in total length, it has been estimated to have contained over 6 million bodies. It was a difficult life for first and second-century Christians. We can thank the Lord for keeping us safe here in America, and that our faith is not tested to its limits.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,213
6,548
113
#20
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And because iniquity ... - The word "iniquity" here seems to include the cruelty of the Jews and Romans in their persecutions; the betraying of Christians by those who professed to be such; and the pernicious errors of false prophets arid others. The effect of all this would be, that the ardor of feeling of many Christians would be lessened. The word "wax" means to "become." It is an old Saxon word, not used now in this sense except in the Bible. The fear of death, and the deluding influence of false teachers, would lessen the zeal of many timid and weak professors; perhaps, also, of many real but feeble Christians.

Geneva Study Bible
{3} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(3) The gospel will spread abroad, angering the world and the devil ever so much: and those who continually believe will be saved.


Pulpit Commentary

Verse 13. - He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved (Matthew 10:22). Here is a note of consolation amid the refrain of woe. Patience and perseverance shall be crowned at the last. "The end" means primarily the destruction of Jerusalem, and the salvation promised is safety in that day of peril. It is believed that no Christians perished in the siege or after it (see ver. 16). But τέλος, being here used without the article (differently from vers. 6 and, 14), must not be restricted to one allusion, but must be taken more generally, as indeed a universal axiom, equivalent to "finally," as long as endurance is needed. And the salvation must refer to the soul's sentence at the last day, not to any mere safety of body and life. What the maxim says is this: patient continuance in well doing, resignation under persecutions and afflictions, holding fast the one faith even though it lead to the martyr's death, - this shall win the crown of eternal blessedness. The Christian must not be led astray by false teachers nor offended by the prevalence of scandals, nor let his love be chilled, if he would gain the reward, share in Messiah's glory, and save his soul. Matthew 24:13